Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[jonesdave116]

Spot on!

Garbage. Strange how the impactor saw no such ice on its way to the comet. Strange how they are detecting it with MIRO beneath the surface at 67P. Strange how it was being shot out of Hartley 2 by CO2 jets. Strange how the surface temperatures mean that any surface ice would have sublimated anyway.
Just more unevidenced, impossible nonsense heaped upon unevidenced impossible nonsense. Have I mentioned that it is also scientifically illiterate?
Fairy stories, Sol. All very entertaining, but one isn't meant to take them seriously.

 

[jonesdave116]

Same way as capacitor works, charge is induced

Very funny, that. And we would notice this charge, right? So why didn't we? At Halley, and now at 67P. No charge. Just lickle old cometary neutrals and ions pottering around at <1 km/s.
Funny how all these fairy tales you keep coming up with have never been seen, and somehow remain undetected. Look up the definition of pseudoscience. I think you'll find that you are meeting those criteria rather well.

15 months. Zero evidence.

 

[Sol88]

If EDM is liberating oxygen from the surface of a rocky body, how would ice stay formed on the surface? Wouldn't the EDM scour the ice off just as soon as any formed?



I think the claim is that the comet has such a large negative charge that it pulls in positive hydrogen ions from solar wind a long distance away from the comet, and/or pushes OH- ions out over a large area to catch more solar wind. Of course, various objections to that have already been brought up.

You toying with Mathew Cline?

Yes, in my reasoning that's what's happening

The "outer plate" is the coma and extended tail...I I'm not too sure if a m2 a ever been calculated of a comets extended coma and tail? Be interesting the m2 of a comet such as Comet Holmes

At a distance of around 2 AU, this means that the true diameter of the coma had swelled to over 1 million km,[15] or about 70% of the diameter of the Sun. By comparison, the Moon is 380,000 km from Earth. Therefore, during the 2007 outburst of Comet Holmes the coma was a sphere wider than the diameter of the Moon's orbit around Earth. On 2007 November, the coma had dispersed to a volume larger than the Sun, briefly giving it the largest extended atmosphere in the Solar System.[4][16]

And your doing your calculation with a nucleus of only 3-4km as the collecting area (outer plate)!! I'd reckon that might throw your figures out but I'm no mathematician.

Plus there would be beam or narrow "jet" like field aligned currents joining the two plates (the comets extended dusty plasma atmosphere to the Lithosphere(Rocky Nucleus)) and just a solo space craft would have trouble measuring these phenomena. On Earth I believe the ESA use the Cluster mission

anywhoo back to the "ice" and "dust" boulders....

 

[Sol88]

Garbage. Strange how the impactor saw no such ice on its way to the comet. Strange how they are detecting it with MIRO beneath the surface at 67P. Strange how it was being shot out of Hartley 2 by CO2 jets. Strange how the surface temperatures mean that any surface ice would have sublimated anyway.
Just more unevidenced, impossible nonsense heaped upon unevidenced impossible nonsense. Have I mentioned that it is also scientifically illiterate?
Fairy stories, Sol. All very entertaining, but one isn't meant to take them seriously.

Strange how the surface temperatures mean that any surface ice would have sublimated anyway.


Tell me about the ice cliffs of Tempel 1...again?

They (showing recession of icy cliffs at the margins.) are fascinating in the context of your above statement??

Is the ice here only in a relativity thin layer, like and onion skin being peeled of each trip round the sun from the heat???

Leaving an extremely smooth surface?? but well consolidated (rocky) material with SCALLOPED edges and mass wasting similar too the Imhotep region on 67P!

 

[jonesdave116]

Same way it works for the Earths Magnetosphere/Ionosphere/Atmosphere/Lithosphere connection.

Highly amusing. Perhaps you could point out whereabouts on Earth that you see this current turning rock into ice? Maybe Antarctica used to be rock, and all that auroral activity down there has turned it into ice?

 

[jonesdave116]

Strange how the surface temperatures mean that any surface ice would have sublimated anyway.


Tell me about the ice cliffs of Tempel 1...again?

