Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Fine]

Hendry's scenario is just one of many possible. The fact that there are more then one possible way to climb through the window actually strengthens that hypothesis. It's noticeable that Hendry was on the cautious side with his assumptions e.g. in his reconstruction Rudy has to open the shutter first. In fact from Filomena's confused testimony it's entirely possible that the shutter was left wide open.
As to the "blunder" you found, I think you misremembered what Hendry wrote, it is actually fully consistent with my own view. It's entirely possible Rudy supported himself on his left elbow. Hendry says Rudy is "propping himself up with his left arm". To my far from perfect English comprehension it is basically the same:

_____________________

You're too modest Katody. You solved the problem. A simple mathematical solution that Hendry, and Massei, didn't see. If Rudy could have opened the windows while still standing on the lower window grate, he would have done so. (Wouldn't you??) Then he would have been able to use both arms to pull himself up above the ledge, then fall forward with his chest landing on the windowsill, his head and shoulders now inside the room, then squirming into the room. The "blunder" was blindness.

///

 

[CDHost]

Skeptical Bystander vs. Strange Dave

OK interesting. There was a series of interviews between StrangeDave and PMF's Skeptical bystander in 5 parts. Its maybe worth a listen. Summary below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE-aHNE_sgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdGoKs_nmg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HNMsyS4MtM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDjA8Xky16s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07CcfQuk4l4

____

Summary:

Part 1 -- He tries to make a case that Skeptical Bystander is just a European sympathizer who is favoring the prosecution as part of anti-Americanism. I think that's likely true but irrelevant.

So he start off with the low blow. This is going to be a theme in later parts that she's ignoring the evidence for some strange personal reasons and not addressing the facts. Totally totally unfair, but I have to admit to enjoying seeing PMF get a taste of their own medicine.

Part 2 -- Dave claims to have information from the transcript about the DNA on the Bra clasp and demands page numbers. Skep is put in a weird position but she tries hard. I think in terms of radio listeners he probably won the debate though factually I have to give it to her. Tough to deal with the host bald faced lying. That being said he lays some ground work in her refusing to discuss testimony.

He then switches to a discusion of the knife and how this couldn't be the murder weapon. Skep declines to discuss.

Part 3 -- If you are going to listen to one of the 5 this is the one.

Dave mops the floor with Skep. Dave pushes with some sort of angle with the wounds being inconsistent with the knife. Again Skep declines arguing she doesn't know forensics. Dave pushes the rape angle that this was not a murder, but a rape/torture/murder and thus the dynamics are entirely different. IMHO this has always been an extreme weakness for both Massei & Mignini case and Skep refuses to discuss it. I give this round to him. Basically Skep's argument comes off as I want to discuss the case but not:

• Witness testimony
• Physical evidence
• The murder weapon
• The murder wounds
• The prosecutions reconstruction of the murder
• The motive

In other words discuss the case without discussing it. I'm floored she did as badly as she did on these questions.

They then move on to the topics of drugs. And he catches Skep in begging the question she asserts drugs were involved in the murder using this argument that RS and AK admit to using drugs that night which of course begs the question. I.E.

prem-a) We don't need as much motive since this was a drug homicide
prem-b) AK and RS admit to using drugs
prem-c) (hidden premise) that AK and RS committed the homicide
___

conclusion -- therefore we can conclude AK and RS committed the homicide.

Step 4 --
Dave makes a strong case: no weapon + no motive is not enough to convict.

Skeptical Bystander argues that she doesn't want AK in jail. Which I would say is SB's first lie. She throws a fit about Dave treating Meredith like a normal murder victim, discussing injuries as injuries without any sense of worship. Mainly Dave is making fun of Skeptical Bystander in this one. Its 85% personal attacks and 15% factual definitely skippable. Dave comes off as a jerk. Skeptical Bystander argues that disbelief in the holocaust should be punished by life imprisonment, being charitable she may have been just being defense and not believe in life for thought crime.

But I would comment that's a perfectly good example of how people during a harsh interrogation say stuff they don't really mean. And one I hope SB takes to heart in her later comments about AK and RS "lying". And mind you she should could have just hung up the phone and it was one on one nor where their any real consequences and inside 30 minutes; she was saying crap.

Part 5 -- Skeptical Bystander claims to be "neutral, unexcitable, and having an open mind". In this part Skeptical Bystander makes a naked appeal to authority: truth is what the authorities believe. Dave calls her on this and they debate the nature of truth. Skep takes the position that PMF doesn't exist to convince. Dave accuses her of running a blog that is "all one sided" and she firmly denies this.

