Merged Core-led collapse and explosive demolition

[NoahFence]

By "they're" you mean the Twin Towers?

No, "they" as in two 7/11's I drove by the other day.

So the largest (by that I guess you mean tallest?) building to ever be demo'd was 50 storeys high?

Hardly 50 storeys. 439 Feet.

Lemme guess - you're going somewhere with this, I'm going to make you look like an idiot and you won't post for 2 weeks.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Jay Jonas:

FDNY Captain Jay Jonas, who survived in a 6th floor core stairwell of the north tower as the building collapsed around him, describes that experience:

Now, people have tried to get me to describe what it was like while the collapse was happening. It was a montage of different sounds and experiences. The sounds were a combination of sounds. This building collapsed in what’s called a pancake fashion. In other words, one floor would hit another floor and would collapse that floor and then collapse the next floor. And every time a floor would hit another floor, it created a loud boom and tremendous vibration.

The entire collapse of this 110-story building took 13 seconds. So it sounded like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, like that. And every time that happened, it shook the entire building. It shook the whole floor. So every time a floor would hit another floor, we’d be literally bouncing off the floor. We were being thrown around the stairway.

There was also this very loud sound of twisting steel all around our heads. These massive steel beams and girders were just being twisted around our heads just like they were twist ties on a loaf of bread. And a very loud, like a steel screeching sound, almost like a lot of trains coming into a subway station at the same time and all of them hitting their brakes at the same time.
​

McGlynn:

... We were heading across Houston betore we made the left on West End Avenue. At that time saw the plume of heavy fire engulf the north tower what looked like the north tower. I thought it might have been secondary explosion, it might have been bomb. I didnt know what it was. It turned out later that I found out that that was the second tower being hit.

This is an old tactic by conspiracy peddlers. As Gravy noted many years ago:

9/11 conspiracists desperately try to force reality to fit their beliefs. Rational people know that won't work. Conspiracists don't care. Their goal is to perpetuate the conspiracy theory, not to find the truth. One of their most reprehensible methods – which I have spent hundreds of hours combating – is misrepresentation of 9/11 eyewitness accounts.

... The most common conspiracist misuse of eyewitness accounts involves descriptions of loud noises in and around the Twin Towers. "Controlled demolition" theorists claim that such descriptions indicate that explosive devices were at work in the towers, even, for some unfathomable reason, long before the collapses. To them, all descriptions are literal and figures of speech don't exist. When Hursley Lever, who was in the north tower basement when flight 11 hit, said "I heard a bomb," but then explained that he thought the noise was a transformer explosion and went back to work, conspiracists will focus on "bomb" and omit the rest.

 

[TruthersLie]

By "they're" you mean the Twin Towers?



So the largest (by that I guess you mean tallest?) building to ever be demo'd was 50 storeys high?

Poor Ergo.
gets owned about barotrauma at OKC Bombing
then gets pwned about lack of testimony from the survivors about explosions...

Getting to be a habit...
into vs onto (figured it out yet buddy?)
essentially vs actually?
About
exponentially

 

[ergo]

No, I'm really just trying to figure out what you're saying.

Because they're a full three times the size of the world record, and that can't be achieved in a populated building. It's pure fantasy.

Hardly 50 storeys. 439 Feet.

Okay, so 439 feet is the "world record", as you put it. The tallest building that's ever been imploded. And taller buildings could not possibly be imploded with fewer explosives. Is that what you're saying?

 

[DGM]

Jay Jonas:

Now, people have tried to get me to describe what it was like while the collapse was happening. It was a montage of different sounds and experiences. The sounds were a combination of sounds. This building collapsed in what’s called a pancake fashion. In other words, one floor would hit another floor and would collapse that floor and then collapse the next floor. And every time a floor would hit another floor, it created a loud boom and tremendous vibration.

How long before ergo jumps on that NIST abandoned the "pancake" model?

 

[ergo]

Um, Noah?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

How long before ergo jumps on that NIST abandoned the "pancake" model?

Well then he gets to read further down Gravy's page:

Again, to be clear: the collapses didn't start by floors breaking loose and pancaking into other floors, but floors were hit sequentially as the tops of the towers were pile-driven by gravity through the lower sections. Below, a four-story tower section that "pancaked" into a block a few feet high. Portions of the corrugated steel floor pans on which the floor concrete rested are visible.

But, given that he hasn't bothered to even when being spoon fed, I don't see that happening. Most any of us can do is give people the opportunity to study the information for themselves; it's not our fault when they don't.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

twinstead tosses another softball...

How can a rational person simply declare explosives were used?

No rational person is declaring explosives were used.

 

[ergo]

Little Noah done run away...

 

[aggle-rithm]

Would you care to point out to us where he states he did not hear any explosions? He talks about hearing floors "imploding" one on top of the other. What do you think he means by that?

!!!

You appear to have abandoned all pretense that you are taking this seriously.

 

[NoahFence]

No, I'm really just trying to figure out what you're saying.






