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CrossFit is a stupid and dangerous cult

I've just spent some quality time with doctors and physical therapists for a herniated disk. Not that this is scientific but one of the first things the radiologist who looked at my MRI asked me was if I did CrossFit. Not sure what that means other than the fact that he noticed that a lot of people who did CrossFit had my type of back injury.
 
Interesting... definitely says something about their reputation at this point...

But hey, that's what you gotta risk if you wanna be "functionally fit" man! Wait, did your radiologist belong to the ACSM? Because there is a well-known bias... ask their spokesman!

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/strength-and-power-training/Crossing-Swords-with-CrossFit.html
he also accuses the country’s leading professional organization for exercise scientists, the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM), of having a bias against CrossFit. He sees it as a direct competitor, because it offers certification programs for athletic trainers. “We’re selling very different products in the same field, to the same people quite often,” says Berger.

This perspective stuns scientists like Devor, who, like most university sports researchers, belongs to the ACSM. “To think that the American College of Sports Medicine has it out for CrossFit is paranoid almost beyond human understanding,” he says.
Yes, it's a conspiracy!!!
In 2011, the U.S. military, in conjunction with the ACSM, advised soldiers to avoid CrossFit, citing "disproportionate musculo-skeletal injury risk."

In both cases, CrossFit representatives waged a counteroffensive. Reacting to the military findings, CrossFit's chief scientist, Jeff Glassman—father of CrossFit founder Greg Glassman—wrote a 92-page rebuttal that attributed the rise in injuries in part to fatigue from the war on terror.
Run away! Run far, far away...

So the military comes out with the ACSM and says that it's getting people hurt and not to do it, and your response is to blame the war on terror, say the ACSM stands to financially benefit from discrediting CF, and the military is just jealous and biased against your program's success, and in the end claim that there is zero scientific credibility to the position paper at all! AND you do it with a straight face while being the father of the owner! And with no scientific credentials in the field at all!

:jaw-dropp

It actually gets even worse, but how much stupid can you take in one siting?
 
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I'm a paramedic. Lots of paramedics get slipped disks lifting patients. Crossfit can't be more dangerous than what I do for a living.
 
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I'm a paramedic. Lots of paramedics get slipped disks lifting patients. Crossfit can't be more dangerous than what I do for a living.

I am not really seeing anything special in the criticism of Crossfit. Yes there is an increased chance of injury. Got it. Any high intensity program would have that.

As I under stand cf the problem is not just intensity but pattern of body stresses creating the exact conditions for injuries, like burning off glycogen reserves with aerobics and then doing gross-motor activities like lifting when your muscles are depleted. Working past muscle failure with social pressure to meet arbitrary weight or reps goals is just about a guarantee for injury. I did way too many flutter kicks in an Army PT session and ended up with sore abs for 6 weeks. I can extrapolate from that
 
I'm a paramedic. Lots of paramedics get slipped disks lifting patients. Crossfit can't be more dangerous than what I do for a living.
If you weigh the evidence, you're actually now far more likely to get an injury lifting a patient than if you didn't do CrossFit, and you should really pay attention to the risks. If you're already pushing yourself and are suffering from overuse, poor-form issues... look out.

I see you've edited to your post after an hour, did you find the copious evidence of the specific risks of CrossFit from multiple sources yet?

Here is the study that the ACSM put out with the military and an important section

