Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[Sol88]

TBH I don't really care what you read. It's a dead argument. Ice grains at Tempel 1, ice grains at Hartley 2, and subsurface ice detected by MIRO at 67P. Game was over years ago.
However, if you want something to read, try this: http://experimentos.labpsico.deusto.es/www.labpsico.deusto.es/articulos/Matute et al. (2010).pdf

Ice grains at Tempel 1, ice grains at Hartley 2

So, why would that be a surprise, Jonedave116? Seems water ice is ubiquitous, at least in our neck of the woods!

Sublimating "Ice" is not necessary to detect water ice grains

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment

Saturn’s rings, terrestrial polar mesospheric clouds, and astrophysical molecular clouds are all dusty plasma environments where tiny grains of water ice are an important constituent.

5. Conclusion

[17] Our results demonstrate that ice grains spontaneously form in a suitably cooled plasma containing water vapour. No external nucleation material is required, i.e., homogeneous ionic nucleation takes place. Furthermore, the ice grains are aspherical when the background pressure is lower than a certain pressure and presumably this aspherical shape develops soon after nucleation rather than later when the grains are large. This result implies that it is plausible that aspherical ice grains are common in naturally occurring plasmas (Saturn’s rings, polar mesosphere clouds, and molecular clouds) in which case existing models assuming spherical grains would have to be revised.

So I guess it is EXPECTED in the electric comet model that there would be ICEY grains in/on and around the nucleus, just not in the required amounts to support the highly energetic "jets" observed for some time @67P!!

just say'n...


PS Charging of ice grains by low-energy plasmas: Application to Saturn's E ring is an interesting read as well

 

[jonesdave116]

just say'n...

14 months and still zero evidence. And still quoting things that have absolutely nothing to do with comets. Remember, your high priest himself said: "The cathode jets strip and ionize atoms of oxygen from minerals on the comet and accelerate the negative ions away in a fine jet. The oxygen ions then combine with the protons in the solar wind to form the hydroxyl radical, OH, which was mistakenly assumed to be evidence of an ultraviolet breakdown product of water molecules from the comet. Oxygen and hydrogen have both been found in the comet’s coma, by the Rosetta ultraviolet spectrometer."

Are you saying the idiot was wrong? Won't you get excommunicated for that?
So basically you're finally agreeing that comets are dust and ice, but you're still having a hard time understanding sublimation?
That's progress, I guess.
And, yes, the quantities are well constrained, and fit just fine with sublimation. No electric woo seen though. And it would be. No variable charge at different distances from the Sun, anyway. Despite 5+ decades of spaceflight.
It's like arguing with a YEC; "The Earth is 10 000 years old. Forget your radioactive dating, God just made it like that as a test of faith."
That's all you've got; faith. No evidence.
Bit of a pointless argument really. You can never convince evangelicals. And I'm not just talking about the YECs

 

[tusenfem]

Ice grains at Tempel 1, ice grains at Hartley 2

So, why would that be a surprise, Jonedave116? Seems water ice is ubiquitous, at least in our neck of the woods!

Sublimating "Ice" is not necessary to detect water ice grains

So I guess it is EXPECTED in the electric comet model that there would be ICEY grains in/on and around the nucleus, just not in the required amounts to support the highly energetic "jets" observed for some time @67P!!

And where dost thou obtain ye olde water vapour to create ice grains in sufficiently cold plasma????????

So, now the EC is expecting ice grains? And here I thought there is no ice in the EC, and no water but OH.

Seems like EC is moving slowly more towards the mainstream cometary model, as time and again observations negate the EC requirements.

 

[aleCcowaN]

And where dost thou obtain ye olde water vapour to create ice grains in sufficiently cold plasma????????

The more people ignore, the more they can become good Hollywood scriptwriters. Sol88/Haig is good at that.

Deedly-dee, plasma!

 

[jonesdave116]

And where dost thou obtain ye olde water vapour to create ice grains in sufficiently cold plasma????????

The Electric God provides it. Or magic. Doesn't really matter to Sol. As long as he believes.

 

[ferd burfle]

So I guess it is EXPECTED in the electric comet model...

Newtonian gravity
Nuclear fusion
Protoplanetary disk
electric comet model

One of these things is not like the others...