Okay, so 439 feet is the "world record", as you put it. The tallest building that's ever been imploded. And taller buildings could not possibly be imploded with fewer explosives. Is that what you're saying?

It's not "as I put it". It's the fact. You might as well say my computer now "as I put it" is quicker than the one I used in 1990. It's a fact.

And unless you have some evidence to support your assertions, no - you CANNOT demo a building three times the size of the world record with FEWER explosives. I base that purely on assumptions, which you people are free to do - which means I am too. Well, assumptions and common sense which is the key ingredient you people lack.

 

[NoahFence]

Um, Noah?

Um...driving home from work?


It just ain't possible. So many things have to happen. Look (for once) at the big picture.

TONS of explosives being planted in 3 of the biggest and busiest buildings in NYC - nobody notices.

Aircraft impact that shakes the entire building from top to bottom, with jet fuel laden fire and a massive fireball traveling down the core of the building, leaves these magic explosives unharmed.

MASSIVE unfought fires strewn over acres of building - explosives still don't explode, or burn harmlessly.

~1 hour later they're set off - the wiring connecting the explosives is also immune to the searing heat.

The Controlled Demolition is strewn over 16 acres of lower Manhattan. Crews spend weeks and months combing every inch of the area, and no explosive residue is found, and the components of the explosives - which survived the impact and fire - are all of a sudden destroyed and disintegrated.

Oh, and about those Pyroclastic clouds.....

 

[Clayton Moore]

So how does this gravity collapse work?

Is it something like this?

The top 30 floors fall into floor 80 smashing it and floor 81 into dust

The top 29 floors fall into floor 79 smashing it and floor 82 into dust:

The top 28 floors fall into floor 78 smashing it and floor 83 into dust:

The top 27 floors fall into floor 77 smashing it and floor 84 into dust:

The top 26 floors fall into floor 76 smashing it and floor 85 into dust:

The top 25 floors fall into floor 75 smashing it and floor 86 into dust:

The top 24 floors fall into floor 74 smashing it and floor 87 into dust:

The top 23 floors fall into floor 73 smashing it and floor 88 into dust:

The top 22 floors fall into floor 72 smashing it and floor 89 into dust:

The top 21 floors fall into floor 71 smashing it and floor 90 into dust:

The top 20 floors fall into floor 70 smashing it and floor 91 into dust:

The top 19 floors fall into floor 69 smashing it and floor 92 into dust:

The top 18 floors fall into floor 68 smashing it
and floor 93 into dust:

The top 17 floors fall into floor 67 smashing it and floor 94 into dust:

The top 16 floors fall into floor 66 smashing it and floor 95 into dust:

The top 15 floors fall into floor 65 smashing it and floor 96 into dust:

The top 14 floors fall into floor 64 smashing it and floor 97 into dust:

The top 13 floors fall into floor 63 smashing it and floor 98 into dust:

The top 12 floors fall into floor 62 smashing it and floor 99 into dust:

The top 11 floors fall into floor 61 smashing it and floor 100 into dust:

The top 10 floors fall into floor 60 smashing it and floor 101 into dust:

The top 9 floors fall into floor 59 smashing it
and floor 102 into dust:

The top 8 floors fall into floor 58 smashing it and floor 103 into dust:

The top 7 floors fall into floor 57 smashing it and floor 104 into dust:

The top 6 floors fall into floor 56 smashing it and floor 105 into dust:

The top 5 floors fall into floor 55 smashing it and floor 106 into dust:

The top 4 floors fall into floor 54 smashing it and floor 107 into dust:

The top 3 floors fall into floor 53 smashing it and floor 108 into dust:

The top 2 floors fall into floor 52 smashing it and floor 109 into dust:

The top 1 floors fall into floor 51 smashing it and floor 110 into dust:

The top 0 floors fall into floor 50 smashing it and floor 111 into dust:

OOOOppps

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I'm not pre-supposing anything as ergo suggests. Explosives are dangerous when your in close proximity to them, no matter how strategically placed they are.

There is at least one notable case where a lack of preparation to deal with debris lead to a fatality, and the victim was over 400 meters away from the explosion when she was killed.

http://www.courts.act.gov.au/magistrates/dec/bender/Sect01.htm

Tragically Katie Bender was struck in the head by a fragment of steel killing her instantly. The fragment weighed 999 grams. It travelled a distance of 430 metres at a sub sonic speed in about 3.1 seconds after the blast first occurred. The fragment of steel was expelled from one or other of the corner columns (C30 or C74) on the outside row on the face of the East Wing of the Main Tower Block. There were a number of persons in her immediate proximity that witnessed this tragedy. A number of other spectators were injured by flying metal and debris. There was also damage to some motor vehicles.

