Creationists Argue Nessie Exists

[Soapy Sam]

If you read the article, I think that's sort of their point. (I'm not going to read it again to check!) Obviously, a dinosaur couldn't have lived in the loch for millions of years. But hey, if the Earth was only created 6,000 years ago, then the Flood wasn't that long ago, and a dinosaur could have survived that long!

They're bonkers.

Rolfe.

And Architect is right, you don't call it a lake. A lake is something they have in other countries.

Since we are into pedantic terminology, a dinosaur couldn't survive in the loch at all. Dinosaurs were all terrestrial animals. Mosasaurs, plesiosaurs and icthyosaurs were no more dinosaurs than cows are primates.

Also, a loch isn't a loch if it has a glacier in it, which the Great Glen did comparatively recently. Unless this was an under-ice dwelling aquatic dinosaur, it must have got in there pretty recently.

And yes. They are bonkers.

 

[Wudang]

Why are you limiting it to Scottish accents?

If you had bothered to read the thread first you would have noticed that this was a specific response to a claim by Darat that some Scots pronounce "loch"
as "lock".

 

[xtifr]

If you had bothered to read the thread first you would have noticed that this was a specific response to a claim by Darat that some Scots pronounce "loch"
as "lock".

I have been following the thread since it started (god knows why--probably morbid curiousity), and I disagree with your interpretation of Darat's intent. I believed, and still believe, that he was making the same point as I did: it doesn't matter how Scots pronounce it, because there are other, equally correct pronunciations. Yes, he did, at one point, suggest that there may be Scots who pronounce it "lock", and yes, that may be incorrect, but I don't believe that was ever the main thrust of his argument.

Of course, he's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe my point stands on its own, even if it didn't fit as a response to that exact post. Several people in the thread have been claiming that "lock" is a mispronunciation. It's not.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Next up for them....evolution does exist, but only God's chosen race were descended from Adam and Eve. Chosen they mean the white ones. But the negroids all other cursed races came from apes.

No, just no. Given how pervasive the "Darwin was racist, etc." memes have become in Creationism, that's unlikely to be a direction or position they take. I believe Morris did make some racist statements in the 60s, but repudiated them later.

The groups you're thinking of are Christian Identity churches and they're very out of the mainstream.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Why are you limiting it to Scottish accents? I assure you that it's pronounced "lock" in American accents...

I object! I pronounce it.. wait a minute, despite knowing full well the word is "loch", I say "lock" though with a slight glottal "h" end, especially when pronouncing it with Ness.

 

[Wudang]

even if it didn't fit as a response to that exact post. Several people in the thread have been claiming that "lock" is a mispronunciation. It's not.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. For the record I regard "lock" as a valid pronunciation of "loch" in England.

 

[The Don]

Also, a loch isn't a loch if it has a glacier in it, which the Great Glen did comparatively recently. Unless this was an under-ice dwelling aquatic dinosaur, it must have got in there pretty recently.

If you believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old then you don't need to take into account things that scientists say happened longer ago than that.

In fact you also don't need to take into account the millions of years since scientists say the same kinds of animals roamed the earth on the grounds that it never happened.

From a creationist point of view the implausibility of Nessie surviving all that time demonstrates the alternative, that the Earth is young and God put all the animals there, including Nessie.

And yes. They are bonkers.

Oh yes indeedy.

 

[Dave_46]

I heard a story that during the war, resistance fighters in Holland would ask suspect infiltrators to say "Scheveningen". If they couldn't, they were fifth columnists. I don't really get that. Wouldn't German speakers be able to pronounce that? I can do it.

Rolfe.

I suspect this was a regional dialect thing. My father was born nearby, in Den Haag (although he grew up in High Wycombe - see my location), and I sort of recall (from decades ago) hearing Dutch relatives pronouncing it as if it started "skriv...". I'm probably remembering wrongly though.

Dave

 

[Rolfe]

My mother was there in 1948, and learned to pronounce it at that time. She taught me to say it, as a joke, when I was a child. When I went there myself on holiday, locals were amused to find I could actually say the word.

Rolfe.

 

[bluesjnr]

So if the dictionary disagrees with you, the dictionary is wrong. Uh huh.

Why are you conveniently ignoring the second pronunciation to make your point?

This is a non-argument. You are 100% wrong, it's a Scottish Gaelic and Irish word that you guys are pronouncing wrongly. I can't see why you are determined to undermine that fact.

Have you been moonlighting at Creationist websites?

No, why have you personalised this now? Would you care to explain why you have made this assumption whilst keeping within the confines of the MA. I fail to see what you addressing with this aside.

 

[Steve]

And Architect is right, you don't call it a lake. A lake is something they have in other countries.

For many of us here Scotland falls squarely into the category of "other countries".