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_111200_Bergeron_Champ.pdf

Negative Characteristics of ECPs
Certain distinctive characteristics of ECPs appear to particularly violate recognized accepted standards for developing muscular fitness. For example, repeatedly performing maximal timed exercise repetitions without adequate rest intervals between sets fails to adhere to appropriate and safe training guidelines. This training paradigm, when coupled with insufficient recovery time between high-volume training sessions, can readily prompt earlier fatigue, additional oxidative stress, less resistance to subsequent exercise strain, greater perception of effort, and unsafe movement execution leading to acute injury, especially with multijoint exercises that demand precise technique (e.g., power cleans)or other advanced exercises requiring considerable skill, balance, and strength (e.g., kettle bells, suspended rings, or hand-stand pushups). Overuse, overreaching, and over-training are parallel risks. Moreover, a clear approach for initiating an ECP and safely building up to higher levels progressively, in many instances, is not well defined for the novice participant. In the beginning stages and throughout the program, in the absence of individual fitness- and experience-based guidelines, Warfighters can arbitrarily do as much as they want and feel they should. Consequently, recurrent unplanned overreaching can easily occur and result in marked deterioration of expected performance gains. That is, those who are new to an ECP may do too much too soon; and even more experienced participants often end up performing advanced exercises with excessive fatigue and undue injury risk. Exercise sessions also can be very competitive, where Warfighters seek peer approval by attempting to ‘‘keep up’’ with others who may be more fit and stronger. Thus, individuals are often encouraged to push themselves unknowingly to excess, with a greater potential for concomitant injury. It is difficult for a competitive Warfighter to ‘‘scale back’’ because of an inherent desire to be part of the team and reluctance to do less than their peers. Individual and more appropriate pacing and progression, though vital for effective fitness development are commonly perceived as showing weakness. All of these contributing factors, if unchecked, could arguably lead to undue overload, poor body control, and loss of safe exercise performance, which, alone or in combination, might notably exacerbate and augment musculoskeletal injury risk.
And regards to the risks of your job...
However, even combining an appropriate and safe running routine or other moderate conditioning activities with regular ECP participation and occupational and other duty-related physical activities appreciably can overload and fatigue a Warfighter. As a result, overuse- and overtraining-related injury and other clinical risks concomitantly increase.
 
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Lifting patients depends on several factors, their weight, their location and the ability of your partners. You could have the best technique but if your partner can't lift or the location is uncooperative, bad weather, uneven staircases, you could end up injured. At least at Crossfit, I can reduce the weight, cut the workout short or even opt out of a workout if needed.

Of course, I am sure there are people who push themselves at Crossfit further than needed and some Crossfit gyms seem to be substantially worse than they should be. Naturally, any intense physical activity increases the chance of injury. I guess I expect people to think for themselves and reevaluate their own abilities. I'm sure some people aren't doing that.
 
Naturally, any intense physical activity increases the chance of injury.
It is not simply the level of intensity, or simply how far people are pushing themselves, it is the methods and habits of training that are inherently dangerous in CrossFit. Increases in risk with no corresponding increase in reward. If you actually read the criticism by experts from the ACSM and others, you would understand this, and wouldn't continue to make the excuse that you can get hurt in any intense exercise.
 
I've also noted that Cross Fit is the exact opposite of Fight Club. The first rule of Cross Fit is you must constantly, incessantly talk about Cross Fit, especially to people who don't want to hear about it. It's very irritating for someone like me who goes to the gym to mitigate the damage done by an otherwise self-destructive lifestyle.
 
Here's a list of the Navl SEAL guy's criticisms, someone who only looks at peer-reviewed information from the top journals in order to educate the most fit humans on the planet...

• Illogical combinations of exercises (such as pre-fatiguing exercises before heavy dead lifts)
• Prescribing the same workouts (including the same weight) for everybody regardless of personal history of training or injury
• Arbitrary goals (such as using 50 or 100 reps for multiple exercises)
• Prescription of exercises that require specialized skills and baseline conditioning and are not appropriate for beginners under high-intensity conditions (Olympic lifts, kettle bells)
• Use of exercises of questionable safety if done rapidly or while fatigued (glute-ham sit-ups, muscle ups, Turkish get-ups)
• Exclusion of useful exercises (such as leg curls or biceps curls) as being “nonfunctional”
• Formats that reward poor technique, such as shortening the ROM to get more reps in less time (despite the lip service Crossfit gives to technique, it is rarely observed in practice)
• Too many formats that blend strength and endurance activities such that the effectiveness of both are diluted (better to perform strength and endurance activities independently most of the time)

So what kind of program would be needed to get real "extreme" fitness that is not as "dangerous" and "stupid" as this thing, and why is this "dangerous" and "stupid" thing going instead of that (excluding the military -- as this "CrossFit" program is not military)?
 
