Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

If party members were to select (again) a leader who they know would deliver them a third fewer votes than at the last election, and therefore guarantee a Conservative government for the foreseeable future, then they are terminally stupid and their party deserves to die.

If the Labour Party wants to appoint an electable leader it will have to break tradition and choose a Tory MP to be the leader.

Presumably that would work for you since all that matters is whether people would vote for them and not what the party is supposed to represent?

 

[GlennB]

If the Labour Party wants to appoint an electable leader it will have to break tradition and choose a Tory MP to be the leader.

Presumably that would work for you since all that matters is whether people would vote for them and not what the party is supposed to represent?

How about the SNP spreads its tentacles south of the border? Calling itself the BNP wouldn't work, but how about UKNP?

This post began as a joke, but now I'm not so sure. Have a word with Nicola if you'd be so kind

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

How about the SNP spreads its tentacles south of the border? Calling itself the BNP wouldn't work, but how about UKNP?

This post began as a joke, but now I'm not so sure. Have a word with Nicola if you'd be so kind

Let us get out first then you can all vote to join us.

But the rule is we get first dibs on any Euro/World Cup places anyone wins.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If party members were to select (again) a leader who they know would deliver them a third fewer votes than at the last election, and therefore guarantee a Conservative government for the foreseeable future, then they are terminally stupid and their party deserves to die.

Ithought that you supported a party because of its beliefs, principles and politics, not it's popularity.
What's the point of voting for a party if it is just going to copy the Tories?

 

[Giz]

Telegraph is reporting that emails show that Corbin and Milne (his communications director) deliberately weakened their leave campaign.

 

[Francesca R]

I really hope Corbyn goes soon the labour party is utterly useless with him as leader. It used to be so much better.

 

[Aber]

Obvious question: What *********** election?

Post Gordon Brown, there's a general 'you were just elected by your party's members and so aren't a real PM meme', plus an election manifesto trumps a referendum in British politics. A slight side effect would be a UKIP surge in MPs.

On the other hand is this worse than where we are currently?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I really hope Corbyn goes soon the labour party is utterly useless with him as leader. It used to be so much better.

Like the Tories you mean?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Post Gordon Brown, there's a general 'you were just elected by your party's members and so aren't a real PM meme', plus an election manifesto trumps a referendum in British politics. A slight side effect would be a UKIP surge in MPs.

On the other hand is this worse than where we are currently?

Yes but there's still no election to vote in.

 

[The Don]

Like the Tories you mean?

He just seems so lukewarm even about subjects he claims to be passionate about. He may have the right message but if he does I am not sure he can sell it.

 

[Francesca R]

Like the Tories you mean?

If by that you mean electable, yes.

Corbyn is an act of Labour Party self-harm. This was known all along. He was unelectable last year and even more unelectable now.

 

[ceptimus]

To be fair, Miliband before him was also unelectable, and none of the candidates that ran against Corbyn looked like Prime Ministerial material either.

Corbyn was elected with an overwhelming mandate by Labour Party Members. The problem with the Labour party MPs is that they are mostly Tory-Lite and out of step with their members. Worse than that, they're out of step with their voters.

If Labour party MPs can't accept the views of their members they have four choices:

1. Retire from politics.
2. Join another party.
3. Form a new party.
4. Modify the views of their members.

For the last ten years they've been trying number 4. It's not worked at all well for them so far...

 

[jimbob]

Telegraph is reporting that emails show that Corbin and Milne (his communications director) deliberately weakened their leave campaign.

Also leaked to the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

Seamus Milne is pretty poisonous.

I really hope Corbyn goes soon the labour party is utterly useless with him as leader. It used to be so much better.

Yes, regardless of one's actual views, a competent opposition keeps the government on their toes.

He just seems so lukewarm even about subjects he claims to be passionate about. He may have the right message but if he does I am not sure he can sell it.

He's a not terribly bright student-union politician who has somehow escaped into the real world. Given his choice of close advisors and ties to Militant, sorry, Momentum, slip of the keyboard there, it's quite good that he seems ineffective.

If by that you mean electable, yes.

Corbyn is an act of Labour Party self-harm. This was known all along. He was unelectable last year and even more unelectable now.

Yes. Every open goal the government has handed him, he's taken the opportunity to go off on something else, usually something which is anathema to those voters he needs to win over (and indeed many traditional Labour voters).

 

[MikeG]

Ithought that you supported a party because of its beliefs, principles and politics, not it's popularity.
What's the point of voting for a party if it is just going to copy the Tories?

Huh?

Somewhere I said something about the sort of direction Labour should take, did I? Perhaps you'd point that out for me. It seems self-evident to me that choosing a leader who gives the party a chance of relevance or even power is better than choosing a leader who consigns the party to oblivion. Obviously you think that principled oblivion and permanent unopposed Tory rule is the preferable option. I very much don't.

 

[jimbob]

Huh?

Somewhere I said something about the sort of direction Labour should take, did I? Perhaps you'd point that out for me. It seems self-evident to me that choosing a leader who gives the party a chance of relevance or even power is better than choosing a leader who consigns the party to oblivion. Obviously you think that principled oblivion and permanent unopposed Tory rule is the preferable option. I very much don't.

Yes, Trident for example. There is no point in saying that you will remove Trident if you get into power, if that statement on its own would be sufficient to prevent you form winning a general election.

 

[Francesca R]

If Labour party MPs can't accept the views of their members they have four choices:

1. Retire from politics.
2. Join another party.
3. Form a new party.
4. Modify the views of their members.

For the last ten years they've been trying number 4. It's not worked at all well for them so far...

True. Or the members could leave I suppose. Especially when so many of them apparently joined to get Corbyn made leader.

 

[MikeG]

The current score is 9 resigned, one sacked. To lose one Shadow Cabinet member in a day is careless. To lose 10, in any logical world, should be terminal.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yes, Trident for example. There is no point in saying that you will remove Trident if you get into power, if that statement on its own would be sufficient to prevent you form winning a general election.

While a credible opposition is a good thing both elements need to be there. Opposition but not credible is bad as people here point out, but credible and not really in opposition isn't any better.

Perhaps English politics has moved to the point where there does need to be a change and perhaps there is demand for another centre-right party but Labour should only become that if its members want it to be that.

Perhaps if we get Scottish independence, England can embrace it's right-of-centre nature more and rUK Labour can become a Tory-lite alternative that many seem to want or it can split into two new parties or whatever.

Labour is unelectable right now but chasing public opinion and popularity isn't really going to solve that if they don't have a clear idea what they stand for.

 

[jimbob]

From another forum

Subject: And the next Labour leader is...

Corbyn's not very good at reading the subtle signs is he?

It didn't bother me when he started that he was left wing. It does bother me that he doesn't understsnd what being a leader involves. I don't want to see a 'Blairite' leader, I want to see a leader that would, if I remember Malcolm Tucker's words correctly, "rip the opposition's head off, stuff it down its neck and spit down its throat"

 

[Agatha]

The current score is 9 resigned, one sacked. To lose one Shadow Cabinet member in a day is careless. To lose 10, in any logical world, should be terminal.

I believe it's 10 resigned, 1 sacked now.

Corbyn is facing a vote of no confidence, too. Maybe he should spend more time with his drain covers and let somebody lead the PLP who has a bit of fire and passion. He's so ineffectual and as a Eurosceptic himself, was a waste of space in the remain campaign.