Cops kill Costco pizza lady....

Bob001 said:
Nothing misleading. Cops did in fact shoot and kill a Costco sub-contractor who was distributing pizza samples. What is in dispute and the subject of investigation is why the woman behaved as she did and whether the cops needed to kill her. According to press reports, this Filipino-American woman was nearing the end of a normal work shift and suddenly began speaking and behaving strangely, including waving a knife around. Her supervisor called the cops and she went to an employee lounge. Within seconds after they arrived, one cop shot her five times after another tried to use a taser and it either malfunctioned or he deployed it incorrectly. She was the mother of two little girls and the ex-wife of a U.S. serviceman. Her sister had spoken to her by phone an hour before her death and detected no problems. If she had a stroke, a diabetic episode or some other medical emergency, she would not have been thinking rationally or capable of responding to police commands. She apparently never actually attempted to hurt anyone, even before the cops got there. The police themselves say she "moved toward" them holding a knife (she had been cutting pizza, remember), not rushed, not attacked. The key question is whether two trained police officers equipped with pepper spray and metal batons should have been able to disarm one sick woman who probably weighed about 90 pounds, or whether they should have backed off, cleared the area and let her rant until backup arrived. There have been too many reports of cops resorting to deadly force when they maybe didn't have to.
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It is misleading.

Also, Monday Morning Quarterbacking is fun, isn't it? You also don't cut pizza with a knife. You cut pizza with a pizza roller.
 
Bob001 said:
Actually, if I was approached (the cops themselves aren't saying attacked, and she never attacked anybody before the cops showed up) by a 90-pound woman with an obvious medical problem who was waving a knife, and I was holding a two-foot steel pipe (which is what a modern baton is), and my partner was holding his own two-foot steel pipe, I think the odds would be on my side. And videos have already been made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGgaQ07D09Y
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What would have been the "obvious medical problem"? Name the problem, and tell me the symptoms, and also show evidence that she was exhibiting those symptoms. I'll wait.
 
triforcharity said:
Also, Monday Morning Quarterbacking is fun, isn't it? You also don't cut pizza with a knife. You cut pizza with a pizza roller.
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No, I cut pizza with a knife. The 30cm blade of my chef's knife is quicker, neater, and easier to clean than the circular rotating knives you have in mind.

As has already been pointed out, commercial operations generally cut pizza with real pizza knives, which are considerably larger than my chef's knife.

I don't know what kind of knife she was using. Neither do you.
 
triforcharity said:
What would have been the "obvious medical problem"? Name the problem, and tell me the symptoms, and also show evidence that she was exhibiting those symptoms. I'll wait.
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According to press reports, she was near the end of a normal work shift in a job she had held satisfactorily since last year, when, in the space of a few minutes, she started speaking irrationally and waving a knife around. Her supervisor could have told the cops that whatever happened was out of character for her and began suddenly. Possible causes might include a reaction to prescription or illegal drugs, failure take prescribed drugs correctly, severe hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia (low or high blood sugar) or other diabetic issues, dehydration, stroke, head injury, brain tumor etc. There are countless possible causes for confusion, anxiety and paranoia. The point is that the cops responded as if she was a cornered bank robber when whatever was happening to her was most likely beyond her control. I'm not convinced that five shots was the best way or the only way to solve the problem.
 
triforcharity said:
Also, Monday Morning Quarterbacking is fun, isn't it? You also don't cut pizza with a knife. You cut pizza with a pizza roller.
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She was giving away bite-size samples, not slicing a pie. A knife would probably be as good as anything else for that purpose.

We entrust cops with the power of life and death in limited, specific circumstances. When they kill someone under color of law, we are entitled to ask whether they have abused our trust.
 
Bob001 said:
According to press reports, she was near the end of a normal work shift in a job she had held satisfactorily since last year, when, in the space of a few minutes, she started speaking irrationally and waving a knife around. Her supervisor could have told the cops that whatever happened was out of character for her and began suddenly.
<snip> .
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And get arrested for obstructing police?
 