The fragments of debris were propelled distances of up to 1km from the site of the demolition in the direction in which Katie. Bender was located and further round to and beyond the area of the Canberra Yacht Club. Items of debris were located in the area of the southern end of Commonwealth Avenue bridge, the lake foreshore, the National Library of Australia, the Treasury car park, the Hyatt Hotel, Lennox Gardens and the area towards and beyond the Canberra Yacht Club. An item of steel weighing about 16 kilograms was later retrieved from Lake Burley Griffin on the south western foreshore adjacent to the Yacht Club. It is trite to say that many hundreds of Canberra citizens drawn to this spectacle were at grave risk. A diagram and photographs of the significant items subsequently located and apparently ejected from the building is found in exhibit 10A and re-produced in this Report.

The case that ergo alleges is not only involving people who are much closer to the alleged explosives at detonation, but also in an alleged case where absolutely zero provisions were made to protect people at any distance from the immediate primary and secondary effects of the detonations. Like I said, what they'd hear is the least of their problems.

 

[Edx]

So how does this gravity collapse work?

Is it something like this?

Here let me help you with that.

Gravity collapse: Happy?

 

[vtbub]

So exactly what damages, if any, should have happened to the towers based on the impacts of aluminum jetliners full of fuel? A stationary fire that would have burned itself out in a day or two?

Are you truly suggesting that after the fire was out, a cleanup crew could have come in and spiffied up the place and the Towers would have been open the next week as normal?

If it was a CD, why the planes then and why weren't the buildings imploded at the same time. Certainly a CD, for maximum effect for all the evil-doers that were behind this dasterdly deed, would have been nearly simultaneous and at a latter hour for maximum effect. The towers were not full. There was probably a later arriving crowd that day than usual, (Giants played Denver on the Monday Night Football opener) and if a true really big and bad CD were too happen after lunch would have been perfect and not before workers had time to get to work or leave the other tower before the second plane hit.

I mean why go through the whole plane nonsense if the building was wired for sound to blow?


Or, two planes hit the buildings, causing their collapse.

Even if there was any real chance of a core CD collapse, which is as about as realistic as the Queen of England being the next Pope, then why was it so poorly planned? A half hour apart with the second building having a decent chance to get out of harms way if they evacuated after the first plane hit, or the timing being before the buildings were full and in the middle of the work day?

 

[Oystein]

So how does this gravity collapse work?

Is it something like this?

The top 30 floors fall into floor 80 smashing it and floor 81 into dust

The top 29 floors fall into floor 79 smashing it and floor 82 into dust:
...
The top 0 floors fall into floor 50 smashing it and floor 111 into dust:

OOOOppps

No.
You have a strange imagination.

(Hint 1: Only a small portion of the structure is turned to dust.
Hint 2: Floors do not magically lose mass when they are "smashed", only a small portion of their momentum and kinetic energy. They pick up both from gravity (that is a force) as they continue to fall)

It's more like this:


The top 30 floors fall into floor 80 smashing it and floor 81 into dust ruins.

The top 29 31 floors fall into floor 79 smashing it and floor 82 into dust ruins.

The top 28 32 floors fall into floor 78 smashing it and ony a bit of floor 83 into dust ruins.

The top 27 33 floors fall into floor 77 smashing it and none of floor 84 into dust ruins, as the acruing rubble of floors 78-83 is now massive and fast enough to crush the next floors, and the top floors 84-110 experience much less forces than the floors beneath the rubble front.

...

The top 109 floors crush the ground floor.

The top 110 floors crush the basement floors.



OOOOPS! Clayton, you never showed me evidence for your lied-up assertion that the basements didn't collapse!

 

[Clayton Moore]

Um...driving home from work?


It just ain't possible. So many things have to happen. Look (for once) at the big picture.

TONS of explosives being planted in 3 of the biggest and busiest buildings in NYC - nobody notices.


WHY TONS?

Aircraft impact that shakes the entire building from top to bottom, with jet fuel laden fire and a massive fireball traveling down the core of the building, leaves these magic explosives unharmed.

Impossible.
Even more impossible if you're saying it happened in both towers.


MASSIVE unfought fires strewn over acres of building - explosives still don't explode, or burn harmlessly.


There were no massive fires in either tower.


~1 hour later they're set off - the wiring connecting the explosives is also immune to the searing heat.

The Controlled Demolition is strewn over 16 acres of lower Manhattan. Crews spend weeks and months combing every inch of the area, and no explosive residue is found, and the components of the explosives - which survived the impact and fire - are all of a sudden destroyed and disintegrated.

Didn't the government say that explosives were not considered in their investigations?

 

[EventHorizon]

There were no massive fires in either tower.

That's it. If you don't already have him on ignore this is the time to do it. Anybody that can type that and actually believe it is either trolling or too clueless to take seriously.

 

[beachnut]

Didn't the government say that explosives were not considered in their investigations?

What explosives? The towers fell due to impacts and fires, no booms from explosives were heard on 911. You failed to research 911. You are 9 years behind and falling back into nonsense. Did you ask the FBI what they looked for? Explosives would burn off in the fires, do you research this before you post delusional nonsense? Why ask questions, can't you answer anything on your own? No wonder you can't go to 20/20, or 60 minutes you have nonsense.