Could Bush lose in November?

[Cleon]

That wouldn't be too bad if you don't mind zombies in high places, but some folks say that's already the problem.

Braaaaainnnnnssss.....

Actually, that might help...

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Could Bush lose in November?

Oh God Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!Please!

 

[Tony]

Does it matter? No matter who wins, we are still going to have a tyrannical and un-American system where people in power want to push their morals on everyone else.

 

[davefoc]

Zero said:

Speaking of spin..."class warfare" is a perfect example. Fiscal conservatives should vote for Kerry, and count on the Republican-controlled Congress to balance him out.

Wow, I thought I was the only fiscal conservative thinking along those lines.

I'm voting for the Democratic nominee which will be only the second time I've voted for a Democrat for president. It is a little weird though listening to the party of my guy blast a way with their evil rich people, pro-tax, pro-labor union, protectionist, pro big government anti-business schtick and think I'm actually going to vote for one of these guys.

And to top it all off I'm voting for the party of Jesse Jackson.

 

[subgenius]

9/11 Commission, opposed it, obstructed it, opposed an extension, forced subpoenas.
CIA agent outing, indictments imminent.
WMD commission: Well the ends justified the means.
Record deficits.
New Immigration policies.
AWOL.
Jobs going overseas is a good thing for US.
Didn't win the popular vote last time.
NYC, the justification for the Patriot Act, just passed a resolution condemning it.
Duh.

 

[davefoc]

9/11 Commission, opposed it, obstructed it, opposed an extension, forced subpoenas. - agree, but if he's successful at hiding major screwups by his administration he will probably lose less votes with a little cover up than with the actual facts

CIA agent outing, indictments imminent. - need to wait and see, not sure how this will play out, it doesn't help him but doubt he'll lose many votes over this.

WMD commission: Well the ends justified the means. - not sure what you mean here

Record deficits. - agree, big issue and one of main reasons Califonians rightly got rid of their never say no governor.

New Immigration policies. - hmmm, I think he's floated some trial balloons but I doubt he'll lose votes for ideas not actually acted on.

AWOL - agree, I don't know what the truth is, but he's likely to lose votes just based on accusations

Jobs going overseas is a good thing for US. - Maybe he'll lose a few votes for saying it bluntly, but to some degree this is really just part of a blunt argument for free trade, of course politicians can never speak bluntly. If you favor free trade you are by definition favoring the loss of some jobs and the gain of others.

Didn't win the popular vote last time.- agree, maybe some lingering resentment over that

NYC, the justification for the Patriot Act, just passed a resolution condemning it. - hmm, Are you sure all this whining about the patriot act isn't just partisan bs? I suppose even if it is partisan bs the fact is that partisan bs works so I guess he'll lose a few votes here

A few more things:

No WMD found. - This is huge and might be enough to lose him the election as a stand alone issue

No Ralph Nader. - Without him he wouldn't have won first time.

anti-free market crap like nationalizing baggage inspectors, protecting the steel mills (and then reversing after foreign pressure), massive agricultural subsidies, pro-industry drug bill - admittedly issues that only limited government folks care about but we do make up a lot of the Republican party core and when you piss us off sufficiently we won't vote for you even if you claim to be a Repbulican.

Continuing deaths in Iraq - If this is still going on during the election I can't imagine that he even has a chance

Haliburton contracts - maybe not much of an issue but enough for him to lose a few more votes from people who were having difficulty making up their minds

Cheney - Cheney is too old and medically suspect for the job. Coupled with Haliburon tie in, Cheney looks like major liability.

 

[kuroyume0161]

Puuuuuuuhleaaaaaaaaase LOooooooooooose!!!!

He basically lost in 2000. Although he had 5 more electoral votes, think about his: GWB lost by more than 1/2 million votes to Al Gore; a 1/2 million!!! That's more than 500,000 people!!! (okay, ya get the point) Yet, the bastard still won.

That's only 1/2%, but still a large populous in variance. The public spoke and the club counted dangling whatevers.

Who wins really doesn't matter much any more. It's the same stupid quo. Nothing changes. Politicians remain politicians. I'm just waiting for the president to proclaim himself supreme dictator so that our transformation into falling Rome can be complete. GWB just wants to circumvent this and go directly to the theocratic Rome that proved oh so useful to the human race...

 

[kevinsbikes]

Puuuuuuuhleaaaaaaaaase LOooooooooooose!!!!



Who wins really doesn't matter much any more. It's the same stupid quo. Nothing changes. Politicians remain politicians. I'm just waiting for the president to proclaim himself supreme dictator so that our transformation into falling Rome can be complete. GWB just wants to circumvent this and go directly to the theocratic Rome that proved oh so useful to the human race...

But, it does matter who wins! Currently we have a bonofide retard/moron/idiot (choose your favorite title) ruining our economy, foreign relationships, my love for this country, etc. all in the name of God's will. He has to lose this election... if he doesn't, I just may have to take my own life. I would rather have Liberace's dead corpse run the country right now. In case you care, I voted for Dean in the primary. DEAN= The only good choice.

 

[fishbob]

Bush was a child of privilege, got breaks due to family connections, made millions on insider stock deals, put the stupidest non-sponsored name in history on a baseball field, took pride in the Texas death penalty count during his term, ran a bogus education reform in Texas, trying to implement the same bogus education reform nationally, took us into an unnecessary war where hundreds of American and Brit troops have been killed and thousands wounded, hundreds to thousands of Iraqi civilian bystanders killed and who knows how many wounded. Racked up debt for the foreseeable future but denies it whenever questioned, granted favors for his insider buddies.