Dessi said:
One commenter in that article says:


Between two and eight well-trained cops vs tiny Filipino woman. Were the cops really at such a serious disadvantage against a tiny Filipino woman that they couldn't subdue her by hand, or talk to this woman for an hour until she calms down?
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No because you see that would be the smart non-violent means of diffusing the situation. Cops aren't trained to do this.
 
Dessi said:
Between two and eight well-trained cops vs tiny Filipino woman. Were the cops really at such a serious disadvantage against a tiny Filipino woman that they couldn't subdue her by hand, or talk to this woman for an hour until she calms down?
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How is that supposed to work, exactly? Doesn't the person have to be interested in talking, as opposed to threatening people with knives, in order for your proposal to have any chance of success?

Of what, exactly, do you think cop training consists? Do you imagine that all cops are supposed to be knife-whisperers, or something?
 
Kahalachan said:
No because you see that would be the smart non-violent means of diffusing the situation. Cops aren't trained to do this.
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What a rubbish post. Do you think cops anywhere want to go out and kill someone if there's an alternative? Do you know anything about police training?
 
Since everyone's apparently read the same article, why are the accusations of "Monday morning quarterbacking" only being tossed at the people questioning the cops' actions?

I don't see anything in that article that shows me or any of us that she was really a threat to the public, herself or the police. Nor do I see anything in that article that proves that she wasn't.

Everyone's just speculating away, though and positive that their read on the situation is the correct one - all based on previously held beliefs, of course.

Meh? I think guilty until proven innocent applies to both sides. Not just the cops, but to the dead lady, too. I'd like to see some more evidence than the reports from the first day, though. I never understand this rush to judgement need.
 
Fair enough. My default position is to believe the police unless and until there's evidence to the contrary. It's a bias I'm well aware of.
 
lionking said:
Fair enough. My default position is to believe the police unless and until there's evidence to the contrary. It's a bias I'm well aware of.
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And being a New Yorker, I tend to go the opposite way with my bias, but I try to hold it in check.

I don't think the cops' statements were all that "accusing" of the deceased in the first place. They seem to have bent over to word the report unemotionally... not that that's indicative of anything other than bureaucrat-speak. And similarly, the comments from witnesses don't seem to indicate that anyone went running out in terror or felt that there was a deranged knife-wielder on the loose. There's just nothing "there" on either side, so I prefer to wait/see.
 
Bob001 said:
According to press reports, she was near the end of a normal work shift in a job she had held satisfactorily since last year, when, in the space of a few minutes, she started speaking irrationally and waving a knife around. Her supervisor could have told the cops that whatever happened was out of character for her and began suddenly. Possible causes might include a reaction to prescription or illegal drugs, failure take prescribed drugs correctly, severe hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia (low or high blood sugar) or other diabetic issues, dehydration, stroke, head injury, brain tumor etc. There are countless possible causes for confusion, anxiety and paranoia. The point is that the cops responded as if she was a cornered bank robber when whatever was happening to her was most likely beyond her control. I'm not convinced that five shots was the best way or the only way to solve the problem.
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So, you've got no evidence whatsoever that any of those things are actually what happened, correct? I think I'll wait till the investigation is finished before I make any conclusions. Based on the limited information we have, the woman came at/rushed/approached the police with a knife, and the police shot her. Justified IMO. Someone comes at me with a knife, I'm firing my weapon also.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I wonder why they didn't just shoot the knife out of her hand, like the Lone Ranger used to do on TV?
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I don't know why they didn't grapple the knife out of her hand like a cop used to do in real life.

Oh, wait, she could have been a terrorist with a glitterbomb that could cause an outbreak of pedophilia.
 
If the cops went in there in force and still couldn't dream up a better way of ending this than by blowing the woman away then they are are very sorry bunch of individuals.

If you support said sorry individuals, then you probably deserve them to patrol your streets too and I will have no sympathy for the likes of the supporters of this incident if you end up shot dead.

In fact, I might even allow myself to bitterly laugh at your misfortune.
 
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