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I have been following the thread since it started (god knows why--probably morbid curiousity), and I disagree with your interpretation of Darat's intent. I believed, and still believe, that he was making the same point as I did: it doesn't matter how Scots pronounce it, because there are other, equally correct pronunciations. Yes, he did, at one point, suggest that there may be Scots who pronounce it "lock", and yes, that may be incorrect, but I don't believe that was ever the main thrust of his argument.

Of course, he's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe my point stands on its own, even if it didn't fit as a response to that exact post. Several people in the thread have been claiming that "lock" is a mispronunciation. It's not.

Only if you ignore context.

There is a correct way to pronounce "Notre Dame" when you are referring to a cathedral in Paris. Equally there is a correct way to pronounce it when you are referring to a US college.

That does not mean the two are interchangeable and that it would be correct to use the college pronounciation in Paris or the cathedral one in the States.

 

[funk de fino]

Why are you limiting it to Scottish accents? I assure you that it's pronounced "lock" in American accents, and that's not incorrect, because the Scottish people have no authority to define how Americans pronounce words in their own language, any more than the Brits have authority to tell Americans or Scots to start dropping their 'r's.

Are you having a laugh? It's not an American word. We dont even need to start looking at all the words the USA have massacred.

You can say that all you want, but it doesn't make it true. As I mentioned earlier, we have our own Loch Lomond right here in California, and I assure you that the correct pronunciation there is "lock".

You might as well say that "Germany" is an incorrect pronunciation of "Deutschland". Scottish pronunciations of "loch" are not binding on the rest of the English-speaking world, no matter how much the Scots might wish they were.

The dictionary backs me up on this one, listing two pronunciations for the word.

Utter nonsense.

 

[ddt]

I heard a story that during the war, resistance fighters in Holland would ask suspect infiltrators to say "Scheveningen". If they couldn't, they were fifth columnists. I don't really get that. Wouldn't German speakers be able to pronounce that? I can do it.

Rolfe.

I'm Dutch and I endorse this message.

I suspect this was a regional dialect thing. My father was born nearby, in Den Haag (although he grew up in High Wycombe - see my location), and I sort of recall (from decades ago) hearing Dutch relatives pronouncing it as if it started "skriv...". I'm probably remembering wrongly though.

Dave

Definitely not regional dialect. The "sch" in Dutch is pronounced with a deep guttural sound, especially in the Holland region (Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam). The guttural sound is less pronounced in the southern parts but still clearly identifiable as such. A German, on the other hand, would pronounce the first syllable of Scheveningen as English "shay".

The only thing that surprises me about the "Scheveningen" story is that it only contains one uniquely Dutch sound, and not the "ui" and/or "ei" which would pose a German without a doubt with more insurmountable difficulties. Try to pronounce "schuifpui" for lulz (okay, that word didn't exist yet during WW2).

 

[Rolfe]

For many of us here Scotland falls squarely into the category of "other countries".

We're working on it, sweetie...

Rolfe.

 

[Steve]

We're working on it, sweetie...

Rolfe.

My wife will be pleased! Her maiden name is MacKenzie, and she has always wanted to see me in a kilt.

 

[Ian Osborne]

My wife will be pleased! Her maiden name is MacKenzie, and she has always wanted to see me in a kilt.

There are clubs that cater for those sort of fetishes.

 

[xtifr]

There is a correct way to pronounce "Notre Dame" when you are referring to a cathedral in Paris. Equally there is a correct way to pronounce it when you are referring to a US college.

The American way of pronouncing the name of the cathedral differs from both the way the French pronounce the name of the cathedral and from the way the name of the college is pronounced.

The same is not true of the American pronunciation of "loch". We simply don't have a rasping gargle in our repertoire, and our throats may last longer because of it.

Are you having a laugh? It's not an American word. We dont even need to start looking at all the words the USA have massacred.

I prefer to view it as throwing off the yoke of British cultural imperialism and carving a new language out of a wild frontier. To paraphrase a famous Scot, (as played by an American actor who grew up in Australia): Y'all can take our lives, but y'all can never take our 'u'-less colors!

But, y'know, whatever, dude. You can look down your noses at us just as we look down our noses at you, and millennia from now, when alien archaeologists come to investigate the smoking ruin of our planet, they'll surely be puzzled how we ever managed to fight wars about such trivia.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I heard a story that during the war, resistance fighters in Holland would ask suspect infiltrators to say "Scheveningen". If they couldn't, they were fifth columnists. I don't really get that. Wouldn't German speakers be able to pronounce that? I can do it.

There's a British short propaganda film made in 1940, "Miss Grant Goes to the Door," in which two little old ladies capture a German spy after he gives himself away by pronouncing "Jarvis Cross" as "Yarvis Cross".

This reminds me of the way most Americans pronounce the alpine resort near where Hitler built the Eagles Nest - Burches (or Birtches) garden. That's not how it's spelled or pronounced however.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

The same is not true of the American pronunciation of "loch". We simply don't have a rasping gargle in our repertoire, and our throats may last longer because of it.

That's cos your whisky is substandard.