 

[Reality Check]

Put the same key words into this paper, 'ol mate!

DUSTY PLASMA EFFECTS IN COMETS:
EXPECTATIONS FOR ROSETTA

Please tell us this is not the stupidity of not expecting DUSTY PLASMA to appear in a paper about DUSTY PLASMA, Sol88 !
We know that this is just a stupid question to distract us from your delusions about comets: they are rocks with electrical discharges that were blasted out of planet surfaces in historical times.

A list of 29 items of ignorance. lies and delusions from Sol88 over the last 6 years.

1. 4 November 2015 Sol88: What is the electric comet explanation for the origin of some jets from the walls of pits on 67P?
2. 4 November 2015 Sol88: What is the electric comet explanation for the locations that jets have been traced to on 67P (the neck, not highest points)?
3. 4 November 2015 Sol88: Do you understand the idiocy of that question about a hypothetical mainstream mechanism for narrow jets on Comet 19P?
4. 4 November 2015 Sol88: David Talbott is deluded enough to extend the fantasies of Immanuel Velikovsky.
5. 4 November 2015 Sol88: Wal Thornhill is a follower of the fantasies of Immanuel Velikovsky.
6. 5 November 2015 Sol88: Yet another repeated, irrelevant question about the mainstream science of comets and their jets!
7. 6 November 2015 Sol88: It is a lie that there are no explanations about how comet "jets are formed, maintained and collimated".
8. 6 November 2015 Sol88: The expectation of seeing DUSTY PLASMA, etc. in a paper about Geologic control of jet formation on Comet 103P/Hartley 2!

130 days and counting of fear of physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: A lie about the contents of a dusty plasma video

Dust jets from subsurface "ice" chambers is getting harder to swallow by the minute!

You are lying about that video, Sol88, because that video is nothing to do with your delusions about comets and especially ""subsurface "ice" chambers".
Mihály Horányi: Dusty Plasma Processes

Dr. Mihály Horányi, PI of the Colorado Center for Lunar Dust and Atmospheric Studies (CCLDAS), discusses dusty plasma processes on the surfaces on airless planetary objects with a group of science communicators on July 21, 2012.

(my emphasis added)
9 November 2015 Sol88: A lie about the contents of a dusty plasma video which is about the dusty plasma processes on the surfaces on airless planetary objects (i.e. not comets).

 

[Reality Check]

Black Holes = http://experimentos.labpsico.deusto....(2010).pdf

Sol88: Illusions of causality at the heart of pseudoscience is about people like the Thunderbolts cult and methods to reduce the delusions.
Like the delusion that the paper is about black holes !

 

[Reality Check]

Ice grains at Tempel 1, ice grains at Hartley 2

Yes, Sol88: Ice found whenever we look at comets. Water and other ices are ubiquitous on comets because they are mostly mada of ices. Some of that ice is detected as grains.

Spontaneous formation of nonspherical water ice grains in a plasma environment is science about a water ice dusty plasma experiment - not your delusions about comets, Sol88.
The stupidity of thinking that Saturn's rings are comets should be obvious, especially when you double up with Charging of ice grains by low-energy plasmas: Application to Saturn's E ring

There is a possibility that existing ice grains as detected at various comets could be non-spherical or charged in the coma of a comet. We have detected charged dust particles at 67P.

 

[Sol88]

The Electric God provides it. Or magic. Doesn't really matter to Sol. As long as he believes.

Ummm...from the same process as How The Moon Produces Its Own Water

Summary:
The Moon is a big sponge that absorbs electrically charged particles given out by the Sun. These particles interact with the oxygen present in some dust grains on the lunar surface, producing water. This discovery, made by the ESA-ISRO instrument SARA onboard the Indian Chandrayaan-1 lunar orbiter, confirms how water is likely being created on the lunar surface.

It's all there

The lunar COMETS surface is a loose collection of irregular dust grains, known as regolith. Incoming particles should be trapped in the spaces between the grains and absorbed. When this happens to protons they are expected to interact with the oxygen in the lunar COMETS regolith to produce hydroxyl and water and ICE. The signature for these molecules was recently found and reported by Rosettas ALICE instrument

My bolding.

