Continued: (Ed) Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[Belz...]

Here you go: http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/corner_2

That's nice. Which one of those definitions are you using?

 

[d4m10n]

Lots of people feel uncomfortable about a wide range of things. So what?

I try to avoid creating situations which would make someone uncomfortable, unless there is a compelling reason to do so. Hoping to have sex with a glamorous stranger, while understandable, does not strike me as particularly compelling.

That's nice. Which one of those definitions are you using?

1a & 1b

Are you now going to imply that the French Press is a new coffee invention...

I am implying that the prescence of a high-end coffee maker doesn't much raise the probability that EG was making an offer of coffee and conversation and nothing more. Presumably you agree with me on this point, since you opted to discuss my sex life rather than my experience of coffee klatsches.

How long, between the doors closing, the request, and the doors opening on the next floor do you think this took?

Depends on the make and model of the elevator. I'd be happy to do the research next time I visit, or we can ask one of our friends at Atheist Ireland to have a look into this compelling and highly salient problem.

 

[wareyin]

I try to avoid creating situations which would make someone uncomfortable, unless there is a compelling reason to do so. Hoping to have sex with a glamorous stranger, while understandable, does not strike me as particularly compelling.

I think I see the problem.

I am implying that the prescence of a high-end coffee maker doesn't much raise the probability that EG was making an offer of coffee and conversation and nothing more. Presumably you agree with me on this point, since you opted to discuss my sex life rather than my experience of coffee klatsches.

Your experience of coffee makers and sitting areas in hotel rooms was demonstrably lacking for this conversation. Further, your unfamiliarity with coffee makers and sitting areas was exactly what I was discussing.

Depends on the make and model of the elevator. I'd be happy to do the research next time I visit, or I can ask one of our friends at Atheist Ireland to have a look into this compelling and highly salient problem.

Is this an admission that your knowledge of the elevator in question was lacking before you decided to make claims about being cornered in it? That sort of an admission would be salient.

 

[Belz...]

1a & 1b

I don't see how 1a applies. 1b barely qualifies, as she didn't have to answer him at all, and all he wanted was to address her (at that time).

 

[d4m10n]

Your experience of coffee makers and sitting areas in hotel rooms was demonstrably lacking for this conversation.

Granted. Does the presence of a high-end french press significantly alter the probability that Elevator Guy was hoping for something more than conversation? If so, how much?

Similarly, does the length of the elevator ride change whether it is gauche to ask someone back to your room when you've yet to establish any rapport?

It looks to me like you're desperately grasping at straws here.

 

[wareyin]

Granted. Does the presence of a high-end french press significantly alter the probability that Elevator Guy was hoping for something more than conversation? If so, how much?

Does this mean you are backing down from your stance that the guy couldn't have been asking for coffee as there was no good coffee maker or place to sit?

We have a lot to establish before we could begin to calculate the probability that EG was after something other than what was stated. Whether the person ever existed, for one, which I highly doubt.

Similarly, does the length of the elevator ride change whether it is gauche to ask someone back to your room when you've yet to establish any rapport?

Who made that claim? The length of the elevator ride changes whether one is cornered, which was your claim. I timed my elevator ride this afternoon. 7 seconds to go 4 floors. That leaves barely enough time for EG, if he existed at all, to have asked Watson, assuming similar speeds at a one floor ride.

It looks to me like you're desperately grasping at straws here.

Cute. The one who has been demonstrably wrong, or ignorant, of everything he wants to lecture others about claims the one proving d4m10n wrong is the one grasping at straws. This is either an attempt to save face, or you are as ignorant of how this works as you are coffee, sitting spaces, elevators, and sexual requests.

 

[d4m10n]

Does this mean you are backing down from your stance that the guy couldn't have been asking for coffee as there was no good coffee maker or place to sit?

I never said EG could not possibly have been asking for coffee. I did say that the question, as related to us by RW, sounds very much like "Would you like to come up and see my etchings?" It was, in my best estimation, a veiled sexual request.

Sort of like the one described in this American sitcom:

We have a lot to establish before we could begin to calculate the probability that EG was after something other than what was stated. Whether the person ever existed, for one, which I highly doubt.

It is your theory that Rebecca Watson made the whole thing up? She must be one helluva diabolical genius, to craft a story that we'd keep arguing about for years on end.

The length of the elevator ride changes whether one is cornered, which was your claim. I timed my elevator ride this afternoon. 7 seconds to go 4 floors. That leaves barely enough time for EG, if he existed at all, to have asked Watson, assuming similar speeds at a one floor ride.

Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams. Tested it myself.

The one who has been demonstrably wrong, or ignorant, of everything he wants to lecture others about...

Does this so-called lecturing make you emotionally uncomfortable? You seem fairly put out about it, as if you've been forced to listen to something you find unpleasant to contemplate.

"Guys, don't do that."

TRIGGERED

 

[Meed]

I am implying that the prescence of a high-end coffee maker doesn't much raise the probability that EG was making an offer of coffee and conversation and nothing more.

