Continued: (Ed) Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

I think part of what contributes to the controversy in this case is the conduit through which it became public: PZ Myers. He is perhaps the most prominent traitor to the causes of skepticism and freethought. Primarily a big loser with an ax to grind against more successful conference-circuit skeptics, in the past he proudly prevented the reporting of what he claimed was a false rape allegation against him by a disgruntled student. He has no credibility and his comeupance cannot occur too soon.
 
Scopedog said:
I think part of what contributes to the controversy in this case is the conduit through which it became public: PZ Myers.
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The problem here is much larger than just PZ. Many other bloggers at FtB (and elsewhere) are perfectly willing to engage in trial by internet and the public shaming of anyone who doesn't unquestioningly believe the accusations which have been put forth.

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Truth be told, commenters are often the most toxic of all. They are the ones who enforce the epistemology of guilty until proven right-thinking by letting loose with bizarre rhetoric about privileged **** lords who should suffer from porcupine suppositories. To them, that sort of disturbing fantasy violence is justified in the name of punching up against oppression, rather than indicative of deep-seated unresolved issues.

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d4m10n said:
The problem here is much larger than just PZ. Many other bloggers at FtB (and elsewhere) are perfectly willing to engage in trial by internet and the public shaming of anyone who doesn't unquestioningly believe the accusations which have been put forth.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33128[/qimg]

Truth be told, commenters are often the most toxic of all. They are the ones who enforce the epistemology of guilty until proven right-thinking by letting loose with bizarre rhetoric about privileged **** lords who should suffer from porcupine suppositories. To them, that sort of disturbing fantasy violence is justified in the name of punching up against oppression, rather than indicative of deep-seated unresolved issues.
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More importantly, they are neither skeptics nor free-thinkers. (How did your comment get past the autocensor? Do you have profanity privilege?)

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d4m10n said:
The problem with taking this approach (where you act on the information given as if it is most probably true) is that you need to set a somewhat higher evidential bar than "I heard on Tumblr he's a skeevy dude who liberally refills wine."
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If you completely discount the testimonies of the various victims, then that certainly is a problem.
 
devnull said:
If you completely discount the testimonies of the various victims, then that certainly is a problem.
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Would that be the various anonymous, unverified testimonies? The ones that include claims of almost being groped*, as well as nefariously topping off wine glasses openly and obviously as any good host would?



*eta: almost, but not really
 
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devnull said:
If you completely discount the testimonies of the various victims, then that certainly is a problem.
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I reserve the right to discount any "testimony" given anonymously on a rage blog or a Tumblr dedicated to consequence-free character assassination. If you want to discuss the named victims, feel free.
 
Saw this on some youtube comments and I think it says it all

"First they came for the Atheists, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Atheist.
Then they came for the Gamers, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Gamer.
Then they came for the Metal Heads, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Metal Head.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
 
pipelineaudio said:
Saw this on some youtube comments and I think it says it all

"First they came for the Atheists, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Atheist.
Then they came for the Gamers, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Gamer.
Then they came for the Metal Heads, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Metal Head.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
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Yeah, it says that people who comment on YouTube videos have no sense of perspective.

I really can't think of a more cliche'd version of Godwin's law than the Niemoller poem. Hell, it's a cliche even when people are being oppressed.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Saw this on some youtube comments and I think it says it all

"First they came for the Atheists, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Atheist.
Then they came for the Gamers, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Gamer.
Then they came for the Metal Heads, and I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Metal Head.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."
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This is from the perspective of a critical thinker or a Warrior?
 
I don't see any problem with invoking the Niemöller bit against anyone who actively suppresses their ideological opponents, one after another.

https://storify.com/D4M10N/whom-will-they-target-next

If we are going to apply the lessons of history, we may as well apply them to our own communities. No need to wait for the next full-blown genocide or global war.
 
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d4m10n said:
I don't see any problem with invoking the Niemöller bit
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I'm sure that you don't. It's still a Godwin, though.

The notion that atheists, gamers or metalheads are being treated anywhere near like what Jews dealt with in Germany (even pre-Holocaust) fails the laugh test.
 
Cleon said:
I'm sure that you don't. It's still a Godwin, though.
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It sure is. So what?

Cleon said:
The notion that atheists, gamers or metalheads are being treated anywhere near like what Jews dealt with in Germany (even pre-Holocaust) fails the laugh test.
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No one is saying that the social justice culture warriors encroaching on atheism, gaming, and SFF are LITERALLY HITLER. The point of invoking the poem is to show that political apathy in the face of an obvious pattern may come back to bite people who thought their group was safe.
 
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