 

[Chris C]

I'm pretty certain he wore a suit to court everyday.

Im betting he could afford one also, considering he wasn't locked up in jail.

 

[Kaosium]

Because she made an error, it does happen. But that's boring compared to making up a wild conspiracy theory involving planted evidence, Hitler-like prosecutors, depraved police officers all with a single mission: to keep Saint Amanda, the patron saint of Seattle, in prison forever....


....just cause she's beautiful!

Not exactly, just corrupt institutions with marginal oversight who thus think they can get away with anything covering their asses and scapegoating their victims. It's hardly a new story, perhaps the most mundane and banal 'conspiracy' you could find in a cursory glance of history.

What's the most interesting is how they got anyone to ever believe it, as poorly as they did it. For that they needed the lickspittle Italian paparazzi who wouldn't question anything as long as they got their daily tidbits of juicy sleaze, and right-wing British tabloids to broadcast that trash to the four corners of the earth.

 

[Alt+F4]

He claims to have the trial transcripts, and be quoting from transcripts.

I wonder if this is true. I've heard someone claim that you can get it from the Perugia court for 2 Euros a page. And if it's 50,000 pages as some have supposed you're looking at 100,000 Euros. Then of course you would need a translation at let's say the cheapest price, 1 Euro a page.

That would translate into over 200,000 dollars (US).

Hmmmm......

 

[Chris C]

Not exactly, just corrupt institutions with marginal oversight who thus think they can get away with anything covering their asses and scapegoating their victims. It's hardly a new story, perhaps the most mundane and banal 'conspiracy' you could find in a cursory glance of history.

What's the most interesting is how they got anyone to ever believe it, as poorly as they did it. For that they needed the lickspittle Italian paparazzi who wouldn't question anything as long as they got their daily tidbits of juicy sleaze, and right-wing British tabloids to broadcast that trash to the four corners of the earth.

Why does it have to be right-wing? Wouldn't right-wing be considered conservative, and left-wing be liberal. Thus a conservative news paper wouldn't print this trash. Where as a more liberal news paper would. Unless you are saying the news papers supported conservative political views. However you were deliberate with saying tabloids, and I didn't know tabloids were even considered conservative.

 

[Kaosium]

According to Time Magazine, Italian women cops are scary!

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1926487,00.html#ixzz1C4Y5OjWl​

LOL! Thanks for the link, intriguing article. I can guess where the fashion reports came from "— With reporting by Giulia Alagna."

Isn't it interesting she was so 'devoted' to this case she showed up for most sessions even though she wasn't required to appear, and her part of the 'investigation' was in fact thrown out by the Supreme Court?

 

[Withnail1969]

Not at all. Are you saying that Amanda had nothing else to wear but that Beatles tee?

She's entitled to wear what she wants. If 'the court' didn't like it, they could ask her to wear something else.

How many other people do you think walked in and out of the court during the trial? That's how a courtroom works. When I was on jury duty the last time I couldn't believe how many people walked in an out of the courtroom while the trial was in session.

Ridiculous comparison again.

 

[CDHost]

It's all right to be disrespectful as long as you dress properly. That's deep.

Well it took some time but I found something I agree with Alt+F4 on. Wearing a tee shirt is disrespectful to the court. She does owe the court more than that. And a lot of her behavior was inappropriate. That being said, I think she deserved being yelled or if she kept it up maybe even a £200 fine for contempt; it should have had no bearing on whether she does a quarter century in prison.

I don't hold it against her though. Before she was convicted she had a wonderful joy, a belief that nothing could go really wrong in her life. Its one of the reasons I've liked her, so much. She still, in Rocco's book has some of that. I think its an amazing tribute to her parents that she made it to 20 with that intact. I wish we lived in the kind of world where that sort of joy and faith weren't so cruelly punished.

 

[Withnail1969]

Why does it have to be right-wing? Wouldn't right-wing be considered conservative, and left-wing be liberal. Thus a conservative news paper wouldn't print this trash. Where as a more liberal news paper would. Unless you are saying the news papers supported conservative political views. However you were deliberate with saying tabloids, and I didn't know tabloids were even considered conservative.

We don't really have the 'conservative/liberal' thing in the UK. We have a Conservative party and a Liberal Democrat party which are currently ruling the country in a coalition with the Labour party in opposition.

The description of the Daily Mail as right wing is correct.

