Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

[jonesdave116]

Rosetta comet 67P is rock – no water or ice

'Electric Comet' Could Burn The House Of Science

Sorry, not even going to look at those links. I already posted about 3 posts back that the MIRO instrument found water, so those links are either out of date, or they don't understand the findings or, more likely, cannot face having to accept them.

 

[Reality Check]

That's not true RC

You confirm your wiliness to deny the science of comets by citing ignorant cranks lying about comets in web pages, Haig !

The first link is someone stupidly parroting the Thunderbolts delusions about comets.
The second link is more Thunderbolts delusions from years ago.

 

[Sol88]

It was a surprise because it was unexpected that the photo-electrons played a much bigger role in dissociating H2O and CO2. Yes, sometimes something interesting and new is discovered when one goes to a place which has never been visited before.

SNIPED

Lucky we went then ay

Makes you wonder, what else is going to be a surprise for the mainstream


Now I spose all we need to do is work out why the density of a comet is what it is and job done yeah?

 

[rwguinn]

Lucky we went then ay

Makes you wonder, what else is going to be a surprise for the mainstream


Now I spose all we need to do is work out why the density of a comet is what it is and job done yeah?

We have a damn good idea of why the density of a comet is what it is. Science tells us.

Only willfully ignorant wanna-bees don't have a clue...

 

[Reality Check]

Now I spose all we need to do is work out why the density of a comet is what it is and job done yeah?

6 years of being boggled and you still cannot understand a simple fact about comets, Sol88?
The measured density of comets is because they are made up of the ices and dust that we have detected.
The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos etc. do not change the measurements of density and composition.
This does not either:16th April 2015, Sol88: Do not repeat a lie about no ice being found (ice found on Tempel 1 and 67P - including surface ice!

 

[jonesdave116]

Makes you wonder, what else is going to be a surprise for the mainstream


Now I spose all we need to do is work out why the density of a comet is what it is and job done yeah?

Why the hell do you think REAL science actually do missions like this? If they already knew everything there was to know, like the quasi-religious neo-Velikovskian nutters over at Thunderbolts, then there wouldn't be any point in sending them, would there? That's how we learn things. We know more today than we did 10 years ago. We knew more 10 years ago than we did in the 60's, etc, etc.
The mechanism of the dissociation of the H2O has turned out to be a two step process, but it is still dissociation of H2O, initiated by a photon.
Surely the fact that there is H2O to dissociate is far more blushworthy for EU.
Not to mention the density. Or the lack of any electrical activity.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Why the hell do you think REAL science actually do missions like this? If they already knew everything there was to know, like the quasi-religious neo-Velikovskian nutters over at Thunderbolts, then there wouldn't be any point in sending them, would there? That's how we learn things.

Correction, that should read: "quasi-religious neo-Velikovskian nutters over at Thunderdolts".

And have you looked at their pathetic forum recently? They are only getting two or three comments per day; it has turned into a ghost town over at the Thunderdolts Forum.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Oh! it's not an impact crater?? It's the long sought after nozzle/orifice that jets emanate from?

Are these jets glowing?

[qimg]http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2015/06/ESA_Rosetta_OSIRIS_20150425_closeup.jpg[/qimg]

Look very much like cathode rays, don't they?

In Monument Valley last week I saw the Giant Sky Bunny. I wanted to point it out to my wife but a whale ate it before she got back.

What are your thoughts on the Giant Sky Bunny Theory?

 

[ben m]

Imagine the headlines if anyone had ever believed Electric Comet theory:

SPACECRAFT SURVIVES "ELECTRIC" COMET ENCOUNTER. "Where's the huge lightning bolt?" ask planners.

MYSTERY ROTATION. "This spacecraft was designed to be torqued into place by a hyper-charged electric comet," say boffins, struggling to account for the free-spinning craft.

ELECTRICITY ALL QUIET ON BIZARRE COMET. "Our instruments should have been screaming like a marshmallow peep in a microwave," say Velikovskians. Actual data: radio silence. Debate is raging.

MORE RAY SURPRISES "We're studying the cathode-ray-like objects", say startled scientists. "Our instruments say they're sort of cool vapor jets." Are the instruments wrong or will EC theory be modified?

WHERE'S THE GRAVITY? Orbital data puts the comet density at 0.6 g/cm3. "We're baffled" say electric scientists. New electric-force diagnostics may solve the puzzle in coming weeks.