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Increases in risk with no corresponding increase in reward.

But you still have not addressed the relevant question here - so what? Paddling off waterfalls doesn't give me any reward other than the fact that I enjoy doing it. If people enjoy Crossfit simply for the sake of challenging themselves and competing with each other, why is that a problem?
 
So what kind of program would be needed to get real "extreme" fitness that is not as "dangerous" and "stupid" as this thing, and why is this "dangerous" and "stupid" thing going instead of that (excluding the military -- as this "CrossFit" program is not military)?
:boggled:
 
But you still have not addressed the relevant question here - so what? Paddling off waterfalls doesn't give me any reward other than the fact that I enjoy doing it. If people enjoy Crossfit simply for the sake of challenging themselves and competing with each other, why is that a problem?
I did already address this but I'll try again. They do not accept that their methods are dangerous, unscientific etc and continue to promote them, even to the point of pushing the idea that the ACSM is trying to discredit them because they are jealous of their success/are losing business to them. This is of course insane. If you look at the hysterical response to the paper the military put out with the ACSM, it should become clear. They push the idea that it is no more dangerous than other kinds of exercise in the face of these criticisms and it is getting people hurt.

I do not see the comparison at all. CrossFit is not an extreme sport done in nature that people do for adventure. It is an exercise program that people do to get strong and healthy. Some of the ways they try and achieve this are extremely high-risk, low-reward yet they completely deny this. Add in all of the other weird cultish aspects to their culture, I have not even gone into their weird behavior Craig mentioned, and you get the picture. Wait until they start trying to get you to eat Paleo. FFS
 
I wasn't going to post here any more, but then I saw a Crossfit thread.... Oh boy. CrossFit thread on JREF, that's not volatile. lol. But seriously, I am pleased to see some actual critical thinking (at least by some) and not the usual group-think then hi-fiving and ass-slapping that inundates this board.

Crossfit is exactly what's wrong with the fitness industry. Everybody's an "expert" who charges ridiculous amounts of money but nobody takes responsibility for injuring clients.

If people enjoy Crossfit simply for the sake of challenging themselves and competing with each other, why is that a problem?
There are many things wrong with CrossFit "competitions." As said before, the high risk of injury (rhabdo is just one way to get injured doing Crossfit). But that's already been discussed.

How about Crossfit teaches you to cheat exercises to get a "score" on a workout nobody cares about.

This is basically a Crossfit "competition." Let's hop on one leg going in circles while reciting the Gettysburg Address. Whoever hops the most wins.

Don't believe it's this stupid? Have a look:

Wow.
 
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I've just spent some quality time with doctors and physical therapists for a herniated disk. Not that this is scientific but one of the first things the radiologist who looked at my MRI asked me was if I did CrossFit. Not sure what that means other than the fact that he noticed that a lot of people who did CrossFit had my type of back injury.

LoL, Wow. If I weren't such a logical person, I'd claim that crossfit was started by orthepedic surgeons to drive more business into their clinics.
 
In terms of "extreme fitness"... There are a lot of different flavors there, depending on what activity you want to indulge in.
However, if we look at the most-fit athletes around, the individuals who post the very highest VO2 max figures (aerobic efficiency), we're looking at people who do aerobic exercise that involves the whole body.
Cross-country skiers and rowers generally post VO2 Max figures above even marathon runners and pro cyclists.
Triathletes also fare very well.
For the desired combination of aerobic efficiency and overall strength, a good program of high-level aerobic exercise coupled with a basic, whole-body resistance program would pretty much do it.
And without hardly any danger at all.
Of course, if you wanted to use your super-fit body for some activity, you have to throw in training time for that as well.

