Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[Dancing David]

Dudes chill, do not call each other delusional or drongo. Unless you really want an possible infraction

 

[Reality Check]

Sorry sport it is YOU who do not understand, i mean ....

We understand that you have lots of ignorance, denial and delusions abut astronomy, Sol88, e.g. the denial of science that leads to the delusion that comets are rocks.

 

[Reality Check]

http://www.thunderbolts.info/predictions_pending.htm#cdi

Wal Thornhill was a physicist and yet that web page links to his holosceince web site containing abysmal ignorance of physics!
For example he asserts that jets do not cause changes in comet orbits because of electrical field magic. That is denial of Newton's Laws !
Thornhill agrees that jets are ions being blasted from the comet surface. F=ma + every action has an equal reaction means that the comet is pushed by the ions leaving the surface. Thus their orbit has to change due to the jets!

Thornhill: Changes to the appearance of the jets may be seen before impact.
see [ 2001 Oct 18]

A fantasy about "Failed electronics prevented any details from being seen before impact." is backed up by a broken link.

 

[Sol88]

It would be good if you would know that such products are highly available in the universe, there is no need at all for a planetary surface to for ethanol.

This is probably the next fancy location for Spring Break.

So tiresome to always have to point out your lack of knowledge, Sol, can't you just go hunt kangaroos or something.

Low and behold, they detect methanol in molecular clouds but can't work out it comes about...??

Physics
Molecular cloud IRAS 16562-3959, clearly visible as an orange smudge among the many stars at the center of the image.[16]

The physics of molecular clouds are poorly understood and much debated. Their internal motions are governed by turbulence in a cold, magnetized gas, for which the turbulent motions are highly supersonic but comparable to the speeds of magnetic disturbances. This state is thought to lose energy rapidly, requiring either an overall collapse or a steady reinjection of energy. At the same time, the clouds are known to be disrupted by some process—most likely the effects of massive stars—before a significant fraction of their mass has become stars.

Molecular clouds, and especially GMCs, are often the home of astronomical masers.

LINK

PLASMA...again!!!

any plasma on/in/around a comet that may also produce the observed spices on dust grains??

Formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds

We study the formation of water and methanol in the dense cloud conditions to find the dependence of its production rate on the binding energies, reaction mechanisms, temperatures, and grain site number. We wish to find the effective grain surface area available for chemical reaction and the effective recombination timescales as functions of grain and gas parameters.

and water..just like on a comet!

Ummm... That's also in line with the EU, so no surprise really

 

[Sol88]

Wal Thornhill was a physicist and yet that web page links to his holosceince web site containing abysmal ignorance of physics!
For example he asserts that jets do not cause changes in comet orbits because of electrical field magic. That is denial of Newton's Laws !
Thornhill agrees that jets are ions being blasted from the comet surface. F=ma + every action has an equal reaction means that the comet is pushed by the ions leaving the surface. Thus their orbit has to change due to the jets!


A fantasy about "Failed electronics prevented any details from being seen before impact." is backed up by a broken link.

Well I'm not so sure, my thoughts are on a comets orbital changes has more to do with the process going on that is similar to what is measured and observed in the Tether experiment!

Electrodynamic tethers

Electrodynamic tethers are primarily used for propulsion. These are conducting tethers that carry a current that can generate either thrust or drag from a planetary magnetic field, in much the same way as an electric motor does.

Throw the loss of mass into the mix and you get a very complicated dynamic process

Still nothing fatal for the ELECTRIC COMET

 

[Reality Check]

Well I'm not so sure, my thoughts are on a comets orbital changes has more to do with the process going on that is similar to what is measured and observed in the Tether experiment!

Are you stating that you are to as ignorant of basic physics as Thornhill, Sol88 ?
27 October 2015 Sol88: Wal Thornhill's ignorance of Newton's Laws (jets push on comets)

 

[Sol88]

Sol88, that is your delusion based on ignorance, not the real world.
In the real world stellar systems are created from collapsed molecular clouds that contain ethanol. etc. Alcohol clouds in space
It took me a couple of minutes to find that web pages - why could you not find it?