 

[Katody Matrass]

_____________________

You're too modest Katody. You solved the problem. A simple mathematical solution that Hendry, and Massei, didn't see. If Rudy could have opened the windows while still standing on the lower window grate, he would have done so. (Wouldn't you??) Then he would have been able to use both arms to pull himself up above the ledge, then fall forward with his chest landing on the windowsill, his head and shoulders now inside the room, then squirming into the room. The "blunder" was blindness.

I'd love to see you pointing out errors in my reasoning. Don't hesitate if you find any. Honest discussion is my goal, feel free to join in whenever you fancy

 

[Kaosium]

Why does it have to be right-wing? Wouldn't right-wing be considered conservative, and left-wing be liberal. Thus a conservative news paper wouldn't print this trash. Where as a more liberal news paper would. Unless you are saying the news papers supported conservative political views. However you were deliberate with saying tabloids, and I didn't know tabloids were even considered conservative.

It is different in Britain. The main perpetrator of the 'Foxy Knoxy' mythology was the Daily Mail, whose niche in their media is to appeal to conservative voters, many of them who think the Tories are too 'wet' (wimpy)for their tastes. The impact it had, is they and the Sun (which actually has topless girls on page three!) generally publish racy stories like those found in the supermarket checkout lines, and also tend to be 'law and order' and thus back the police and in this case didn't question the numerous lies or look closely at the suspicious things that happened.

The original announcement by Perugian authorities of a murder involving three people raping and killing a girl made this a natural for that genre, and thus it appears they became the most vocal media on the scene and that seeped into more stodgy publications like The Daily Telegraph which is generally considered the higher brow right-wing paper in Britain and is not a tabloid--but would tend to back police instinctively. Think of the Sun and the Mail as a combination of the New York Post and a supermarket check-out publication and you'd pretty much have a decent idea of what they are.

 

[Withnail1969]

It is different in Britain. The main perpetrator of the 'Foxy Knoxy' mythology was the Daily Mail, whose niche in their media is to appeal to conservative voters, many of them who think the Tories are too 'wet' (wimpy)for their tastes. The impact it had, is they and the Sun (which actually has topless girls on page three!) generally publish racy stories like those found in the supermarket checkout lines, and also tend to be 'law and order' and thus back the police and in this case didn't question the numerous lies or look closely at the suspicious things that happened.

The original announcement by Perugian authorities of a murder involving three people raping and killing a girl made this a natural for that genre, and thus it appears they became the most vocal media on the scene and that seeped into more stodgy publications like The Daily Telegraph which is generally considered the higher brow right-wing paper in Britain and is not a tabloid--but would tend to back police instinctively. Think of the Sun and the Mail as a combination of the New York Post and a supermarket check-out publication and you'd pretty much have a decent idea of what they are.

One should also bear in mind that Britain is one of the world's least religious countries - almost nobody goes to church and most people are basically atheists. So that element is missing. Also there's almost no gun ownership, very little enthusiasm for war, strong support for State healthcare, no equivalent of anything like the Teabaggers...

Basically Britain is a very different society to America, things just don't map across from one country to another.

 

[Kaosium]

Skeptical Bystander argues that she doesn't want AK in jail. Which I would say is SB's first lie. She throws a fit about Dave about treating Meredith like a normal murder victim, discussing injuries as injuries without any sense of worship. Mainly Dave is making fun of Skeptical Bystander in this one. Its 85% personal attacks and 15% factual definitely skippable. Dave comes off as a jerk. Skeptical Bystander argues that disbelief in the holocaust should be punished by life imprisonment, being charitable she may have been just being defense and not believe in life for thought crime.

But I would comment that's a perfectly good example of how people during a harsh interrogation say stuff they don't really mean. And one I hope SB takes to heart in her later comments about AK and RS "lying". And mind you she should could have just hung up the phone and it was one on one nor where their any real consequences and inside 30 minutes; she was saying crap.

Part 5 -- Skeptical Bystander claims to be "neutral, unexcitable, and having an open mind". In this part Skeptical Bystander makes a naked appeal to authority: truth is what the authorities believe. Dave calls her on this and they debate the nature of truth. Skep takes the position that PMF doesn't exist to convince. Dave accuses her of running a blog that is "all one sided" and she firmly denies this.

I came across this too, when I was looking into why this debate had degenerated into the abyss. Quite frankly watching this I wanted to reach through the screen and bounce 'Strange Dave's' head off his desk a few times, even though I agreed with his point of view.

As for the last which I highlighted, if you go back to when she said that you'd find it wasn't like it is now, or was in October when I was so mystified by what I saw there. It was a different environment, even though most who participated did indeed think they were guilty. However there were dissenters and their imput was permitted.