Personally, I like the various flavors of "resistance in motion" exercises that are coming into some popularity... Things like the "Bulgarian training bag" and the heavy-rope work and the Heavyhands system developed by Leonard Schwartz back in the 80s....
All very effective and at the same time, quite safe.
 
I first came across this stupid group when I was reading about the Navy SEALs, their head physical training guy Mike Caviston drove the entire community nuts by criticizing them... See they think they are the hardest guys on the planet.

I first came across these idiots only a year ago. One opened up by my house and I thought it looked like a nice little gym. Little did I know what went on inside that tiny warehouse would make the leader of Heaven's Gate envious.

I saw a video about that jackass Greg Glassman where he was preaching libertarianism and how free markets solve everything (yeah he's one of those people.) It doesn't take a genius to figure out that libertarianism and fitness do not go together. It'd be like a group of people who believe the government shouldn't prosecute sex crimes opening a kids-only swimming center. Nope, nothing to be critical of there.
 
I did already address this but I'll try again. They do not accept that their methods are dangerous, unscientific etc and continue to promote them, even to the point of pushing the idea that the ACSM is trying to discredit them because they are jealous of their success/are losing business to them. This is of course insane. If you look at the hysterical response to the paper the military put out with the ACSM, it should become clear. They push the idea that it is no more dangerous than other kinds of exercise in the face of these criticisms and it is getting people hurt.

So you claim. Others disagree. Wikipedia, for example:
Since May 2005, CrossFit has published several articles about rhabdomyolysis in their online CrossFit Journal (which is not peer-reviewed). Three of the articles are included in the CrossFit Manual provided to all prospective trainers. In a further attempt to raise awareness of the problem, CrossFit, Inc. also used to sell "Uncle Rhabdo" T-shirts (featuring a cartoon clown dying in a dramatic fashion—hooked up to a dialysis machine, with his kidneys and intestines falling on the floor).
Rhabdomyolysis was the main topic of your OP, and has just been brought up again by Baylor, but selling t-shirts to raise awareness hardly sounds as though they're trying to pretend it doesn't exist.

How about Crossfit teaches you to cheat exercises to get a "score" on a workout nobody cares about.

So you're saying it's basically the same as football? Kicking a ball into net isn't exactly a useful exercise to build fitness, and I can't see any reason for anyone to care how you score at it. Yet for some reason people hardly ever start threads saying football is a stupid cult that everyone should stop doing no matter how much they enjoy it.

Don't believe it's this stupid?

I didn't say it's not stupid, I asked why anyone should care whether it's stupid or not if the people doing it enjoy themselves.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that libertarianism and fitness do not go together.

Enlighten me. I can't see how the two are in any way relevant to each other.
 
So you're saying it's basically the same as football?
No. This is EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said.
Kicking a ball into net isn't exactly a useful exercise to build fitness, and I can't see any reason for anyone to care how you score at it. Yet for some reason people hardly ever start threads saying football is a stupid cult that everyone should stop doing no matter how much they enjoy it.
Over a billion people watch football/soccer. So yeah, people do care about it. Can't say the same about kipping dips.
I didn't say it's not stupid, I asked why anyone should care whether it's stupid or not if the people doing it enjoy themselves.
Because many of the exercises are needlessly dangerous.
Cuddles said:
Enlighten me. I can't see how the two are in any way relevant to each other.
Taking exercise lessons from a business that believes it doesn't have to follow safety regulations. Nope, nothing to worry about.
 