The thing about Bush on a personal level that fries me is that he is arrogant. Arrogance just sets me off like nothing else. In my experience, arrogance is a personality trait closely associated with incompetence. I see arrogance in Cheney and Rummy and Ashcroft. I suspect that perhaps the best policy decisions have not been made and will not be made because these guys are twits.

 

[Zero]

Zero said:

Wow, I thought I was the only fiscal conservative thinking along those lines.

I'm voting for the Democratic nominee which will be only the second time I've voted for a Democrat for president. It is a little weird though listening to the party of my guy blast a way with their evil rich people, pro-tax, pro-labor union, protectionist, pro big government anti-business schtick and think I'm actually going to vote for one of these guys.

And to top it all off I'm voting for the party of Jesse Jackson.

You know, while "tax and spend"(which is right-wing spin again) may not be your cup of tea, isn't it better than spend spend spend, and cut taxes at the same time? Taxes are the dues you pay to live in America; the question is how do we spend those taxes, on "missile defense" and pork, or on keeping this country a decent place to live?

Taxes should be regulated by honest methods like slashing pork and better accountability, not by raising outrageous deficits while cutting taxes to the people who need it least, and who don't stimulate the economy.

 

[davefoc]

kevinsbikes said:

Currently we have a bonofide retard/moron/idiot (choose your favorite title) ruining our economy

Bush is not any of those things and if you remotely believe any of that you are engaging in some very lazy thinking.

Perhaps it makes you feel better to say things like that because you find it easier to call people names that you disagree with than to go through the difficulty of thinking about why and dealing with the tremendous uncertainties that are part of the real world.

Maybe you think you'[ve thought a lot about those issues and have distilled down the result of your thought process into this childish diatribe. If that's the case your words don't provide evidence of much ability on your part for rational analysis.

 

[Kodiak]

Just want to be sure...Kodiak...your point is that John Kerry, as President, would not do everything in his power to prevent another terrorist attack. Indeed, the reason for not re-defeating Bush is because Bush cares more about national security and protecting America than John Kerry? That, indeed, electing John Kerry is essentially electing a fellow traveller...someone who will specifically make policy choices designed to undercut America and put Americans at risk?

My point isn't to specifically defend Kerry -- though I think Bush, as you know, is very problematic. It is the willingness to suggest that only Bush has solutions to the national security challenges that face this country...a notion I reject, and which seems to be proven in the application of Bush policies.

How, may I know, is someone like Kerry less honorable than Bush? Less patriotic? Less interested in securing America and Americans?

I do not know where you are getting all your inferences from.

My only points were that 1. Kerry is an unknown and 2. the fact that Kerry is a liberal Democrat means that there is a very good chance that he is less "hawkish" than Bush.

Will Kerry do what he thinks is best? Of course.

Will it be that same things Bush would be willing to do? I doubt it.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

Zero said:

Wow, I thought I was the only fiscal conservative thinking along those lines.

I'm voting for the Democratic nominee which will be only the second time I've voted for a Democrat for president. It is a little weird though listening to the party of my guy blast a way with their evil rich people, pro-tax, pro-labor union, protectionist, pro big government anti-business schtick and think I'm actually going to vote for one of these guys.

And to top it all off I'm voting for the party of Jesse Jackson.

Actually Dave the sentiment goes deeper and far wider on both sides of the political spectrum. American's historically prefer a divided government. I guess we tend to be naturally suspicious. Wonder why .

 

[davefoc]

TillEulenspiegel.
I have come to think that the success of the US has more to do with the two party system than I had ever realized.

As something of an ideolog I had always thought that we would be better off if the party that more closely matched my ideology was in power.

I think, I failed to take into account the nature of humans and the nature of politics with that idea. The fact is that both parties are run essentially as businesses to generate money and get people elected. While almost all the public speeches reference public policy and public benefit behind the scenes both parties are making deals and acting to provide special benefits to special interests. The two things that stand in the way of this process are an effective president or governor and the pressure applied from the other party.

It seems like in Califonia we had an example of what happens with an ineffective governor and the near elimination of the two party system. It seems like on the national level we may be living through the same thing but with the Republicans in charge.

 

[Kodiak]

Actually Dave the sentiment goes deeper and far wider on both sides of the political spectrum. American's historically prefer a divided government. I guess we tend to be naturally suspicious. Wonder why .

Ya gotta love grid-lock!

 

[odorousrex]

Bush: Yale boy, Skull and Bones, Washington Insider, good ole' boy politian, rich, america likes him.

Kerry: Yale boy, Skull and Bones, Washington Insider, good ole' boy politian, rich, america likes him.


"What flavor ice cream do you want with your american pie? Vanilla or vanilla?"

 

[Kodiak]

Bush: Yale boy, Skull and Bones, Washington Insider, good ole' boy politian, rich, america likes him.

Kerry: Yale boy, Skull and Bones, Washington Insider, good ole' boy politian, rich, america likes him.


"What flavor ice cream do you want with your american pie? Vanilla or vanilla?"

Just one thing: Bush, a "Washington Insider"?

 

[Zero]

Just one thing: Bush, a "Washington Insider"?

Well, one step removed...after all, he did bring all of his dad's "Washington insider" friends along with him.

 

[Kodiak]

Well, one step removed...after all, he did bring all of his dad's "Washington insider" friends along with him.

Ah...the ol' "political dynasty"...

True enough.

 

[SlippyToad]

How about the number of terrorist attacks in the United States after 9-11?

Yes, I want a President who reacts to threats only after it's too late to do anything about them.