Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[Ziggurat]

But Mainstream can invoke majik orbital mechanics??? WTF

There's nothing magic about mainstream orbital mechanics. It's a well-tested theory, with precise quantitative predictions which match observations.

In contrast, there's nothing quantitative about EU nonsense.

Whoops, how embarrassment

Not in the least. Events that can happen over the course of hundreds of millions of years are not comparable to events that are supposed to have happened over the course of... how long, exactly, does Velikovsky think it all took?

Whilst Immanuel Velikovsky is ridiculed???

Of course he's ridiculed. He's a delusional clown, and his theories are a joke.

 

[jonesdave116]

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-82971-0_75
Summary

Gaseous, neutral water was detected in the coma of comet P/Halley during infrared (IR) observations from the NASA Kuiper Airborne Observatory (KAO). High resolution spectra revealed intense, solar-pumped IR fluorescent emission in the (001–000) band of H2O near λ ~ 2.65 µm. Three lines of the (011–010) “hot” band were also observed. In this paper, we summarize the results of our KAO H2O investigation. Besides detecting H2O and measuring its absolute production rate, we measured its spatial distribution, temporal variability, outflow velocity, and have determined the H2O ortho/para ratio................

Back in '86. Wow, the fact that dear old Wal hasn't told anyone 'bout this. Naughty Uncle Wal. Can't be to do with flogging books and DVDs and conference tickets, could it Wal? Come on you old fraudster, get your uneducated backside on here, and start helping out your helpless acolytes. Least you could do under the circumstances. i.e. you're making a living that you never could have have expected from your alleged Ph. D., and yet you've convinced these two scientifically challenged people to believe your nonsense, and just pop up occasionally to give yet another scientifically impossible "fact" to keep them in line.
Got to do better, you fraud. Sort it out.

 

[Reality Check]

Of course he's ridiculed. He's a delusional clown, and his theories are a joke.

His followers are obviously clowns mindlessly supporting delusional ideas since 60 years have passed and not one paper supporting his ideas has been published in a scientific journal (just vanity Velikovskian magazines). Or for that matter they do not seem to have been competent or brave enough to even submit papers.
Of course we expect paranoiac ranting about censorship, etc. !

For example: Where is the paper showing the path that a planet (Venus) has to take in order to stop the rotation of another planet (Earth) and restart it with the same rotation after 24 hours?
Will we get deafening silence, citations to the scientific literature or just ranting from Sol88 and Haig?

 

[jonesdave116]

Will we get deafening silence, citations to the scientific literature or just ranting from Sol88 and Haig?

But.......but....but...it must be true.........otherwise they've been lying to us, and we've been too thick to realise.............AAAAAAARRRRRGHHHHHHH........
No, expect more of the same, RC, they are tied into this tighter than that mad mob in Texas who topped themselves, and that was down to a comet as well, from memory.
One can only hope.

 

[Sol88]

There's nothing magic about mainstream orbital mechanics. It's a well-tested theory, with precise quantitative predictions which match observations.

In contrast, there's nothing quantitative about EU nonsense.



Not in the least. Events that can happen over the course of hundreds of millions of years are not comparable to events that are supposed to have happened over the course of... how long, exactly, does Velikovsky think it all took?



Of course he's ridiculed. He's a delusional clown, and his theories are a joke.

This supports a theory that Jupiter temporarily migrated into the inner Solar System, destabilizing the orbits of water-rich carbonaceous chondrites

Please Ziggurat, Tell me more on this theory


How does Jupiter temporarily migrate?

 

[Reality Check]

This supports a theory that Jupiter temporarily migrated into the inner Solar System, destabilizing the orbits of water-rich carbonaceous chondrites

Do your own research rather than asking irrelevant questions, Sol88.
ETA: Try reading what you linked to and see how lazy that question is
Common source for Earth and Moon water cites
A low mass for Mars from Jupiter’s early gas-driven migration
See The Grand Tack

 

[Sol88]

Or, indeed, like 4179 Toutatis, among others. I did quote Uncle Wal's description of the difference between an asteroid and a comet in that previous post. Need me to do it again? Explain.
And you still seem to be evading the questions:
Why a density of 470 kg m^3? Explain.
Where is all the water coming from? Explain.
Don't worry, Sol, I'm not not going to put these questions at the end of every post you make, just the ones that I notice.

Where is all the water coming from? Explain. from water-rich carbonaceous chondrites of course, which as far as I was told where ROCK!

Now we are TOLD comets did not bring water to Earth but chunks of rock did

and if you are looking for your non existent ice on comet 67P maybe you should be looking at

For example, the answer could be closer to home, through processes related to vulcanism. Also, meteorites (chunks of asteroids or comets that fall to Earth) have been found to contain water but it is bound to the minerals and in nothing like the quantity found in comets.

So where's the ICE hidden never to be seen in comets or in rock (water-rich carbonaceous chondrites)???


