Convince and Convert an Atheist

I can't speak for everyone here, but I think we could have a rational discussion without resorting to insults.
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Speaking as a theist, I'm a little "skeptical" that rational discussions about the subject won't diverge into little more than cat fights, but I'm slightly hopeful about this thread...:boxedin:
 
Beanbag said:
This is an open invitation for Christians out there to open a discussion with a true, dedicated atheist. I want to hear and understand why I should become a Christian.

This IS NOT being done in an antagonistic fashion -- I'm not out to argue with you, or attempt to convert you to my way of thinking. I want to hear from your point of view without either of us raising our hackles and spitting at each other. TALK WITH ME. I will listen and reply, either with comments or questions.

I ask that we remain civilized here. Being an open forum, remember that others can see what's going on here. If anyone begins behaving badly, I'll Ignore you, and you'll lose the opportunity. The same goes for any "nonbelievers" -- I don't want this thread derailed and taken off too the wild blue whatever.

These are the starting conditions. I'll give you some information about my personal beliefs in the following post.

Regards;
Beanbag
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As I told The Atheist when this topic first came up in an area where I was having a discussion, I think it a fool's errand to try and spread the Faith via internet argument. IMO, the best way it happens is in person, via a witness that has integrity.

So, no, not wasting my time, nor yours. Faith isn't some intellectual exercise.

DR
 
Cosmo said:
Are these two groups not representative of the internet at large?
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I'd say no. In my experiences on some Christian boards, I met a number of people who were thoughtful and fairly bright, but would hem and haw around basic Christian beliefs if pressed. They would not claim that they had truth, but would say the equivalent of "It's true for me," and that would be it. They left it to others to pound out the specifics of their "beliefs"

It is true that the internet does see a preponderance of people who hold strong beliefs, but they are not ubiquitous. The moderates are scarcely heard among the din of the ends.
 
Darth Rotor said:
As I told The Atheist when this topic first came up in an area where I was having a discussion, I think it a fool's errand to try and spread the Faith via internet argument. IMO, the best way it happens is in person, via a witness that has integrity.

So, no, not wasting my time, nor yours. Faith isn't some intellectual exercise.

DR
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Did we have this discussion before? Should I go stand in the corner until I've learned my lesson? One of these days I might listen to wise counsel...:o
 
Darth Rotor said:
As I told The Atheist when this topic first came up in an area where I was having a discussion, I think it a fool's errand to try and spread the Faith via internet argument. IMO, the best way it happens is in person, via a witness that has integrity.

So, no, not wasting my time, nor yours. Faith isn't some intellectual exercise.

DR
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What is it about seeing someone in person that makes arguments more convincing than reading their words?
 
Blutarsky said:
If that is what you think it says, you are misunderstanding the argument entirely.
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I'll tell you what, I'll drop the whole horse thing.
The argument given hinges on the idea that we can, to some degree, objectively recognise something not part of this world and determine how true something in front of us is true to this ideal. If the comparison with unicorns bugs you than consider the platonic shapes. A perfect sphere can not exist nor a triangle but that doesn't stop us recognising a deflated football as non-spherical or even as less spherical than it should be.

I assume that as with the unicorns you wouldn't consider this evidence of god, so why is justice any different?
 
If you're posting here I see only two alternatives...

1) Remain atheist/agnostic

2) Accept that god(s) exist, but know that there is no true understanding of what he/they want of us.

I don't see any other alternative given the variety of choices for the concept of god and then among those choices, all the sub choices. Clearly Christians have NO IDEA WHAT GOD THINKS as religious ideas vary widely... nor do Jews... nor do Muslims.
 
DangerousBeliefs said:
I don't see any other alternative given the variety of choices for the concept of god and then among those choices, all the sub choices. Clearly Christians have NO IDEA WHAT GOD THINKS as religious ideas vary widely... nor do Jews... nor do Muslims.
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You could always become a Deist.

God created everything and then said, "To hell with this, I'm going to play my Playstation 2".
 
Darth Rotor said:
As I told The Atheist when this topic first came up in an area where I was having a discussion, I think it a fool's errand to try and spread the Faith via internet argument. IMO, the best way it happens is in person, via a witness that has integrity.

So, no, not wasting my time, nor yours. Faith isn't some intellectual exercise.

DR
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This really isn't supposed to be a matter of faith (no pun intended). This is a matter of gaining understanding. When I want to learn about Islam, I go to the local mosque and talk with an imam or someone who is a "native speaker" of the religion. It's all too easy to pick up a book on Islam and get a Christian or non-Islamic interpretation of the religion (think the works of Led Zepplin reviewed by Van Cliburn). The hope was to keep things civil and fairly intellectual. I freely admit the likelihood of my grasping faith from this thread is very unlikely, but I would like to at least come away better informed.

Regards;
Beanbag
 
Blutarsky said:
Speaking as a theist, I'm a little "skeptical" that rational discussions about the subject won't diverge into little more than cat fights, but I'm slightly hopeful about this thread...:boxedin:
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I realize completely that this thread would be very easy for one or two persons to derail. Perhaps I'm foolish enough to hope people will have some respect for the intent.

Beanbag
 
phildonnia said:
Problem is, I've never felt that deep abiding conviction that really is the essence of Christian faith. Not that I didn't spend at least two decades of my life lying to myself about it.
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Don't feel like you're alone -- I've spent a lot of time on the outside, looking in.

Beanbag
 
You should become a Christian because Jesus loves you, and the only way to salvation is to believe in Him:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
 
RationalReverend said:
Beanbag, if your interest is genuine, then feel free to PM me and we can have a discussion via that route.
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This was supposed to be a more open discussion. Having seen some of the responses directed your way in other threads, I can understand your skepticism about my intentions. Frankly, I'm a bit curious to see how this thread works out.

Beanbag
 
mfaison said:
You should become a Christian because Jesus loves you, and the only way to salvation is to believe in Him:
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How are you so sure that the Christian Hell exists, though?

(Honest question, honestly).
 
Lonewulf said:
How are you so sure that the Christian Hell exists, though?

(Honest question, honestly).
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I don't think it's actually a certainty in Christian theology. "Salvation" could be just salvation from non-existence.

Jesus certainly talks about the fire of hell (Mt. 5:22, Mk 9:43), but there's also Matthew 10:28:

"Be afraid of the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell..."

Whether hell is eternal punishment or non-existence, the only way to eternal life is through Jesus.
 
mfaison said:
You should become a Christian because Jesus loves you, and the only way to salvation is to believe in Him:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
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That's standard Fundie Answer #485. I have to ask: just because somebody did something that I didn't ask for, and didn't necessarily want in the first place, why should I climb aboard the movement? You need to understand that while I'm not actively pursuing the end of my life, I'm not exactly terrified of it happening.

Frankly, the two choices offered by Standard Christianity (either heaven or hell) don't appeal to me. Neither option has any definite evidence that they exist. I go with what I know: I have no memories, good or bad, of before I was born and my consciousness switched on. I suspect it will be the same after I've died. Just nothingness. I get a certain amount of comfort from this concept.

There has to be a better, more compelling reason.

Beanbag
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
www.christianforums.com

There are a number of forums there specifically dedicated to just these sorts of conversations.
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Yeah, but I'd rather keep it in the family. I've found it easier to connect with the people here. JREF works as a prefilter of sorts. While there are a few people here that get on my nerves, for the most part I like the folks here.

Beanbag
 
Glen.Nogami said:
What is it about seeing someone in person that makes arguments more convincing than reading their words?
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There's a total lack of nonverbal feedback and other cues that provide at least a third of the "understanding." Smilies can only do so much.

Beanbag
 
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