Indeed. But you were the one who introduced the subject. Presumably because you thought it was of some importance (I personally don't think it is):

"Coffee makers are usually a rudimentary one cup affair. Beds are generally the main event."​

Granted. Does the presence of a high-end french press significantly alter the probability that Elevator Guy was hoping for something more than conversation? If so, how much?

There's a big difference between "hoping" and "cold propositioning". The latter happens to be the thing that was actually under discussion.

 

[d4m10n]

Indeed. But you were the one who introduced the subject. Presumably because you thought it was of some importance...

I certainly would be more tempted to join a stranger for coffee and conversation (and nothing more) if I knew he or she was using a French press instead of, say, a Keurig.

That said, the question as related to us by RW still seems like a thinly veiled sexual proposition to me. To argue otherwise seems disingenuous, from where I'm sitting.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

In that case, we can be confident that our mystery host was hoping merely for coffee and chit-chat. Probably just a weird inconvenience that this banter would happen in private with a bed close to hand.

Do you seriously believe this, or are you just trolling?

EDIT: Are you familiar with the idea of an indirect speech act? Here is a brief primer.





You claimed that there was a "whole year of the sexual harassment" and then gave me a bunch of links which had nothing to do with sexual harassment. Why?

Dude, if you can't be bothered to look into an entire episode that split the skeptic and atheist community into dueling factions, oh my word, do you even know what the whole A+ and the FTB are all about? What?

Are you under the impression this was only about elevatorgate?

I'm floored and frankly not going to waste my time bringing you up to speed in the Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB) Thread.

 

[wareyin]

I never said EG could not possibly have been asking for coffee. I did say that the question, as related to us by RW, sounds very much like "Would you like to come up and see my etchings?" It was, in my best estimation, a veiled sexual request.

The problem with this is that, by your own admission, your experience is lacking in this respect. Why you insist that your inexperienced estimates are enough to explain to other, more knowledgeable people is what I was remarking on. But do continue if it amuses you. It sure amuses me.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The claim was that an invitation for coffee shouldn't be assumed to be a proposition for sex....

Not to mention the irony, RW is to be believed but the guy in the elevator, not so much.

 

[Belz...]

I never said EG could not possibly have been asking for coffee. I did say that the question, as related to us by RW, sounds very much like "Would you like to come up and see my etchings?" It was, in my best estimation, a veiled sexual request.

There're good odds that it was. Maybe it wasn't. So what?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Um. Ireland is a foreign country if you aren't from Ireland. It may be more similar to the US than a lot of other countries are, but this still seems like an odd line of critique.

I get that, but I've traveled to a dozen+ countries on 4 continents and emphasizing this occurred "in a foreign country" is like saying going to Canada is scary and dangerous for an American.

It may be literally true, but the attempt to pad the distress by playing that angle up is dishonest.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I agree that it wasn't a comment that should have generated a bunch of drama, but I think it was more the Stef McGraw thing that made the drama blow up. Further fueled by Myers, Dawkins and others.

Exactly.

 

[Meed]

That said, the question as related to us by RW still seems like a thinly veiled sexual proposition to me. To argue otherwise seems disingenuous, from where I'm sitting.

I can promise you I'm not being disingenuous. Maybe different life experiences have lead you to feel comfortable assuming that an offer for coffee (under those circumstances) is "a cold proposition for sex" and me to feel otherwise. But if my position is so absurd as to not seem genuine, then I don't understand why you keep misrepresenting it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It is reasonable and acceptable to avoid making people feel strongly uncomfortable, unless there is some compelling reason to do so.

Because it is foreseeable that it would make someone uncomfortable.

You know, years back before Linda (fls) left the forum, she had one of the best answers to this.

She asked, what should she tell her 20 something yr old son how to act when such benign encounters were taken as sexual harassment?

For all the people that embellish the encounter as you did below, There are more people who think it's ludicrous to tell guys to never approach a female they are interested in, lest she be frightened and uncomfortable.

Do they enjoy being cornered by strangers and asked for coffee sex without having any prior emotional connection?

Evidence?
Exaggerate much?


In my feminist POV, how mousy are you if you can't brush off a guy making a pass at you without telling the entire male population they shouldn't dare make a pass at a gal they haven't been introduced to. How shall we clarify those rules?

Never talk to a gal alone in an elevator?
Never talk to a gal after ?? midnight? after 4am?
Never ask a gal to your hotel room for coffee and conversation?

So then, what about all the women who wouldn't be bothered by this? We don't count because a bunch of radical feminists see every pass a guy makes as a come-on for sex?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What a happy coincidence for ElevatorGuy to just happen to be in the same lift as the woman he failed to chat up at the bar.

Oh now he's a stalker? He couldn't have also been going to his room as the bar crowd broke up?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It doesn't, usually. Most approaches are made in public spaces with plenty of room to walk away.

You should get on an elevator the next time you have a chance and time how long it takes to go up one floor. I'm going to guess about 30 seconds.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Granted. Does the presence of a high-end french press significantly alter the probability that Elevator Guy was hoping for something more than conversation? ...

Evidence?

You know you got none.

RW Glamorous?

She's not ugly, she has a following. But glamorous?

No.