NOT in the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Shall we swing the thread back round to the start!

stars form strung out like pearls on a string within molecular clouds!

or plasmoids form with instabilities within the Birkeland currents that thread thru molecular clouds!

better explained HERE

There is a simple, readily observed, and easily testable physical process that accounts for the discoveries in R Corona Australis. Those who have studied plasma and electricity in the laboratory discuss the dynamic all the time. The work began with the Swedish experimental researcher Kristian Birkeland, and culminated in the pioneering life’s work of Nobel Laureate Hannes Alfvén, the father of plasma science. Alfvén, the researchers that worked with him, and such independent researchers today as Australian physicist Wallace Thornhill and retired professor of electrical engineering Donald Scott have offered numerous insights on the role of electricity in space. And their models have demonstrated exceptional predictive ability.

Astrophysicists know that such clouds are slightly ionized. However, in the Electric Universe they are not everywhere charge neutral. As a result electric fields and currents exist within the cloud. These electric currents take the form of parallel filaments in twisted pairs, behaving like cosmic power transmission lines. The electromagnetic force between the filaments is the strongest long-range force in the universe since it falls off linearly with distance rather than with the square of the distance as does gravity. That is why matter is falling into core of the cloud “10 times faster than gravity could account for".

Plasma cosmologists also understand that electric currents heat and accelerate gas to high speeds, generating intense magnetic fields. And in electromagnetic "z-pinches" along these current filaments, plasma instabilities generate copious x-rays!

The more we learn about the cosmos the less it looks like the picture still taught in school. But without vigilance old theories become an ideology and persist far beyond their usefulness.

but we wander off topic again...back to the ELECTRIC COMET and it's "Jets" !


See no one here is willing to improve on the two papers released on cometary jet formation!!

Anyone?

 

[Reality Check]

Low and behold, they detect methanol in molecular clouds but can't work out it comes about...??

LINK

Low and behold, you cannot understand science yet again, Sol88! Physics (internal motions, etc.) is not chemistry.

Lying about PLASMA does not help. Molecular cloud has no PLASMA in it.

You cite a paper about the formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds so you know that "can't work out it comes about" is a lie.
Formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds

We study the formation of water and methanol in the dense cloud conditions to find the dependence of its production rate on the binding energies, reaction mechanisms, temperatures, and grain site number. We wish to find the effective grain surface area available for chemical reaction and the effective recombination timescales as functions of grain and gas parameters. We used a Monte Carlo simulation to follow the chemical processes occurring on the grain surface. We find that the formation rate of various molecules is strongly dependent on the binding energies. When the binding energies are high, it is very difficult to produce significant amounts of the molecular species. Instead, the grain is found to be full of atomic species. The production rates are found to depend on the number density in the gas phase. We show that the concept of the effective grain surface area, which we introduced in our earlier work, plays a significant role in grain chemistry. We compute the abundance of water and methanol and show that the results strongly depend on the density and composition in the gas phase, as well as various grain parameters. In the rate equation, it is generally assumed that the recombination efficiencies are independent of the grain parameters, and the surface coverage. Presently, our computed parameter α for each product is found to depend on the accretion rate, the grain parameters and the surface coverage of the grain. We compare our results obtained from the rate equation and the one from the effective rate equation, which includes α. At the end we compare our results with the observed abundances.

has no PLASMA in it. This is a paper about chemical reactions on dust grains.

 

[Reality Check]

but we wander off topic again...back to the ELECTRIC COMET and it's "Jets" !

You do not return to the ELECTRIC COMET delusion or its "jets", Sol88!

You return to delusions about the mainstream theory of comets being "proven wrong".
27 October 2015 Sol88: A delusion about "Formation of jets in Comet 19P/Borrelly by subsurface geysers" being proven wrong.
27 October 2015 Sol88: A delusion about "Geologic control of jet formation on Comet 103P/Hartley 2" being proven wrong.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Low and behold, they detect methanol in molecular clouds but can't work out it comes about...??

