Corbyn did win, what's next?

[angrysoba]

I liked this. Dennis Skinner is interviewed by BBC and he says that he would decline any ministerial positions on the grounds he doesn't agree with patronage jobs, and also optimistically suggests that Corbyn's victory in the leadership election is a victory over spin.

Then as the BBC interviewer signs off, he gets irritated by the way she span his answers:



Hmmm...I've messed up the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHGDDMAP5qU

 

[Darth Rotor]

He won, will politics be at all different now?

Why would politics change? All you have is another twit in a suit. Same thing as on our side of the pond.

 

[Christian Klippel]

Of a group that does not reflect the broader electorate.

Broad enough for that particular party. And broad enough for that party to register thousands of new members after he was voted in.

Tell me, how many new members did the other parties pull in after he got elected?

Greetings,

Chris

 

[Christian Klippel]

In what way do you think the electorate in the Labour leadership contest represents the UK general public?

As i just asked Giz:

How many new members did the other parties pull in since he was elected as leader in the Labour party? Seems, to me, that quite a large chunk of the "general public" likes him.

How comes?

Greetings,

Chris

 

[WildCat]

As i just asked Giz:

How many new members did the other parties pull in since he was elected as leader in the Labour party? Seems, to me, that quite a large chunk of the "general public" likes him.

How comes?

Greetings,

Chris

But 25% of the general public is retarded...

 

[Christian Klippel]

But 25% of the general public is retarded...

Evidence? <SNIP>

And what does it mean anyways? Is democracy a good thing only as long as the outcome is what you prefer, others be damned?

Greetings,

Chris

Edited by jsfisher: 

Edited for compliance with Rules 0 and 12 of the Membership Agreement.

 

[angrysoba]

But 25% of the general public is retarded...

If you can win all their votes then you could probably win an election as only about 60 per cent of people vote anyway. It depends upon how that 25% is distributed across constituencies.

 

[uk_dave]

sick of labour just being slightly different from the conservative party, they should be an alternative not just more of the same thing.
.

Would you rather the political parties express the more extreme left and right wing views and leave moderation in the gutter?

If political parties are fighting for the centre ground it is because that is where the majority of the electorate is to be found.

You seem to want them to be different just for the sake of being different, and that then takes us back to the divisive politics of the 70s and 80s.

And people should be careful when denigrating the achievement of Blair in the 90s. How many post war Labour governments went to second or third term?

Blair pushed Labour towards the centre ground and won, because New Labour offered the chance to have a government which wasn't committed to renationalisation, was friendly towards business and the aspirations of the majority while still socially concious about those in need within society.

If it had not been for the perception of the the basis for the Iraq war, I suspect the legacy of the Blair government would have been embraced by the current Labour party.

But now it's fashionable to be derisive about the achievements of New Labour and the Blair legacy is perceived as poisonous to Labour.

That may well be why Corby could become leader of the Labour party but I very much doubt it will propel him to leader of the country.

 

[lionking]

Would you rather the political parties express the more extreme left and right wing views and leave moderation in the gutter?

If political parties are fighting for the centre ground it is because that is where the majority of the electorate is to be found.

You seem to want them to be different just for the sake of being different, and that then takes us back to the divisive politics of the 70s and 80s.

And people should be careful when denigrating the achievement of Blair in the 90s. How many post war Labour governments went to second or third term?

Blair pushed Labour towards the centre ground and won, because New Labour offered the chance to have a government which wasn't committed to renationalisation, was friendly towards business and the aspirations of the majority while still socially concious about those in need within society.

If it had not been for the perception of the the basis for the Iraq war, I suspect the legacy of the Blair government would have been embraced by the current Labour party.

But now it's fashionable to be derisive about the achievements of New Labour and the Blair legacy is perceived as poisonous to Labour.

That may well be why Corby could become leader of the Labour party but I very much doubt it will propel him to leader of the country.

Very well said. I agree

 

[MikeG]

As i just asked Giz:

How many new members did the other parties pull in since he was elected as leader in the Labour party? Seems, to me, that quite a large chunk of the "general public" likes him.......

The Lib Dems have got 12,000 new members since the election. That's an increase in members of about 20%, and without giving away membership for £3. Since when did the number of members actually mean a damn thing?

It may "seem to (you)", but that isn't evidence of anything. That evidence will come in election results. Furthermore, liking Jeremy Corbyn, who is a pleasant individual and quite unlike the awful generation of talking-head list-reciting line-toeing politicians we've suffered, is a very great deal different from liking his politics. When people start seeing how much his tax plans affect them, consider what pulling out of NATO might mean for the security of the country, understand the inflation that would result from plans to dump hundreds of billions of pounds of extra spending into the economy ("quantitative easing for the people"), then any liking for Corbyn as an individual will rapidly change.

 

[angrysoba]

The Lib Dems have got 12,000 new members since the election. That's an increase in members of about 20%, and without giving away membership for £3. Since when did the number of members actually mean a damn thing?

