Ed Cryptozoology and megafauna

I didn't know it but people still claim to see mermaids. From Wikipedia...


...Two sightings were reported in Canada near Vancouver and Victoria—one from sometime between 1870 and 1890, the other from 1967.

During World War II in 1943, Japanese soldiers witnessed several mermaids on the shores of the Kei Islands. They reported seeing creatures swimming in the water—and one sighting on the beach—which had pink skin and spikes along their head. These creatures reportedly were about 150 centimeters tall and had limbs and faces that were similar to that of a human but a mouth like a carp. The locals called them Orang Ikan, which means "fish man" in Malay. Several of these sightings occurred and were reported to Sergeant Taro Horiba, who asked the locals about it and learned that they sometimes got caught in the nets. The locals promised to send word to the Sergeant next time one was caught. Eventually, one of the creatures was found dead on the shore and the Sergeant was allowed to examine it. Being convinced, he returned to Japan and tried to convince scientists to go study them but he was never believed.

In August 2009, after dozens of people reported seeing a mermaid leaping out of the water and doing aerial tricks, the Israeli coastal town of Kiryat Yam offered a $1 million award for proof of the mermaid. In February 2012, work on two reservoirs near Gokwe and Mutare in Zimbabwe stopped when workers refused to continue, stating that mermaids had hounded them away from the sites. It was reported by Samuel Sipepa Nkomo, the water resources minister.

On January 9, 2013, during an episode of Mistero broadcast by Italia 1, images were shown of a purported mermaid's corpse on a Sri Lankan beach.

Then you have the US Govt doing this...

In July 2012, the National Ocean Service (a branch of National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) stated that "no evidence of aquatic humanoids has ever been found". The statement was a response to public inquiries following Mermaids: The Body Found, a pseudo-documentary television film which aired in May 2012 on Animal Planet and which some had mistaken for a completely factual documentary.
 
I do not for one second think that a hunting group of Native Americans would think of a 600 lb Bigfoot as anything other than food and clothing.

Really? Based on eyewitness accounts, that's easier said than done. By the way, many Native Americans accept Bigfoot as a real creature. Do you think they're all delusional?

I'm open-minded on the topic. We don't know everything. We haven't been everywhere. Here's a very large primate that was discovered in 1902.

http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/scientific-classification.htm

The mountain gorilla was first discovered by a German officer, named Captain Robert von Beringe in 1902. Prior to this time, only lowland gorillas were known to exist. The mountain gorilla subspecies name is derived from Captain Robert von Beringe's last name (Gorilla beringei beringei).
 
Really? Based on eyewitness accounts, that's easier said than done.
NA hunters, settlers, homesteaders common harvested Grizzlies much larger than 600lbs for all sorts of reasons, extirpating them in many cases.
By the way, many Native Americans accept Bigfoot as a real creature. Do you think they're all delusional?
Native Americans believe in lots of legendary stuff; makes them good storytellers, not delusional.
I'm open-minded on the topic.
Me too, but really, where's the monkey?
We don't know everything. We haven't been everywhere.
Nope. But we have been in the places Bigoot is said to live. No monkey.
Here's a very large primate that was discovered in 1902 . . .
Where's the large North American primate that's allegedly everywhere?
 
Really? Based on eyewitness accounts, that's easier said than done. By the way, many Native Americans accept Bigfoot as a real creature. Do you think they're all delusional?

*Sighs* Wrong does not mean delusional.

We don't know everything.

Anti-intellectualism distilled down to it's purest form.

We haven't been everywhere. Here's a very large primate that was discovered in 1902.

In 1902 pre-Sahara Africa was mostly unexplored by Europeans.

2013 Pacific Northwest is not. Your comparison is flawed.
 
*Sighs* Wrong does not mean delusional.



Anti-intellectualism distilled down to it's purest form.



In 1902 pre-Sahara Africa was mostly unexplored by Europeans.

2013 Pacific Northwest is not. Your comparison is flawed.

Please. No sighing. :D

You believe the Native Americans are wrong. You don't know that for sure.

A flawed comparison? Maybe. Or maybe Bigfoot is more elusive than a gorilla.
 
NA hunters, settlers, homesteaders common harvested Grizzlies much larger than 600lbs for all sorts of reasons, extirpating them in many cases.

Native Americans believe in lots of legendary stuff; makes them good storytellers, not delusional.

Me too, but really, where's the monkey?

Nope. But we have been in the places Bigoot is said to live. No monkey.

Where's the large North American primate that's allegedly everywhere?

Good point about grizzlies, but Bigfoot might have more brains than a grizzly. That's my guess anyway.

You're apparently one of those people who will only accept Bigfoot when we have a body on a slab. That's okay with me.

I'm not aware of anyone who claims Bigfoot is everywhere. However, I admit I'm only slightly interested in the topic so I could be wrong on that point.
 
Good point about grizzlies, but Bigfoot might have more brains than a grizzly. That's my guess anyway.

So much smarter that other than campfire stories, not a single specimen has ever been collected?

Smarter than the Native Americans who failed to evade the Europeans?
 
You believe the Native Americans are wrong. You don't know that for sure.