Yes, they haven't figured it out yet. So? Are you implying that if mainstream astronomy was on the right track they would have already figured everything out and no mysteries would remain?

PLASMA...again!!!

How did you get plasma out of that? Do you think that astronomical masers only take place in plasmas? The Wikipedia article on molecular clouds specifically contrasts them against clouds of ionized gas, meaning molecular clouds aren't made of plasma.

 

[Sol88]

Low and behold, you cannot understand science yet again, Sol88! Physics (internal motions, etc.) is not chemistry.

Lying about PLASMA does not help. Molecular cloud has no PLASMA in it.

You cite a paper about the formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds so you know that "can't work out it comes about" is a lie.
Formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds

has no PLASMA in it. This is a paper about chemical reactions on dust grains.

water and methanol from chemical reactions on dust grains, vjust like on a comet!!!

 

[ferd burfle]

Yes, they haven't figured it out yet. So? Are you implying that if mainstream astronomy was on the right track they would have already figured everything out and no mysteries would remain?

The false dichotomy is Sol's go-to fallacy. But he manages to mix it up too. The last 2 pages or so have seen strawmen, mischaracterizations, the Gish Gallop; you name it, he ticks all the boxes.

One of his quotes from Thunderbolts mentions an EU "model" that makes "predictions". But you'll never see any math; when pressed they will tell you that math is for sissys and that their science is so new and revolutionary they haven't worked out the details yet. Fortunately, none of that keeps real scientists from doing real science.

 

[Reality Check]

water and methanol from chemical reactions on dust grains, vjust like on a comet!!!

Formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds
That is abysmal ignorance of what you cite and the ELECTRIC COMET delusion, Sol88 .
Comets are not molecular clouds, just like they are not rocks .
Free floating grains in a molecular cloud are not dust grains mixed with ices as in a comet nucleus.
The ELECTRIC COMET delusion does not have chemical reactions on dust grains creating the observed gases.
The ELECTRIC COMET delusion does have any valid mechanism for creating the observed gases. All the Thunderbolts cult has is fantasies.

Personally I suspect that some of these mainstream processes in molecular clouds can also happen on the surface of comets.

 

[Sol88]

Yes, they haven't figured it out yet. So? Are you implying that if mainstream astronomy was on the right track they would have already figured everything out and no mysteries would remain?



How did you get plasma out of that? Do you think that astronomical masers only take place in plasmas? The Wikipedia article on molecular clouds specifically contrasts them against clouds of ionized gas, meaning molecular clouds aren't made of plasma.

Mathew Cline, no but they are Ionized and therefore can be called a plasma!

LINK

So it seems Electrons and Ions play a major role in electrochemistry surrounding/on and in a comet as well. <rehtorical>Has this chemistry been observed around a comet/s?</rehtorical>

Or are we still pinning all our hopes on hidden secret sublimation of different species from a comet when they where supposedly formed in a electrical process inside molecular clouds?

Turtles all the way down!

 

[Sol88]

Formation of water and methanol in star forming molecular clouds
That is abysmal ignorance of what you cite and the ELECTRIC COMET delusion, Sol88 .
Comets are not molecular clouds, just like they are not rocks .
Free floating grains in a molecular cloud are not dust grains mixed with ices as in a comet nucleus.
The ELECTRIC COMET delusion does not have chemical reactions on dust grains creating the observed gases.
The ELECTRIC COMET delusion does have any valid mechanism for creating the observed gases. All the Thunderbolts cult has is fantasies.

Personally I suspect that some of these mainstream processes in molecular clouds can also happen on the surface of comets.

Personally I suspect that some of these mainstream processes in molecular clouds can also happen on the surface of comets.

Welcome, Reality Check, to the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!!!

 

[Sol88]

Now let use it (The electrical nature of the Universe) to start moving round the show as well!

Numerous space physics and plasma theories are being
revised or overturned by data gathered during the Tethered
Satellite System Reflight (TSS-1R) experiments on Space
Shuttle Columbia's STS-75 mission last March.