Mobs of all the ingredients to make H2O

Along with the electric fields necessary to move, levitate, loft and accelerate dust off the surface of 67P!

 

[Sol88]

"We found that the object reflects about six percent of the light it receives from the sun," said Vishnu Reddy, a research scientist at the Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, Arizona. "That is similar to fresh asphalt, and while here on Earth we think that is pretty dark, it is brighter than a typical comet which reflects only 3 to 5 percent of the light. That suggests it could be cometary in origin -- but as there is no coma evident, the conclusion is it is a dead comet."

LINK

Ummm.. that's a problem for the dirtysnowballs that are 85% porous and contain high temperature minerals and in situ detection of oxygen molecules!!!

Scientists have long thought of comets as cold, billowing clouds of ice, dust and gases formed on the edges of the solar system. But comets may not be so simple or similar. They may prove to be diverse bodies with complex histories. Comet Wild 2 certainly is made up of components with a more complex history than thought

Looks like SCIENTISTS THOUGHT WRONG!

Another nail

 

[jonesdave116]

Ummm...from the same process as How The Moon Produces Its Own Water





It's all there

My bolding.

Mobs of all the ingredients to make H2O

Along with the electric fields necessary to move, levitate, loft and accelerate dust off the surface of 67P!

More nonsense. As has already been pointed out ad nauseam, the solar wind is nowhere near dense enough, by umpteen orders of magnitude, to account for just 1 litre of H2O production. How about the 100+ l/s that were seen at perihelion? Or the 30 000 l/s at Halley? Or the 200 000 l/s at Hale-Bopp?

Try again.

 

[aleCcowaN]

contain high temperature minerals and in situ detection of oxygen molecules!!!

You a funny man! You have the talent to make an asteroid look like a box or breakfast cereal for kids or a piñata.

 

[jonesdave116]

Looks like SCIENTISTS THOUGHT WRONG!

Another nail

Why?
And what do you mean, another nail? You mean compared to the totally unevidenced electric comet nonsense? Which part of comets being ice and dust, with low density, with sublimation occurring, and ice beneath the surface would you like FURTHER proof of?

Seems to me like they've got rather a lot of it. Unlike some.

Try again.

 

[tusenfem]

Ummm...from the same process as How The Moon Produces Its Own Water


It's all there

My bolding.

Mobs of all the ingredients to make H2O

Along with the electric fields necessary to move, levitate, loft and accelerate dust off the surface of 67P!

Been there, done that, does not compute, try again.

 

[ferd burfle]

Ummm...from the same process as How The Moon Produces Its Own Water


<<summary quote snipped>>


It's all there

The lunar COMETS surface is a loose collection of irregular dust grains, known as regolith. Incoming particles should be trapped in the spaces between the grains and absorbed. When this happens to protons they are expected to interact with the oxygen in the lunar COMETS regolith to produce hydroxyl and water and ICE. The signature for these molecules was recently found and reported by Rosettas ALICE instrument

My bolding.

Let's compare Sol's "quoted" article text above with how it actually read:

The lunar surface is a loose collection of irregular dust grains, known as regolith. Incoming particles should be trapped in the spaces between the grains and absorbed. When this happens to protons they are expected to interact with the oxygen in the lunar regolith to produce hydroxyl and water. The signature for these molecules was recently found and reported by Chandrayaan-1’s Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) instrument team

Sol, you have been frequently accused of lying in this thread. In most of these instances I would have said you made false and unsupported assertions. But your alterations to this quote, in particular the parts I highlighted, are blatantly dishonest. Any bonafide scientist who did this would never hear their office phone ring again. That is, while they still had an office.

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: Lying about comets by inane replacement of text about the Moon

Ummm...from the same process as How The Moon Produces Its Own Water

Hmmm .... the continued stupidity of thinking that the Moon is a comet, Sol88 !
11 November 2015 Sol88: Lying about comets by inane replacement of text to make a coherent paragraph about the lunar surface into Sol88 gibberish!

The lunar surface is a loose collection of irregular dust grains, known as regolith. Incoming particles should be trapped in the spaces between the grains and absorbed. When this happens to protons they are expected to interact with the oxygen in the lunar regolith to produce hydroxyl and water. The signature for these molecules was recently found and reported by Chandrayaan-1’s Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) instrument team.