 

[RWVBWL]

Rudy Guede isn't light skinned black. He is about medium. There would be no reflection off his skin. Go to the 21 second mark. Dont play, just slide over. You will see a small section of the persons face. Then a few seconds later head turns again and you see the light skinned face again. The person is wearing either a helmet or has a hood and fleece(balaclava) on.

Hi Chris C and others,
In Candace Dempsey's latest posting there is a photograph of Rudy Guede wearing a jacket, and his face appears to be front lit:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/235486.asp

Here's another couple of mugs shots of Rudy:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/179047.asp

In that 1st photograph, he definately does not have a light skin complexion.
Reading this article further, it looks like there were some decent photographs from the CCTV video camera printed in a September 2009 OGGI Magazine article.

In comparison, here is the CCTV video link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tH-klo4nGQ

I have my doubts that the CCTV video is Rudy Guede, but if so, he should be wearing Nike Outbreak 2 sneakers.
I can't seem to find the answer to this, so I'll ask you folks:
Does anyone know what the color was of the sneakers Rudy Guede wore that night Merdith Kercher was murdered?
And what color sneakers do you believe the person in the CCTV video clip is wearing?
Thanks, RW

PS-If you did look at this link,
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/179047.asp
you saw 2 photo's of Rudy Guede, taken before the murder of Meredith Kercher.

A couple of commments:
1) Why did Rudy Guede have his mug shot taken by the Polizia Scientifica Perugia before her murder?
Was he arrested and/or jailed for something that I am unaware of? Is this somehow related to Rudy Guede possibly being a police informer?

2) In the 2nd mug shot, taken by the Questura di Milano, I assume this was when he was found in the nursery/kindergarten school and was in possesion of stolen property. Rudy also looked the same in the Oggi article photograph when he was arrested by the German police while on the run.
What happened to the clean cut Rudy Guede in the 1st mug shots vs the haggard looking Rudy Guede in the 2nd mug shots and the Oggi article arrest shots from the German Police? He looks kinda thrashed, in my opinion...

 

[Withnail1969]

I can't seem to find the answer to this, so I'll ask you folks:
Does anyone know what the color was of the sneakers Rudy Guede wore that night Merdith Kercher was murdered? And what color sneakers do you believe the person in the CCTV video clip is wearing?
Thanks, RW

I am certain the sneakers Rudy wore were white, because he needed to rinse blood off them in the bathroom in case anyone noticed the stains on his way home. I don't know if there's definite proof online anywhere.

 

[Chris C]

It is different in Britain. The main perpetrator of the 'Foxy Knoxy' mythology was the Daily Mail, whose niche in their media is to appeal to conservative voters, many of them who think the Tories are too 'wet' (wimpy)for their tastes. The impact it had, is they and the Sun (which actually has topless girls on page three!) generally publish racy stories like those found in the supermarket checkout lines, and also tend to be 'law and order' and thus back the police and in this case didn't question the numerous lies or look closely at the suspicious things that happened.

The original announcement by Perugian authorities of a murder involving three people raping and killing a girl made this a natural for that genre, and thus it appears they became the most vocal media on the scene and that seeped into more stodgy publications like The Daily Telegraph which is generally considered the higher brow right-wing paper in Britain and is not a tabloid--but would tend to back police instinctively. Think of the Sun and the Mail as a combination of the New York Post and a supermarket check-out publication and you'd pretty much have a decent idea of what they are.

Well then I was right. I did say unless the newspaper supported conservative political views. I was just looking for a clarification of the right-wing comment. Whether it was in reference to political conservative or a different type of conservative. Since i dont read the daily mail, i dont know their views. And if your wondering, I'm liberal in nearly all my political views except those that involve socialist ideas.

 

[Withnail1969]

Well then I was right. I did say unless the newspaper supported conservative political views. I was just looking for a clarification of the right-wing comment. Whether it was in reference to political conservative or a different type of conservative. Since i dont read the daily mail, i dont know their views. And if your wondering, I'm liberal in nearly all my political views except those that involve socialist ideas.

That would make you an extreme right winger in the UK, far outside anything on our political spectrum.

 

[Chris C]

That would make you an extreme right winger in the UK, far outside anything on our political spectrum.

That just makes me moderate in America. Between left wing and right wing.

 

[Withnail1969]

That just makes me moderate in America. Between left wing and right wing.

Yes, I'm aware how successful American corporations have been at indoctrinating the people into believing that things like State healthcare are a bad thing. Luckily here in Europe we don't share those views.