And "You don't know for sure." Can you please call science arrogant and dogmatic so I can complete my "Anti-intellectual apologetic Woo excuses" Bingo Card?

A flawed comparison? Maybe. Or maybe Bigfoot is more elusive than a gorilla.

To avoid hard evidence for close to 2 centuries in a densely populated area? What are Figboots ghosts of ninjas outfitted with Predator cloaking devices?
 
So much smarter that other than campfire stories, not a single specimen has ever been collected?

Smarter than the Native Americans who failed to evade the Europeans?

Maybe rarity is another factor. Remember the "extinct" coelacanth? Oops! It turns out to be alive today.

Bigfoot sounds like a Gigantopithecus that forgot to go extinct. :D
 
And "You don't know for sure." Can you please call science arrogant and dogmatic so I can complete my "Anti-intellectual apologetic Woo excuses" Bingo Card?



To avoid hard evidence for close to 2 centuries in a densely populated area? What are Figboots ghosts of ninjas outfitted with Predator cloaking devices?

LOL

They don't let you out very often, do they?
 
Maybe rarity is another factor. Remember the "extinct" coelacanth? Oops! It turns out to be alive today.

Bigfoot sounds like a Gigantopithecus that forgot to go extinct. :D

but somebody actually found the fish. Not so for the monkey suit.
 
Maybe rarity is another factor. Remember the "extinct" coelacanth? Oops! It turns out to be alive today.

Bigfoot sounds like a Gigantopithecus that forgot to go extinct. :D

Rare, yet everywhere. "Reports" from every state save Hawaii.

But no hint of a monkey. Not a whiff beyond campfire stories.
 
Actually, I like the fact that the coelecanth was brought up. I think it nicely illustrates a mis-understanding involved when it comes to discovering species (or finding species thought extinct).

It was absolutely NOT a case of "no one had ever seen one, then somebody found one". It was a combination of factors:
1. The species was thought extinct, so there was never much effort to find them (why look for something that died out millions of years ago?).
2. It wasn't as if no one had seen them, but rather no one recognized them. The local fishermen would often have these fish in their catch, but they aren't paleontologists or icthyologists (sp?). It was just a wierd fish.
3. When the first person saw one in the market, and recognized what it might be, research started. Knowing the area where they were (the places where the fishermen fished), they were found very quickly. In fact, another species in the same order has been found in Indonesia. It was also found initially in a fisherman's catch at market.

Compare this to bigfoot:
1. Not thought extinct, but rather there's no evidence of anything like it existing (and no, gigantopithicus isn't like the descriptions of bigfoot, except superficially at best).
2. While there are claims of them being seen, the stories often contradict each other on sizes, colors, behaviors, and similar. And there has, to date, been no physical evidence to point to a large primate. No bigfoot hides found in Native American archeological sites, for example.
3. We know the supposed range, yet can find no trace of them. Additionally, the ranges proposed tend to be pretty well populated and explored.

So, with the coelecanth, there were physical samples of them all along, they just weren't recognized for what they were. Once discovered, they were quickly found in the wild. Within 50 years, a second species was found in a widely dispersed part of the world.

With bigfoot, we have no reliable physical evidence. No body or body parts. No scat, hair, blood, or anything else that points to a primate. Nothing can be found in the supposed range, a range that is also much more heavily populated than ocean. In over a hundred years of stories, not only have no additional species been found, the original still can't be located.

So bringing up coelecanth as support for bigfoot...well, to me, that'd just a declaration that the speaker has little to no understanding of the subject they're discussing. It's window dressing to make it sound more plausible to those who don't know the details. Because knowing those details only points even more stongly to the problems with bigfoot belief.
 
They also want to be thought of as scientists without having to bother with any real science.

^^ That there. That is one of the things that irks me the most about Footers. They go on about their "research" and their research area and their findings, blah, blah. They try to sound scientific in their arguments and their comments. But half of them cannot spell or even form a sentence properly.

I think this must be partly what drives them to Footin in the first place. It makes them feel accomplished and relevant and important when they are out in the woods banging on trees and whooping into the wind.

I am not a Footer, by any means, but even when arguing with them I do my best to avoid any pretense to a scientific background. My academic background is in Humanities. That was a choice I made in University based on my aptitude and my interests. I don't regret it. I have a very satisfying and decent paying career. Sometimes when involved in a fray over at BFF, it would be great if I could bring more science to bear, but I don't have those chops. But I don't pretend to either. And I try to always make it clear that I am not a scientist. Footers, on the other hand, want everyone to think they are, or they truly think they are, just because they call what they do "research". Irks me a bit I must say.
 
Last edited:
What about Mexico? I don't recall much about bigfoot in that part of North America, despite large tracts of presumably ideal land.

They have the chupacabra to worry about I guess.
 

Thanks for the link. Will munch on my lunch while reading it. LOL, second response in the thread is funny. I don't think I can say the name of the poster without breaking some sort of cross forum rules. But to paraphrase: We have enough bugs and squirrels, nothing significant in finding any more.

Nice.


That was a fun read. I'm tempted to jump into the fray, but arguing with Mulder is like playing chess with a pigeon.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom