Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[The Don]

There'd be a point in having a weapon as a deterrent if you told your enemies in advance that you were not prepared to use it? You'll have to explain your contorted logic to persuade anyone of that.

It shows how badly the Corbynites misjudge thinks. This was supposed to be a "gotcha" question in which the new PM was supposed to look stupid and hypocritical (if she said that she would not use the nuclear deterrent) or like a monster (by forcing her into a stuttering admission she said that she would).

Instead, by quietly and calmly stating that she would use it, she completely pwned him.

Please note that I personally am staunchly pro unilateral disarmament and anti-Trident replacement.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

It shows how badly the Corbynites misjudge thinks. This was supposed to be a "gotcha" question in which the new PM was supposed to look stupid and hypocritical (if she said that she would not use the nuclear deterrent) or like a monster (by forcing her into a stuttering admission she said that she would).

Instead, by quietly and calmly stating that she would use it, she completely pwned him.

Please note that I personally am staunchly pro unilateral disarmament and anti-Trident replacement.

It wasn't a Corbynite that asked the question though. It was an SNP MP. Although I suppose it could still be Corbyn's fault for being in the same room at the same time.

 

[Andy_Ross]

There'd be a point in having a weapon as a deterrent if you told your enemies in advance that you were not prepared to use it? You'll have to explain your contorted logic to persuade anyone of that.

Maggie wasn't going to use the missiles.
Her orders to the Sub Captsins was not to launch.

 

[catsmate]

Corbyn underperformed again today in PMQs.

Ye gods that was awful. And Abbott blames his performance on other MPs?

 

[catsmate]

The problem with a split is:

The Corbyn-rump gets:
- The brand

Not exactly loaded with goodwill anymore.

- The activist base (to canvass, get out the vote etc)

I'd disagree; they get the noisy fanbase but don't get the people who organise, raise funds and actually run the party.

- The wider electorate

Yes, so they get a couple of dozen seats.

The PLP gets:
- Closer to the wider electorate
But they don’t have:
- Activists
- The brand

As I've said I don't agree, and the idea of a "new" party (ah the history... ) may well help them

 

[Darat]

It wasn't a Corbynite that asked the question though. It was an SNP MP. Although I suppose it could still be Corbyn's fault for being in the same room at the same time.

As has been seen above the actual facts rarely seem to come into play when anything is published about Corbyn.

 

[Darat]

Not exactly loaded with goodwill anymore.


I'd disagree; they get the noisy fanbase but don't get the people who organise, raise funds and actually run the party.


Yes, so they get a couple of dozen seats.


As I've said I don't agree, and the idea of a "new" party (ah the history... ) may well help them

The "Corbyn" supporters are certainly those that go out and canvas and raise funds at a local level. I can't see how someone can be mistaken about this if at knowledgeable about the grassroots labour membership and supporters.

 

[Vixen]

You've been told a billion times not to use hyperbole

Really? So you tell someone like Erdogan that you will nuke a few hundred thousands of their civilian masses if he dare threaten us and it will deter him? He hates half his generals anyway, is rabidly paranoid and has utter contempt for half his subjects. I doubt it would 'deter' a loony tinpot despot one little bit.

And think of the consequences, it would destroy flora and fauna for miles around and the fragile ecosystem for generations. In addition, the ensuing radioactive cloud will drift our way when the wind blows, causing a sharp rise in cancer deaths 10 - 20 years down the line, not to mention birth deformities.


Deterrent, deschmerrent.

 

[Vixen]

Yeah, you just keep on telling yourself it's all the press' fault. "People" have had 30 years of experience of Corbyn. "People" have had multiple experiences of the hard left.

You think you are supporting democracy? No, you've been sucked into a personality cult, and the 1960s.

No, it is the anti-Corbynists who are into personality cults. Smarminess, 'charisma' and entertainment value is all that worries them.

 

[Vixen]

There'd be a point in having a weapon as a deterrent if you told your enemies in advance that you were not prepared to use it? You'll have to explain your contorted logic to persuade anyone of that.

How does stocking up to the gills with nuclear weapons add to world peace. Do you really think we could match Russia, China or the USA in - heaven forfend! - a nuclear war?

Prior to the Great War (WWI) of 1916, the State didn't even bother to give ordinary soldiers killed on battlefields their own individual graves with their name honoured; they were all 'unknown soldiers'. Only the officer ranks were given recognition.

Likewise, do you think that "we" will be protected by "our" leaders in their building up weapons of mass destruction? Will "we" be invited into "their" bunkers, together with our Queen and state leaders, when this war breaks out?

 

[Vixen]

I was going to respond to this but saw that MikeG has already said pretty much everything I wanted to say.



Although in my case I was a Labour Party member and activist for more than 20 years (until I could no longer stomach Blair's legacy). Corbyn reminds me of the "old school" Trots in the local parties. Their ideological blinkers present them with a bizarre and twisted view of the world.

Ironically, apart from a radical socialist spell in my youth, I am conservative by nature, but can't vote for them because of their nastiness, voted centre-party Green in the last two elections, couldn't stand the smarminess of 'Tory-boy' used car salesman veneer of Tony Bliar, although was delighted when Thatcher and co were kicked into touch.

I don't think Corbyn is 'old school' Trot. He's a parliamentarian. Being anti-nuclear weapon and pro-workers rights doesn't make him an ultra-leftie', although compared to May or Trump, he would be. IMV it is May and Trump who are extreme.

 

[The Don]

I don't think Corbyn is 'old school' Trot. He's a parliamentarian. Being anti-nuclear weapon and pro-workers rights doesn't make him an ultra-leftie', although compared to May or Trump, he would be. IMV it is May and Trump who are extreme.

Have you seen his views on subjects like the IRA, Venezuela, the EU, the "evils" of capitalism ? These are classic "common room" views and add to the perception of a dogmatic socialist mired in the views and politics of the 1970s.

 

[Vixen]

Have you seen his views on subjects like the IRA, Venezuela, the EU, the "evils" of capitalism ? These are classic "common room" views and add to the perception of a dogmatic socialist mired in the views and politics of the 1970s.

Come on, the IRA comments were decades ago. In context, that was then, this is now. I can recall being invited to see a film, 'the Patriot Game ' (IIRC) organised by a local leftist group. Hundreds attended, and afterwards, a bucket was passed around stashed full of twenty, ten and five pound notes. No doubt, looking at it in retrospect, it all went to a dodgy cause, but who hasn't said something, that out of context of the time, place and social moraes, does look pretty appalling.

 

[The Don]

Come on, the IRA comments were decades ago. In context, that was then, this is now. I can recall being invited to see a film, 'the Patriot Game ' (IIRC) organised by a local leftist group. Hundreds attended, and afterwards, a bucket was passed around stashed full of twenty, ten and five pound notes. No doubt, looking at it in retrospect, it all went to a dodgy cause, but who hasn't said something, that out of context of the time, place and social moraes, does look pretty appalling.

AFAIK, he hasn't disavowed those views indeed he recently doubled-down.

 

[angrysoba]

Come on, the IRA comments were decades ago. In context, that was then, this is now. I can recall being invited to see a film, 'the Patriot Game ' (IIRC) organised by a local leftist group. Hundreds attended, and afterwards, a bucket was passed around stashed full of twenty, ten and five pound notes. No doubt, looking at it in retrospect, it all went to a dodgy cause, but who hasn't said something, that out of context of the time, place and social moraes, does look pretty appalling.

In retrospect? Seriously?

If you went to an event organized in order to raise money for the IRA when Patriot Games came out then you and your comrades were clearly an extremely ignorant and/or vile bunch of people. In fact, if you watched the film and thought it was pro-IRA then you were also pretty blinkered.

You can claim not to have known anything about the IRA way back in the ancient days of the 1990s, but you cannot claim to have had information about the IRA kept from you.

 

[jimbob]

Have you seen his views on subjects like the IRA, Venezuela, the EU, the "evils" of capitalism ? These are classic "common room" views and add to the perception of a dogmatic socialist mired in the views and politics of the 1970s.

Come on, the IRA comments were decades ago. In context, that was then, this is now. I can recall being invited to see a film, 'the Patriot Game ' (IIRC) organised by a local leftist group. Hundreds attended, and afterwards, a bucket was passed around stashed full of twenty, ten and five pound notes. No doubt, looking at it in retrospect, it all went to a dodgy cause, but who hasn't said something, that out of context of the time, place and social moraes, does look pretty appalling.

In context of the time, the IRA comments are worse.

As a consequence of the Peace Process, the IRA has subsequently renounced the bullet. Corbyn was praising them in the 1980s.