Love to hear the ad hoc explanation for that chestnut!

 

[Sol88]

Do your own research rather than asking irrelevant questions, Sol88.

I was told it can't happen Reality Check

but seems it can to save YOUR theory!!!

 

[Sol88]

NO ONE HERE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME HOW TO GET JUPITER TEMPORARILY MIGRATE, CAN THEY???

PLEASE and explanation for all those reading this thread would clear up this little bump.

 

[Reality Check]

I was told it can't happen Reality Check

That is a lie, Sol88.

• You were told that orbital mechanics is not magic.
• You were told that Velikovsky was a delusional clown, and his theories are a joke
• You were told that planets have not moved around as in Velikovsky's delusions (the word rocky was missing!), i.e. in the last few thousand years.

You cite a Wikipedia Origin of water on Earth which mentions the Tack Model where Jupiter migrates inward and then outward over millions of years billions of years ago.
Even you should know that Velikovsky's delusions were about Venus which is not Jupiter.
Even you should be able to understand that this is not Velikovsky's delusion of planets moving around in the last few thousand years, Sol88 !

Followed by what looks like the deluded idea that models of the early solar system are used to calculate the mass of modern comets!

 

[Ziggurat]

This supports a theory that Jupiter temporarily migrated into the inner Solar System, destabilizing the orbits of water-rich carbonaceous chondrites

Please Ziggurat, Tell me more on this theory


How does Jupiter temporarily migrate?

I haven't read the paper in question, so I can only guess, but I suspect the idea is that Jupiter would slingshot material it passes close to outwards when migrating inwards, and slingshot material inwards when migrating back outwards, thus conserving angular momentum and energy (which Velikovsky can't do). This would be a very slow process, also unlike what Velikovsky requires. And the theory does in fact come from a peer reviewed paper, which you could have identified yourself, if you had cared to. But you didn't even try, because you're not interested in the truth, only in defending your delusions.

But I'll give you a hand. This is the paper:
Walsh, K. J., Morbidelli, A., Raymond, S. N., O'Brien, D. P. & Mandell, A. M. Nature 475, 206–209 (2011)

Since it passed peer review in a rather respectable journal, I'm quite confident that their model is detailed, quantitative, and based on well-tested laws of physics. The same cannot be said about Velikovskian fantasies.

 

[Sol88]

That is a lie, Sol88.

• You were told that orbital mechanics is not magic.
• You were told that Velikovsky was a delusional clown, and his theories are a joke
• You were told that planets have not moved around as in Velikovsky's delusions (the word rocky was missing!), i.e. in the last few thousand years.

You cite a Wikipedia Origin of water on Earth which mentions the Tack Model where Jupiter migrates inward and then outward over millions of years billions of years ago.
Even you should know that Velikovsky's delusions were about Venus which is not Jupiter.
Even you should be able to understand that this is not Velikovsky's delusion of planets moving around in the last few thousand years, Sol88 !

Followed by what looks like the deluded idea that models of the early solar system are used to calculate the mass of modern comets!

So it's just a matter of length of time?

Thousands vs million/billions

Oh and RC you can take your foot out of your mouth now!

 

[Reality Check]

NO ONE HERE CAN EXPLAIN TO ME HOW TO GET JUPITER TEMPORARILY MIGRATE, CAN THEY???

Sol88: EVERYONE HERE KNOES HOW TO GET JUPITER TEMPORARILY MIGRATE BECAUSE THEY CAN READ AND CLICK ON LINKS!

But the posters here are not stupid. They know that it is useless to answer you because they have seen:

• over 6 years of being unable to understand that 0.6 g/cc is not 3.0 g/cc !
• that Velikovsky's delusions from over 60 year ago being the basis of the electric comet has not stopped mindless support of the electric comet delusion.
• not supporting the electric comet idea with actual science (thus making it into a delusion).
• thinking that any flaws in the mainstream model of comets is support for the electric comet delusion.
• thinking that new discoveries somehow invalidates all of the evidence that comets are ices and dust.
• thinking that irrelevant discoveries somehow invalidates all of the evidence that comets are ices and dust
  23rd December 2014 Sol88: A delusion that discoveries in one area of physics means that other areas of physics are so invalid that comets must be rock (and a delusion abut the contents of the paper)!
• mindless parroting of The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos etc.
• your own lies:
  13th February 2015 Sol88: Quote mining of a MUPUS presentation to hide the fact that even snow at low tempertures can be as hard as the layer of ice MUPUS detected!
  16th April 2015, Sol88: Do not repeat a lie about no ice being found (ice found on Tempel 1 and 67P - including surface ice!

And
12 June 2015 Sol88: Was it you, Sol88, or Haig who was deluded enough that they thought that a body heated by the Sun would not heat up all over (including bits that are in shadow)?

 

[Reality Check]

So it's just a matter of length of time?