It may "seem to (you)", but that isn't evidence of anything. That evidence will come in election results. Furthermore, liking Jeremy Corbyn, who is a pleasant individual and quite unlike the awful generation of talking-head list-reciting line-toeing politicians we've suffered, is a very great deal different from liking his politics. When people start seeing how much his tax plans affect them, consider what pulling out of NATO might mean for the security of the country, understand the inflation that would result from plans to dump hundreds of billions of pounds of extra spending into the economy ("quantitative easing for the people"), then any liking for Corbyn as an individual will rapidly change.

That's true. I think the biggest indicator of his appeal is not party membership but the numbers of people who turned up to his public meetings. In the thousands every time, or so I have read, with thousands more unable to get in.

 

[Ambrosia]

Uh-oh!

Looks like things are going tits up already:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...its-not-been-the-best-start-for-jeremy-corbyn

not read the article yet, but...

the headline is about first impressions - the top picture is of an aide fixing his hair while Corbyn walks to his next media appointment.

It's a really unflattering photo and combined with the headline implies that:

Corbyn is disorganised and his aides are patronising him

or

Corbyn has no time to try to look good, he's more concerned with being/doing good

depending on your POV.

and after reading the rest of the article. It's a behind the scenes piece about Corbyn sorting out his shadow cabinet. Though it seems to go out of it's way to paint an unflattering picture of Corbyn.

Which isn't altogether unsurprising as Corbyn has stated on numerous occasions that he dislikes the mainstream media, notably in his victory speech, so it's only natural that the media establishment are going to attack him on all sides.

In the last few days various media people are still turning somersaults, this is the biggest political story in the UK in as long as I can remember and they all seem to determined to milk the gift horse of every last golden egg they can.

The Labour party as it was last week is mostly still standing around open mouthed asking WTF just happened? The Tories don't know whether to be really happy or really scared, they seem to have settled on looking smug for the time being.

It's going to take a while for things to settle down and until they do it's hard to know what difference Corbyns leadership will make.

I think that one of the most interesting sides to the whole thing is how Corbyn vs Media is going to play out.

 

[uk_dave]

I think that one of the most interesting sides to the whole thing is how Corbyn vs Media is going to play out.

And Corbyn in Parliament.
He's providing lots of rich material (shadow chancellor in particular) for Cameron to use at PMQs, so it will be interesting to see how he performs in that arena.

 

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

Much the same this time around with Ed Balls. Both were signature moments of their respective elections, and both gave remarkably gracious speeches in defeat.

I also remember this, and the way Portillo without hesitation shook Twigg's hand and heartily congratulated him earned my respect, despite disliking everything his party stood far.

Extremely gracious in defeat, particularly compared to the blustering tirade of another loser in that same election whose name I can't remember, but I think was of the UKIP?

Portillo then went on to have a guest spot on Newsnight alongside leftist Dianne Abbot, and for two individuals who on paper seemed to come from completely opposite ends of the political spectrum, they agreed on a surprising amount.

 

[MikeG]

That's true. I think the biggest indicator of his appeal is not party membership but the numbers of people who turned up to his public meetings. In the thousands every time, or so I have read, with thousands more unable to get in.

That's missing the point entirely. The ONLY indicator of his appeal will be election results. It doesn't matter how many of the choir turn up to listen to the preacher.

 

[Lothian]

That's missing the point entirely. The ONLY indicator of his appeal will be election results. It doesn't matter how many of the choir turn up to listen to the preacher.

I disagree. If Corbyn can move the agenda to the left and either force the Tories to give more consideration to the people they have been shafting and less to the their schoolmates, or to raise public awareness that there is a different option, he will will do far more than the last labour opposition.

 

[cullennz]

State run homeopathic hospitals every where

 

[Ambrosia]

And Corbyn in Parliament.
He's providing lots of rich material (shadow chancellor in particular) for Cameron to use at PMQs, so it will be interesting to see how he performs in that arena.

His Shadow Chancellor pick is one of the reasons I admire him. He got advised from many people not to do that.

He looked at Milliband/Balls and to later Blair/Brown and decided that he wanted his strongest ally as his right hand man, and hang the consequences.

I don't agree with lots of his policies, but fair play to the man. Can we have more politicians who stand up for what they believe in please.

State run homeopathic hospitals every where

That's highly unlikely to happen.

What would be great though is if his support for homeopathy got the homeopaths on the front pages again. Lets get the quacks out front and centre and have their useless ******** ripped apart very publicly.

 

[MikeG]

I disagree. If Corbyn can move the agenda to the left and either force the Tories to give more consideration to the people they have been shafting and less to the their schoolmates, or to raise public awareness that there is a different option, he will will do far more than the last labour opposition.

How will being in opposition ever achieve this? There is a good reason that political parties seek to win office.

 

[lionking]

That's highly unlikely to happen.

What would be great though is if his support for homeopathy got the homeopaths on the front pages again. Lets get the quacks out front and centre and have their useless ******** ripped apart very publicly.

Ridiculous. Corbyn's support will give the quacks credibility. How many people do you want to die before the quacks lies are exposed?

Seriously, this is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen in politics threads. And I've seen a lot. Good on Corbyn for giving homeopathy oxygen so that people die as a result of quackery. The deaths will be worth it.:roll eyes:

I give you the opportunity to withdraw this comment of yours. If you don't it displays the stupid lengths people go to support the unsupportable.