The main lie is making comet surfaces into lunar regolith

Regolith is a layer of loose, heterogeneous superficial material covering solid rock. It includes dust, soil, broken rock, and other related materials and is present on Earth, the Moon, Mars, some asteroids, and other terrestrial planets and moons.

which does not exist on comets. Comet surfaces are loose mixtures of ices and dust on top of more solid mixtures of ices and dust.
The next lie is the production of ICE from protons hitting lunar regolith[/URL.
The third lie is the Rosetta's ALICE instrument detecting this - it was the M3 instrument.
The fourth lie that this mechanism could explain the hydroxyl and water production from comets.

These lies are expected since you have spent 6 years either repeating lies abut comets or making up your own, Sol88.
[URL="http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10960753#post10960753"]A list of 29 items of ignorance. lies and delusions from Sol88 over the last 6 years.

1. 4 November 2015 Sol88: What is the electric comet explanation for the origin of some jets from the walls of pits on 67P?
2. 4 November 2015 Sol88: What is the electric comet explanation for the locations that jets have been traced to on 67P (the neck, not highest points)?
3. 4 November 2015 Sol88: Do you understand the idiocy of that question about a hypothetical mainstream mechanism for narrow jets on Comet 19P?
4. 4 November 2015 Sol88: David Talbott is deluded enough to extend the fantasies of Immanuel Velikovsky.
5. 4 November 2015 Sol88: Wal Thornhill is a follower of the fantasies of Immanuel Velikovsky.
6. 5 November 2015 Sol88: Yet another repeated, irrelevant question about the mainstream science of comets and their jets!
7. 6 November 2015 Sol88: It is a lie that there are no explanations about how comet "jets are formed, maintained and collimated".
8. 6 November 2015 Sol88: The expectation of seeing DUSTY PLASMA, etc. in a paper about Geologic control of jet formation on Comet 103P/Hartley 2!
9. 9 November 2015 Sol88: A lie about the contents of a dusty plasma video which is about the dusty plasma processes on the surfaces on airless planetary objects (i.e. not comets).

132 days and counting of fear of physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.[/QUOTE]

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: A new delusion that comets do not contain dust or even rocks

LINK

New and repeated delusions from you, Sol88 !
11 November 2015 Sol88: A new delusion that comets do not contains dust or even rocks.
You cite a NASA article about an object that they think is a comet that has emitted all of its volatiles leaving the non-volatiles! Halloween Skies to Include Dead Comet Flyby
Anyone who knows about astronomy knows that some meteor showers are the remains of comets. This thread has concentrated on the dust in comets because that is easily detected, e.g. dust is expelled by sublimating gases.

11 November 2015 Sol88: The repeated delusion that the Stardust mission finding that some comet dust formed in the inner solar system means that comets are rocks.

11 November 2015 Sol88: A repeated lie about the Stardust mission results - the dust contained a mixture of low and high minerals.

11 November 2015 Sol88: The delusion that in situ detection of oxygen molecules is a problem for real comets.
First detection of molecular oxygen at a comet

ESA’s Rosetta spacecraft has made the first in situ detection of oxygen molecules outgassing from a comet, a surprising observation that suggests they were incorporated into the comet during its formation.

 

[Sol88]

Let's compare Sol's "quoted" article text above with how it actually read:




Sol, you have been frequently accused of lying in this thread. In most of these instances I would have said you made false and unsupported assertions. But your alterations to this quote, in particular the parts I highlighted, are blatantly dishonest. Any bonafide scientist who did this would never hear their office phone ring again. That is, while they had an office.

Yeah whoops missed the strike thru on the space craft observing, good pick up, cheers.

Still doesn't change the facts

The lunar surface is a loose collection of irregular dust grains, known as regolith. Incoming particles should be trapped in the spaces between the grains and absorbed. When this happens to protons they are expected to interact with the oxygen in the lunar regolith to produce hydroxyl and water. The signature for these molecules was recently found and reported by Chandrayaan-1’s Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) instrument team.

All airless bodies with no protective magnetic field should show signs of OH, H2O and Ice...take Mercury for example

Or maybe the solar wind is depositing the oxygen and hydrogen atoms on Mercury’s surface in the first place.

Just like on the Moon, Enceladeus and Comets!!!