No Sol88: It is a matter of when.
It is a matter of you mindlessly supporting delusions of Velikovsky and Thunderbolts even when you do not know what they are !
It is even a matter of you not being able to understand basic English:

That is a lie, Sol88.

• You were told that orbital mechanics is not magic.
• You were told that Velikovsky was a delusional clown, and his theories are a joke
• You were told that planets have not moved around as in Velikovsky's delusions (the word rocky was missing!), i.e. in the last few thousand years.

You cite a Wikipedia Origin of water on Earth which mentions the Tack Model where Jupiter migrates inward and then outward over millions of years billions of years ago.
Even you should know that Velikovsky's delusions were about Venus which is not Jupiter.
Even you should be able to understand that this is not Velikovsky's delusion of planets moving around in the last few thousand years, Sol88 !

Followed by what looks like the deluded idea that models of the early solar system are used to calculate the mass of modern comets!

Velikovsky's delusions are

• about the last few thousand years (myths within human history)
• Venus encountering Earth because Velikovsky, Talbott, Thornhill , (now) Sol88 and maybe Haig assume that people are stupid enough to not notice Venus becoming at least the third brightest object in the sky!
  12 June 2015 Sol88: Is Velikovsky's Venus explaining Joshua 10:13 a delusion or mainstream physics?
• 12 June 2015 Sol88: Do you agree with another Velikovskian delusion that Venus was a comet because of Egyptian crowns?
• etc. etc.

ETA: The Velikovskian delusions and neo-Velikovskian delusions do not seem to mention Jupiter moving around at all.

P.S. Talbott's neo-Velikovskian delusions include that Saturn used to be above the Earth's north pole because myth(s)!

 

[Ziggurat]

So it's just a matter of length of time?

Thousands vs million/billions

Oh and RC you can take your foot out of your mouth now!

That, plus conservation of energy and momentum.

Oh, and RCs foot is somewhere else, and YOU might want to remove it.

 

[Sol88]

That, plus conservation of energy and momentum.

Oh, and RCs foot is somewhere else, and YOU might want to remove it.

Grand_Tack

In planetary astronomy, the Grand Tack Hypothesis proposes that Jupiter traveled through the Solar System in the earliest 1–10 million years of the Solar System's existence, fundamentally altering the orbits of other planets as well as manipulating the orbits of asteroids.

According to this hypothesis, the diameter of Jupiter's orbit became smaller (it was "traveling towards the Sun"), then increased again (Jupiter "traveled back outward"). These changes are compared figuratively to the course taken by a sailing boat tacking around an obstacle.[1]

Brilliant!!! MaJik orbital mechanics at work


PS this is not a problem for the EU mob

A Mystifying Menagerie

In 1756, Immanuel Kant proposed that the Solar System condensed out of a dusty cloud of gas floating in space. As the “Nebular Hypothesis” concludes, the cloud contracted because gravitational attraction between particles caused them to clump together. As each clump grew, even greater attractive force drew them all together into a mass.

1756 Really????

but whatever, eh!

 

[jonesdave116]

Where is all the water coming from? Explain. from water-rich carbonaceous chondrites of course, which as far as I was told where ROCK!

Sorry, nowhere near enough water in that rock to explain the quantities seen here, never mind in other comets, which were producing around 1000 litres per second. Secondly, you still don't have a mechanism to explain the extraction of the water from those rocks.
So, you still cannot explain the water observed, and you still cannot explain the density.
However, I do understand why the EU acolytes believe the nonsense that they believe: Because they are considerably denser than 67P.

ETA:
And, as mentioned, 4179 Toutatis is silicate rock with an eccentric orbit, but shows no signs of outgassing. According to EU dogma, this ought to be a comet. Along with many other S-type asteroids in eccentric orbits.

 

[Ziggurat]

Brilliant!!! MaJik orbital mechanics at work

There's nothing magic about it, Sol. Your inability to understand basic physics is not my problem.

PS this is not a problem for the EU mob

You're right: the EU mob ignore orbital mechanics completely.

A Mystifying Menagerie

Yet another error-filled link.

1756 Really????

What's your point?

 

[Sol88]

There's nothing magic about it, Sol. Your inability to understand basic physics is not my problem.



You're right: the EU mob ignore orbital mechanics completely.



Yet another error-filled link.



What's your point?

Velikovsky's can't but mainstream can???? Ha Ha Ha whoo boy!

mainstream can't even come up with a coherent explanation of of the solar system formation with invoking majik!! Temporary migration of Jupiter, ha ha ha giggle giggle snort...

 

[Ziggurat]

Velikovsky's can't but mainstream can???? Ha Ha Ha whoo boy!

mainstream can't even come up with a coherent explanation of of the solar system formation with invoking majik!! Temporary migration of Jupiter, ha ha ha giggle giggle snort...

Gravity is what qualifies as magic for you now?

Or maybe I've got it all wrong. Maybe math is magic. After all, it's beyond your comprehension, and Velikovsky sure as hell didn't use any.