ELECTRIC COMET MASS MISSING EC experts are frantically attempting to revise electric-comet theory to explain 67/P's non-asteroid-like fluffiness. The leading new theory is a loosely-packed ice conglomerate with a hydrocarbon crust. "It's a big surprise," admits one scientist.

FOR YOU, NO CHARGE Electric charge is fundamental to the modern Velikovskian theory of comets. Rosetta's charge measurements are near zero. Does EC theory need a tiny tweak or a paradigm shift? "It's been a learning experience" says longtime guru Thornhill.

SCIENTISTS DIG DEEP INTO THEIR OWN ELECTRIC THEORY "Thornhill's analysis ... well, we assumed it was trustworthy but hadn't checked before," say chastened scientists.

ANSWERS FROM HISTORY? Did a midcentury eccentric---himself dredging up oddball "equations" from Maxwell, Kepler, and Clausius---may have had comets right all along? "Whipple's predictions are much, much closer to the truth than Velikovsky's", said one stunned expert.

THORNHILL POINTS TO CRATERS AGAIN Amid a whirlwind of electric-comet-theory revisions, leader Thornhill still puts photos of Martian craters next to photos of electric arc damage. But some dissidents are questioning both the technique and the relevance. "Maybe the human eye isn't a good judge of whether a crater due to an arc discharge," says one. "As scientists we should question everything---even sacred dogmas like the Thornhill Crater Comparison Video."

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Imagine the headlines if anyone had ever believed Electric Comet theory:

FOR YOU, NO CHARGE Electric charge is fundamental to the modern Velikovskian theory of comets. Rosetta's charge measurements are near zero. Does EC theory need a tiny tweak or a paradigm shift? "It's been a learning experience" says longtime guru Thornhill.

SCIENTISTS DIG DEEP INTO THEIR OWN ELECTRIC THEORY "Thornhill's analysis ... well, we assumed it was trustworthy but hadn't checked before," say chastened scientists.

THORNHILL POINTS TO CRATERS AGAIN Amid a whirlwind of electric-comet-theory revisions, leader Thornhill still puts photos of Martian craters next to photos of electric arc damage. But some dissidents are questioning both the technique and the relevance. "Maybe the human eye isn't a good judge of whether a crater due to an arc discharge," says one. "As scientists we should question everything---even sacred dogmas like the Thornhill Crater Comparison Video."

Thornhill, more so than anyone else, has made a complete fool of himself; he's become fodder for laughter; a buffoon.

 

[Sol88]

Why the hell do you think REAL science actually do missions like this? If they already knew everything there was to know, like the quasi-religious neo-Velikovskian nutters over at Thunderbolts, then there wouldn't be any point in sending them, would there? That's how we learn things. We know more today than we did 10 years ago. We knew more 10 years ago than we did in the 60's, etc, etc.
The mechanism of the dissociation of the H2O has turned out to be a two step process, but it is still dissociation of H2O, initiated by a photon.
Surely the fact that there is H2O to dissociate is far more blushworthy for EU.
Not to mention the density. Or the lack of any electrical activity.

BUT you've been nothing but surprised! NOTHING from the dirtysnowball theory has confirmed the theory that comets are primordial leftovers from the formation of the solar system

The biggest mystery....Where's the ICE?

RC is more than happy to invoke hidden subsurface ice from the MUPUS experiment because it hit something HARDER than expected. When a comets structure is highly porous with the density of PUMICE (highly porous ROCK).

Now we are told the heat from the sun can reach far enough to heat up sublimating ICE's even in shadow and retain enough grunt to keep going after dark?

 

[Sol88]

I assume that you mean that Rosetta researchers are finding interesting and sometimes surprising (e.g. the secondary electron impact dissociation as observed by ALICE) plasma physical effects. Two examples of recently published papers by the Rosetta Plasma Consortium:

The Rosetta Ion and Electron Sensor (IES) measurement of the development of pickup ions from comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

Spatial distribution of low-energy plasma around comet 67P/CG from Rosetta measurements

However, this all contradicts basically everything that the ech is claiming.

Tusenfem, are you saying SPACE PLASMA PHYSICS are a done thing?