[qimg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/PIA13862_Tempel_1_annotated.jpg/220px-PIA13862_Tempel_1_annotated.jpg[/qimg]

They (showing recession of icy cliffs at the margins.) are fascinating in the context of your above statement??

Is the ice here only in a relativity thin layer, like and onion skin being peeled of each trip round the sun from the heat???

Leaving an extremely smooth surface?? but well consolidated (rocky) material with SCALLOPED edges and mass wasting similar too the Imhotep region on 67P!

Because the ice is mainly hidden beneath the dust. At the "cliff" edge there has obviously been slumping which has exposed the face. Therefore it sublimates. Approximately 50m of erosion between the DI mission and the Stardust/NEXT mission. If it hadn't gone anywhere, that would be unusual.
Struggling to see what is difficult to understand about that for people who can easily reconcile comets being pieces of rock blasted off of planets by giant electric discharges, possibly at a time when we were all orbiting Saturn.

 

[Sol88]

Highly amusing. Perhaps you could point out whereabouts on Earth that you see this current turning rock into ice? Maybe Antarctica used to be rock, and all that auroral activity down there has turned it into ice?

There there, I know it's difficult top understand for someone such as your self JD116 a non interdisciplinary hard science "if it's not in my field, it does not exist" type of guy but blow me over with a feather, everything seems connected!

and you may actually be correct, some time in the past the the mega/super auroral activity changed the landscape and turned rock into water...our water had to come from somewhere and Rosetta first "surprise"... NOT from comets...


Try again 'ol boy.

 

[jonesdave116]

There there, I know it's difficult top understand for someone such as your self JD116 a non interdisciplinary hard science "if it's not in my field, it does not exist" type of guy but blow me over with a feather, everything seems connected!

and you may actually be correct, some time in the past the the mega/super auroral activity changed the landscape and turned rock into water...our water had to come from somewhere and Rosetta first "surprise"... NOT from comets...


Try again 'ol boy.

Why do I need to try again, huh? WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE????????????
Just one unevidenced, idiotic piece of woo after another. Please, do point out this evidence from 67P, or any other comet, that would mean us all having to convert to this religion you hold so dearly?
Like I said, where is this charge you are talking about, why don't we see it, and how is it changing rock into ice?
Stop avoiding the question. Where is the evidence?

 

[Sol88]

Because the ice is mainly hidden beneath the dust. At the "cliff" edge there has obviously been slumping which has exposed the face. Therefore it sublimates. Approximately 50m of erosion between the DI mission and the Stardust/NEXT mission. If it hadn't gone anywhere, that would be unusual.
Struggling to see what is difficult to understand about that for people who can easily reconcile comets being pieces of rock blasted off of planets by giant electric discharges, possibly at a time when we were all orbiting Saturn.

Mmmmm....are you able to then

ianw16 says:
26/06/2015 at 03:11

So what is it then? Given the spectral data strongly infers that it is H2O ice? And given that H2O ice was spectrally identified on Tempel 1?
Any suggestions?

LINK

Have you got the spectral data from the receding icy cliffs on Tempel 1??? Love to have a look.

There is this though



Exposed Water Ice Deposits on the Surface of Comet 9P/Tempel 1

We report the direct detection of solid water ice deposits exposed on the surface of comet 9P/Tempel 1, as observed by the Deep Impact mission. Three anomalously colored areas are shown to include water ice on the basis of their near-infrared spectra, which include diagnostic water ice absorptions at wavelengths of 1.5 and 2.0 micrometers. These absorptions are well modeled as a mixture of nearby non-ice regions and 3 to 6% water ice particles 10 to 50 micrometers in diameter. These particle sizes are larger than those ejected during the impact experiment, which suggests that the surface deposits are loose aggregates. The total area of exposed water ice is substantially less than that required to support the observed ambient outgassing from the comet, which likely has additional source regions below the surface.

but what about the "recession of icy cliffs at the margins" I hear you say JD116, maybe they,

J. M. Sunshine1,*, M. F. A'Hearn2, O. Groussin2, J.-Y. Li2, M. J. S. Belton3, W. A. Delamere4, J. Kissel5, K. P. Klaasen6, L. A. McFadden2, K. J. Meech7, H. J. Melosh8, P. H. Schultz9, P. C. Thomas10, J. Veverka10, D. K. Yeomans6, I. C. Busko11, M. Desnoyer10, T. L. Farnham2, L. M. Feaga2, D. L. Hampton12, D. J. Lindler13, C. M. Lisse14 and D. D. Wellnitz2 ,where just plain unaware???