I know the Spectator is Tory-biased but this is still fairly accurate:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/0...-now-led-by-people-who-wanted-the-ira-to-win/

This is a point of view but it’s the point of view typically held by the kind of people who wanted the IRA to win. The war we had was kinda due to the action of the IRA too.

Again, it is important to note that there was always a constitutional alternative to Sinn Fein and the IRA. The republicans were a minority within the wider nationalist movement. The tragedy of the peace process has been the hollowing out of what passed for Northern Ireland’s moderate centre and its replacement by a carve-up between extremists on both sides of the dispute.

But, still, it was never hard to distinguish between the decent and the abhorrent. On the one hand lay the SDLP on the other Sinn Fein and the IRA. It is revealing that Jeremy Corbyn and his most senior comrade each chose to take the side of the IRA.

Remember, too, that just two weeks after the Brighton bombing Corbyn invited IRA bombers to the House of Commons. Remember that as you contemplate the fact McDonnell is on record saying he’d “cheerfully go back to the 1980s and assassinate Thatcher”.

And in the fallout from the most important political issue for a generation, and when a new Prime Minister is announced, how does Corbyn demonstrate control?

By attending a Cuban Solidarity meeting:

Well, Corbyn did attend the Cuban Solidarity Campaign as a way of showing leadership

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5783d4b1e4b07a99eadd0fcd?edition=uk

He is actually a caricature of a 1980s left-winger.

Has he noticed that the US is normalising relations with Cuba?

ETA: If Corbyn met right-wing as well as left-wing terrorists, then I'd believe his idea that he was trying to promote peace.

 

[Vixen]

In retrospect? Seriously?

If you went to an event organized in order to raise money for the IRA when Patriot Games came out then you and your comrades were clearly an extremely ignorant and/or vile bunch of people. In fact, if you watched the film and thought it was pro-IRA then you were also pretty blinkered.

You can claim not to have known anything about the IRA way back in the ancient days of the 1990s, but you cannot claim to have had information about the IRA kept from you.

I was very young, had Irish friends who were very passionate about the Ireland issue. In my part of London, we have a large hostel for single men, which is filled with Irish immigrants who, when they came to England to build the roads and infrastructure, could only get casual, cash in hand jobs, thus never were able to get a mortgage, etc.,etc. Their second-third generation children had sympathy for the Irish republican cause (as did John Lennon; cf 'Give Ireland Back to the Irish') - however, it doesn't follow they were pro-IRA bombing - and it was, for them, a sincere cause. Why s this cause any worse than any other cause. Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

Supporting the Ulster Unionists was surely not much better?

I hasten to say, I will keep out of the Irish Question.

 

[jimbob]

From Badscience:

Corbyn's team considered telling on an MP to their dad: https://www.politicshome.com/news/u.../excl-jeremy-corbyns-political-secretary-said

Pathetic.

"It's a kinder gentler politics except for internal dissidents" and only kinder to the Tories due to utter incompetence.

 

[jimbob]

I was very young, had Irish friends who were very passionate about the Ireland issue. In my part of London, we have a large hostel for single men, which is filled with Irish immigrants who, when they came to England to build the roads and infrastructure, could only get casual, cash in hand jobs, thus never were able to get a mortgage, etc.,etc. Their children had sympathy for the Irish republican cause (as did John Lennon; cf 'Give Ireland Back to the Irish') - however, it doesn't follow they were pro-IRA bombing - and it was, for them, a sincere cause. Why s this cause any worse than any other cause. Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

Supporting the Ulster Unionists was surely not much better?

I hasten to say, I will keep out of the Irish Question.

There was the SDLP at the time. Sinn Fein is now well embedded in the peace process.

 

[angrysoba]

I was very young, had Irish friends who were very passionate about the Ireland issue.

So? Half my family are Irish. It doesn't mean - or shouldn't mean - we would give money to the IRA.

In my part of London, we have a large hostel for single men, which is filled with Irish immigrants who, when they came to England to build the roads and infrastructure, could only get casual, cash in hand jobs, thus never were able to get a mortgage, etc.,etc. Their second-third generation children had sympathy for the Irish republican cause (as did John Lennon; cf 'Give Ireland Back to the Irish') - however, it doesn't follow they were pro-IRA bombing - and it was, for them, a sincere cause. Why s this cause any worse than any other cause. Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

It's by Paul McCartney, actually.

Supporting the Ulster Unionists was surely not much better?

Who said anything about supporting them being any better?

I hasten to say, I will keep out of the Irish Question.

Remember that next time someone passes around a bucket for the cause.