The Tethered Satellite System Reflight (TSS-1R) says

Numerous space physics and plasma theories are being
revised or overturned by data gathered during the Tethered
Satellite System Reflight (TSS-1R) experiments on Space
Shuttle Columbia's STS-75 mission last March. Models, accepted by scientists for more than 30 years,
are incorrect and must be rewritten. This assessment follows
analysis by a joint U.S.-Italian Tethered Satellite
investigating team of the information gathered during the mission

LINK

So of course the plasma environment around a comet is well known and modeled and all other factors can be ruled out other than sublimation and Photodissociation!!! No new surprises like secondary electron impacts doing a lot of the leg work or anything

As far as I know the EC mob have never sent a probe to a comet so I guess if the mainstream can be surprised, so can the EU mob.

Has the comets song changed yet?

 

[Sol88]

In Monument Valley last week I saw the Giant Sky Bunny. I wanted to point it out to my wife but a whale ate it before she got back.

What are your thoughts on the Giant Sky Bunny Theory?

Hide your carrots!

 

[jonesdave116]

The biggest mystery....Where's the ICE?

It is ice that is causing H2O and CO2 to sublimate. What else could it be? There is no other explanation than ices. What would EU have us believe is causing the observation of this directly observed H2O & CO2? Preferably something that doesn't involve >10^7 ions cm^3 in the solar wind. Something that doesn't invoke invisible electrical woo. Something that can account for it close to the surface on the sunward side. Something that can account for it coming from a body of 470 kg m^3 density, that doesn't invoke insane but unseen voltages on the comet.

Principle of parsimony. It's ice. So sensitive is the sensing of the microwave instrument on MIRO, that we can even tell you that some of the ice contains H216O, and some of it H218O.

 

[jonesdave116]

RC is more than happy to invoke hidden subsurface ice from the MUPUS experiment because it hit something HARDER than expected. When a comets structure is highly porous with the density of PUMICE (highly porous ROCK).

Now we are told the heat from the sun can reach far enough to heat up sublimating ICE's even in shadow and retain enough grunt to keep going after dark?

We are told, although I haven't seen recent data, that the surface dust may vary in thickness, and may only be millimeters to centimeters deep. The temperature of a dark body at the distance of 67P when the ALICE data were taken would be about 21C. This is very dark surface material. Go down to your nearest beach on a nice day, and see how warm the sand is a few mm below the surface. If it's a black sand beach (like Piha, which RC may well know), you'll find that even in those temps, it'll be too warm to walk on in bare feet.
Now have a look at a phase diagram for H2O or CO2, and see at what temperatures those solids will start to sublimate at in the pressures that 67P experiences (i.e. basically a vacuum). Now, assuming that the hard material encountered by the MUPUS instrument was solid ice, then I really can't see what the problem is here.
However, if one wanted that hard surface to be silicate rock, then you have a problem, because those temperatures will not cause the observed vapour. You'd need much, much higher temps to liberate O- from the rock. If that is even possible. And those temps are not seen.
But nobody in their right mind would suggest it is silicate rock.

 

[jonesdave116]

Correction, that should read: "quasi-religious neo-Velikovskian nutters over at Thunderdolts".

And have you looked at their pathetic forum recently? They are only getting two or three comments per day; it has turned into a ghost town over at the Thunderdolts Forum.

It's incredibly funny to read the stuff on there. Earth orbiting proto-Saturn could be a reason why Europeans have light coloured skin! Genius.

Mummification and fossilization caused by electric woo! Brilliant.

Pluto's moons may be electrically unstable! Electrifying.

Io, Europa, Saturn, everything's electrical, I tell you!

Honestly, it's a goldmine of guff, a cornucopia of crap, a bounty of BS.

No wonder Dave Smith, one of the EU wallahs, distanced himself from it in a reply to Tom Bridgman on TB's blog.

 

[Dancing David]

Lucky we went then ay

Makes you wonder, what else is going to be a surprise for the mainstream


Now I spose all we need to do is work out why the density of a comet is what it is and job done yeah?

This is silly, you have the known mass of the orbiting satellite, you have the know mass of the comet from orbital mechanics, you have the volume of the comet.

So where exactly is the density problem?

 

[jonesdave116]

So where exactly is the density problem?

The problem David, is that the density doesn't match that of rock. And that is a problem.

For EU, that is

 

[Dancing David]

The problem David, is that the density doesn't match that of rock. And that is a problem.

For EU, that is

Sol88 most likely confuses hardness with density, but they deny that a plow wall can be as hard as a rock at -20 F

 

[ferd burfle]

Sol88 most likely confuses hardness with density...

The EU proponents have repeatedly confused the two. They don't understand the simplest concepts from 7th grade science and yet they presume to correct PhD astrophysicists, and arrogantly at that..