Still it's shiny and blueish so must be ice, eh?

 

[aleCcowaN]

vir virum legit?

 

[Sol88]

Why do I need to try again, huh? WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE????????????
Just one unevidenced, idiotic piece of woo after another. Please, do point out this evidence from 67P, or any other comet, that would mean us all having to convert to this religion you hold so dearly?
Like I said, where is this charge you are talking about, why don't we see it, and how is it changing rock into ice?
Stop avoiding the question. Where is the evidence?

How do you experience Earth fair weather electric field, JD116?

Me I'm totally unaware of the

'fine weather', the potential, aka 'voltage', increases with altitude at about 30 volts per foot (100 V/m), when climbing against the gradient of the electric field.[3] This electric field gradient continues up into the atmosphere to a point where the voltage reaches its maximum, in the neighborhood of 300,000 volts. This occurs at approximately 30–50 km above the Earth's surface.[4] From that point in the atmosphere up to its outer limit, nearly 1,000 km, the electric field gradient produced in the lower atmosphere either ceases or has reversed.

Why don't I get zapped?


Identification of boundaries in the cometary environment from ac electric field measurements

Summary

Electric fields are measured with the APV-V experiment in the frequency range 8 Hz-300 kHz. The field amplitude increases significantly, first at a distance of 2 105 km, then at distances of 1.2–1.5 105 km, and 5–7 104 km from the nucleus. These phenomena have been observed both on Vega-1 and Vega-2. The electric field measurements are compared with data obtained from dust and plasma experiments; possible mechanisms responsible for the existence of these boundaries are discussed.

Tusenfem, any data from Rosetta publicly, non paywalled available, on 67P electric field and boundaries (double layers)???

:

A poor chap was killed here the other day in one of our pre monsoonal build up thunderstorms, bolt from the blue as they say. Picked him out from a group of 30 or so people all sitting together, came up thru the rock he was sitting on and exited thru the shoulder killing only him and paralysing the arm temporally of the person sitting right next to him...work that out

kinda like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I20u8xQxZs

Look at that horizontal streamer!!!

 

[tusenfem]

Whoops my bad seems like the Moon and Mars also have a magnetic filed like Mercury's LINK

No they don't.
Mercury has an active dynamo and thus an internal magnetic field.
The Moon and Mars may have remnant magnetic fields, because they have no active dynamo inside.
Sheesh, can you please get your facts correct, for once.

 

[jonesdave116]

Mmmmm....are you able to then LINK

Have you got the spectral data from the receding icy cliffs on Tempel 1??? Love to have a look.

There is this though



Exposed Water Ice Deposits on the Surface of Comet 9P/Tempel 1

but what about the "recession of icy cliffs at the margins" I hear you say JD116, maybe they,

J. M. Sunshine1,*, M. F. A'Hearn2, O. Groussin2, J.-Y. Li2, M. J. S. Belton3, W. A. Delamere4, J. Kissel5, K. P. Klaasen6, L. A. McFadden2, K. J. Meech7, H. J. Melosh8, P. H. Schultz9, P. C. Thomas10, J. Veverka10, D. K. Yeomans6, I. C. Busko11, M. Desnoyer10, T. L. Farnham2, L. M. Feaga2, D. L. Hampton12, D. J. Lindler13, C. M. Lisse14 and D. D. Wellnitz2 ,where just plain unaware???


Still it's shiny and blueish so must be ice, eh?