Models, accepted by scientists for more than 30 years,
are incorrect and must be rewritten. This assessment follows
analysis by a joint U.S.-Italian Tethered Satellite
investigating team of the information gathered during the mission.

snip

"Perhaps the most significant finding," Stone said, "is
that tether currents proved to be up to three times greater
than existing theoretical models predicted prior to the
mission. With the amount of power generated being directly
proportional to the current, this bodes well for
technological applications."

"Reversing the direction of current flow puts the system
into an electric-motor mode," Stone explained. This harnessed
energy could furnish thrust for reboosting a space station,
satellite or Shuttle in a decaying orbit.

I'm ready, are you!

 

[rwguinn]

Some day it ,may actually occur to Sol that Electrons and Ions are absolutely critical for ALL matter...

 

[Reality Check]

Sol88: States a ELECTRIC UNIVERSE is chemistry delusion

Personally I suspect that some of these mainstream processes in molecular clouds can also happen on the surface of comets.

Welcome to the delusion that the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE is chemistry, Sol88!
27 October 2015 Sol88: States a ELECTRIC UNIVERSE is chemistry delusion!


A list of 14 items of ignorance. lies and delusions from Sol88 over the last 6 years.

1. A couple of lies about the [URL="http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rosetta_the_ambition_to_turn_science_fiction_into_science_fact"]Rosetta: the ambition to turn science fiction into science fact article.[/URL]
2. 21 October 2015 Sol88: Ignorant that the Solar System formed from a cloud of Hydrocarbons, Argon, Nitrogen....
3. B]21 October 2015 Sol88[/B]: Ignorant about what tholins are.
4. 21 October 2015 Sol88: A lie about "a host of confirmation and surprises" for the EC delusion at 67P.
5. 21 October 2015 Sol88: The repeated delusion that "surprises" support the EC delusion (logical fallacy of false dichotomy).
6. 27 October 2015 Sol88: States a delusion about "Sugar ice sublimate to colaldehyde gas"
7. 27 October 2015 Sol88: A delusion about "Formation of jets in Comet 19P/Borrelly by subsurface geysers" being proven wrong.
8. 27 October 2015 Sol88: A delusion about "Geologic control of jet formation on Comet 103P/Hartley 2" being proven wrong.
9. 27 October 2015 Sol88: A lazy lie about a "pit like structure" and the jet that was observed from it.
10. 27 October 2015 Sol88: Blindly parroting Wal Thornhill's ignorance of Newton's Laws (jets push on comets)
11. 27 October 2105 Sol88: Ignorance of 2 mainstream papers leads to thinking that they are about the electric comet delusion!

 

[Reality Check]

Now let use it (The electrical nature of the Universe) to start moving round the show as well!

A fantasy about "The electrical nature of the Universe" being in a source does not start any show, Sol88. Except maybe the persistent ignorance of physics Sol88 show !

Not the first time that the TSS-1R results from 1996 have popped up: 12th June 2015 Sol88: Comets are not lengths of wire attached to a spacecraft.
23rd December 2014 Sol88: A delusion that discoveries in one area of physics means that other areas of physics are so invalid that comets must be rock (and a delusion abut the contents of the paper)!

Tethers work through electromagnetism - no magnetic field = no current induced in the wire !

ETA: We need to add the delusion that TSS-1R results from 1996 have not been used to improve the model of the Earth's ionosphere in the last 19 years.

ETA: And persistent ignorance about the electric comet delusion which ignores magnetic fields! It is electric field fantasies from the Thunderbolts cult.

 

[Matthew Cline]

Mathew Cline, no but they are Ionized and therefore can be called a plasma!

That a gas merely contains some ions isn't enough to qualify it as plasma.

So it seems Electrons and Ions play a major role in electrochemistry surrounding/on and in a comet as well.

All chemistry is going to involve electrons in some form or another. And if there's ions present of course they're going to participate in any chemical reactions that take place.