Has anyone in the U.S. actually sprayed some starch on a large bill to see how the cashier reacts when they use the "yellow pen" on it? Were you delayed getting home? I've always been tempted to try this, but I'm concerned about the possible hassle and loss of a legitimate bill. What are the legal implications of playing such a prank on users of the "yellow pen"?
Counterfeit Money Detection Pen?
- Thread starter xouper
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Brown
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I'm happy to say that I haven't seen any of those pens in quite a while.
I used to live in a town where some businesses used them. The staff at the local Arby's, for example, always tested paper currency with these pens. But it's been about four years since I've seen one in use.
Those who are really daring might be considering making a pad of bills (as described here), giving them a good starching, and trying to pass one of them at a place that uses the pen. if you do this, you'll be waving two "red flags" about the legitimacy of the currency, and the recipient is less likely to be swayed by your assurances that the currency is genuine. You might also have to explain yourself to various governmental officials.
I used to live in a town where some businesses used them. The staff at the local Arby's, for example, always tested paper currency with these pens. But it's been about four years since I've seen one in use.
Those who are really daring might be considering making a pad of bills (as described here), giving them a good starching, and trying to pass one of them at a place that uses the pen. if you do this, you'll be waving two "red flags" about the legitimacy of the currency, and the recipient is less likely to be swayed by your assurances that the currency is genuine. You might also have to explain yourself to various governmental officials.
xouper said:
I think the safest trick is to starch the bills on the left side only. That way, if they are tempted to grab it and destroy it, you can ask them to try marking the other side.
Even more fun, get a small stencil made up that reads "This sh** doesn't work", spray over it. When they use the marker and call the bill suspect, have them mark all over the stenciled area until the message appears.
Cheers,
Xouper- this is a bit off subject, I appreciate- I once saw someone change about 8000 Saudi Riyals for dollars at a money changer in Dharan. This was around $2320 at the time (1995).
Of the 23 $100 bills, three were fakes. (He picked them up by feel and the fact they had the same number). He returned them to the teller, who issued three replacements and put the duds back in his drawer.
Nothing to do with the pens, but be warned. The fakes ARE out there!
(These would be the old style treasury bills)
Of the 23 $100 bills, three were fakes. (He picked them up by feel and the fact they had the same number). He returned them to the teller, who issued three replacements and put the duds back in his drawer.
Nothing to do with the pens, but be warned. The fakes ARE out there!
(These would be the old style treasury bills)
Genghis Pwn
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he-he-he
AmateurScientist
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Soapy Sam said:
Yes, the fakes are out there. They are far more prevalent outside the US than inside, however.
The pens are a stupid idea that never worked and wastes far too many resources for the potential harm averted.
I still see ignorant toads use these things at fast food places. It is a daily occurrence and a useless exercise.
AS
Dr. Popalot
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I'm not sure that saying "they do no good" is entirely accurate. They probably offer some comfort to the user and offer some avoidance to some really dumb people that would otherwise attempt to pass off bogus bills. It might be compaired to the "lie detector" machines, they don't really work, but if you believe they do, you might confess your crimes.
Hmmm.Dr. Popalot said:
Most counterfeiters do not use cheap paper. They attempt to get stock that mimics as closely as possible that the U.S. government buys from Crane. Any higher grade paper is not processed with starch, and therefore won't cause the iodine reaction. The Type I error rate, therefore, is extraordinarily high. Of course, we'ver just offered up several easy suggestions for raising the Type II error rate as well.
If the pens were used as a first step in a multi-step detection process, I might buy this argument. But they aren't. They are foolishly used in the wrongheaded belief that store owners can avoid training their cashiers.
Cheers,
bpesta22
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What is the base rate for counterfeit bills--1 in 1000?
Even this estimate is probably high.
But, the point is, when the base rate is that low, even if these pens are 99% accurate, they'd make lots more false alarms (claiming a real bill is fake) then they would hits (identifying a true conterfeit bill).
Even this estimate is probably high.
But, the point is, when the base rate is that low, even if these pens are 99% accurate, they'd make lots more false alarms (claiming a real bill is fake) then they would hits (identifying a true conterfeit bill).
Pepper's Ghost
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Instead of spraying a large denomination bill, why not just spray a $1 bill and the next time a cashier uses one of those pens, whip out the sprayed $1 and show them how useless the pen is?
Michael Redman
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It's silly. Refusing good cash is going to cost you much more than accepting the occational bad bill, especially as you're just going to pass the bill on to the bank, and the bank probably isn't going to notice, either.
AmateurScientist
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Michael Redman said:
Good point. Now that I think about it, banks have actually passed on counterfeit money to me. I think one gave me a Canadian quarter once.
AS
kookbreaker
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BillHoyt said:
I've said it before here, these pens are effective at keeping 'desktop counterfeitters' from scanning a buck, playing with it in Photoshop and printing out reams of dough. That's all they are good for, but that little bit 'o prevention goes a long way.
I don't understand the rancor against these pens, I put them in the 'ounce of prevention' category.
Pepper's Ghost
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I'm not saying that they will, what I am saying is, when they check the large bill, also take out the doctored $1 and show them how useless the pen is. This way you can play the little "spray the bill with starch" trick and not risk losing $100.BillHoyt said:
kookbreaker said:
But your argument resembles the "why not let them sell homeopathic medicine? It can't hurt. It may help." The Type I error is extraordinarily high. The desktop counterfeiters can figure out how to get higher-grade, starchless paper. C'mon! And, as I said, this isn't the first filter. It is the only safeguard used. They are substituted for use of far more reliable detection methods.
The consequence of getting it wrong is this: the one holding the bill when it is found loses that amount of money. Period. It is taken from you. Period. So the stores that don't train their people properly and rely on iodine simply set themselves up for losses.
Cheers,