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So you claim. Others disagree. Wikipedia, for example:

Rhabdomyolysis was the main topic of your OP, and has just been brought up again by Baylor, but selling t-shirts to raise awareness hardly sounds as though they're trying to pretend it doesn't exist.
The article referenced in the OP of opens by mentioning the Uncle Rhabdo cartoon character and the fact it's in their literature. The point being made there, of course, is that CrossFit programming has an extremely high level of occurrence for this rare and avoidable condition that they have had to start an education program to reduce it. Of course, this "awareness" doesn't really "trickle down" so that lots of people still end up in the hospital, like the author's friend, and many others. Someone successfully sued them for 300K over it so I guess they would make an effort to include it in their material. Yes they do acknowledge rhabdo as a risk, but it has not changed their culture very much. Evidence? An angry Crossfitter wrote a rebuttal to that article called "CrossFit Doesn’t Have a Dirty Little Secret — You’re Just Irresponsible" which included the line "Rhabdomyolysis — an extreme condition thwarted upon oneself – is not the fault of CrossFit. It’s not the sport, the organization or even the coaches. It’s your own fault." and Crossfit tweeted support of her article.

http://www.sweetlifeericka.com/2013/09/crossfit-doesnt-have-dirty-little.html

Where they actually actively dispute the risk of injury is in their response to the study that was put out with an inclusion of the injury risk, and the statement the military and the ACSM put out.
I didn't say it's not stupid, I asked why anyone should care whether it's stupid or not if the people doing it enjoy themselves.
Cause it hurts people for no reason and they aren't happy until you are doing it too! They believe they have the holy grail of exercise and that everyone else is a rube for not following them...
Enlighten me. I can't see how the two are in any way relevant to each other.
LOL, for starters, the gyms are "unregulated". So we've seen that some gyms, excuse me, boxes, are seeing far more injuries than others... but having reporting and standards, man that would be like, regulation or something! If people are getting hurt at a gym, people will stop going there I guess :)
 
No. This is EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said.

No it isn't. Maybe you need to read your posts a little more carefully before you post them. You claimed that CrossFit is bad because you "cheat" (as if the word even makes sense in this context) in order to score points in a pointless sport. Exactly the same as every other sport in existence.

Over a billion people watch football/soccer. So yeah, people do care about it. Can't say the same about kipping dips.

Ah, so your argument is that CrossFit is bad simply because it's particular meaningless points aren't popular enough. That's quite possibly the stupidest argument against a sport I've ever heard.

Because many of the exercises are needlessly dangerous.

Again, so what? Why are none of the people who hate CrossFit so much able to even attempt answering this question? Kayaking off waterfalls is more dangerous than not kayaking off waterfalls. Heading footballs is a lot more dangerous than not heading footballs. CrossFit is more dangerous than not doing CrossFit. Why do some of you have such a bug up your arses about some people enjoying something that is more dangerous than the things you enjoy doing?

Taking exercise lessons from a business that believes it doesn't have to follow safety regulations. Nope, nothing to worry about.

A business holds beliefs now? Cool. Still not seeing how the political beliefs of the founder of a sport are in any way relevant to anything though

The article referenced in the OP of opens by mentioning the Uncle Rhabdo cartoon character and the fact it's in their literature. The point being made there, of course, is that CrossFit programming has an extremely high level of occurrence for this rare and avoidable condition that they have had to start an education program to reduce it.

So the point has gone from them being bad because they refuse to acknowledge or care about the risks, to them being bad because they acknowledge and care about the risks. Got it.

An angry Crossfitter wrote a rebuttal

And I'll be sure to pay just as much attention to the ranting of random unqualified bloggers as I do to you.

Cause it hurts people for no reason

The reason has been pointed out over and over again, and is exactly the same reason people do any other sport - they enjoy it. Continuing to state that there is no reason just because you don't happen to share that enjoyment is just plain dishonest.

and they aren't happy until you are doing it too!

So it's bad that they think they're doing exercise right and think other people should do the same as them, but it's good that you think you're doing exercise right and think other people should do the same as you. Got it.

for starters, the gyms are "unregulated". So we've seen that some gyms, excuse me, boxes, are seeing far more injuries than others... but having reporting and standards, man that would be like, regulation or something! If people are getting hurt at a gym, people will stop going there I guess

And this is different from other gyms... how exactly? Are other gyms in the US heavily regulated and all have identical injury rates? Seems unlikely really.
 

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