What on earth are you on about now? They didn't (as already explained) have the ability to make spectral measurements of that area. The view wasn't sufficiently good.
All you need to know is that it is ice. As predicted by Whipple, and as not predicted by the idiot Thornhill.
Where is this ice coming from? What is your explanation for it? More pertinently, WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE???????????????

 

[jonesdave116]

How do you experience Earth fair weather electric field, JD116?

Me I'm totally unaware of the

Why don't I get zapped?


Identification of boundaries in the cometary environment from ac electric field measurements


Tusenfem, any data from Rosetta publicly, non paywalled available, on 67P electric field and boundaries (double layers)???

:

A poor chap was killed here the other day in one of our pre monsoonal build up thunderstorms, bolt from the blue as they say. Picked him out from a group of 30 or so people all sitting together, came up thru the rock he was sitting on and exited thru the shoulder killing only him and paralysing the arm temporally of the person sitting right next to him...work that out

kinda like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I20u8xQxZs

Blah, blah, blah. And what has any of that got to do with comets being made of rock? Or the total lack of evidence for any of the loopy ideas you keep posting in order to keep your faith strong?

 

[tusenfem]

Tusenfem, any data from Rosetta publicly, non paywalled available, on 67P electric field and boundaries (double layers)???

All Rosetta data are submitted to PDS and PSA after the PI discretional period has passed (usually 6 months). Data are never paywalled, the papers may be depending on which journal they are submitted to and whether they have an open access policy (which most have nowadays, if you pay enough as author).
So, take a look, not that I think you will understand what you get.
And by the way, why have you not yet downloaded the VEGA data from PDS or PSA? Then you can check it for yourself, all that data is readily available. Not that any EC proponents are going to get their hands dirty by actually looking at and working with real data ........

 

[Sol88]

Why do I need to try again, huh? WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE????????????
Just one unevidenced, idiotic piece of woo after another. Please, do point out this evidence from 67P, or any other comet, that would mean us all having to convert to this religion you hold so dearly?
Like I said, where is this charge you are talking about, why don't we see it, and how is it changing rock into ice?
Stop avoiding the question. Where is the evidence?

Might not turn it into ice but in can

due to the lightning’s heat vaporizing the rock's surface, the shiny black layer was actually incredibly porous.

sounds familiar??

lightning-strikes-can-alter-rock-atomic-level

Atomic level you say, that's interesting!

 

[jonesdave116]

Might not turn it into ice but in can sounds familiar??

lightning-strikes-can-alter-rock-atomic-level

Atomic level you say, that's interesting!

I'll say it again: WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

 

[Sol88]

All Rosetta data are submitted to PDS and PSA after the PI discretional period has passed (usually 6 months). Data are never paywalled, the papers may be depending on which journal they are submitted to and whether they have an open access policy (which most have nowadays, if you pay enough as author).
So, take a look, not that I think you will understand what you get.
And by the way, why have you not yet downloaded the VEGA data from PDS or PSA? Then you can check it for yourself, all that data is readily available. Not that any EC proponents are going to get their hands dirty by actually looking at and working with real data ........

Why not use the latest data?? ftp://psa.esac.esa.int/pub/mirror/INTERNATIONAL-ROSETTA-MISSION/VIRTIS/RO-A-VIRTIS-2-AST2-V1.0/DATA/

Tusenfem, perhaps you could tell me what's the most recent relevant data to this whole thread, they may be contained within PSA RPC-MAG ftp?



6 months, you say?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Sol88: foundational to the scientific method is testing of an idea. Specifically, a scientist needs to figure out ways to falsify their idea and attempt to do so.

What kind of laboratory setup would be useful test your anti sublimation process? What would falsify the idea?

 

[Dancing David]

I think he's claiming that the ice fragments/grains detected came from ice covering the surface of a rocky body, and that ice got there because so much H20 was generated (in an ECH manner) that there was enough to anti-sublimate onto the rock.

Despite the fact that some sort of gravitational anomaly does not exist that explains why comets do not have the density of rocky asteroids. As demonstrated by orbital mechanics and volume of comets, they are not rocky