Continuation Part 19: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Matthew Best]

When do the admins step in? The continual linking to info that does not even address the question asked? The posting of pictures which refute the very point they are trying to make?

None of those things is against the rules, so the admins will not be stepping in to stop them.

 

[Bill Williams]

None of those things is against the rules, so the admins will not be stepping in to stop them.

6. You will not spam, flood or otherwise post in a manner that disrupts the functioning of the Forum, this includes using disruptive formatting in your posts and also includes using the Forum for commercial purposes.

 

[Vixen]

The break-in took place first. Rudy was still rummaging around for loot after he killed Meredith. For example, we know he dug around for her phones and possibly money.

We don't know that at all. Amanda knew Mez' phones had been discarded. that's why she only bothered to let them ring for a second or two.

She was found to have circa €300 on her person. Well, well, well.

 

[Vixen]

Oh. Oh dear. Seriously?

I'm going to repeat the paragraph that I wrote, and I will highlight the relevant conditionalities to help make them easier to comprehend:

If you can find any documented cases where groups of youths (or groups of any type, for that matter) have a) started off their group criminal activities with group rape or group murder, without having previously gone through a long, gradual escalation of severity of group criminal acts, and/or b) committed serious group criminal acts such as group rape or group murder within several days of having met for the first time, I'll be (as they say) "all ears". But you won't be able to find any.

Care to have another go? As a final reminder: cases where the rapes/murders have been committed a) by well-established gangs, and/or b) by gangs who have also previously engaged in escalating acts of antisocial behaviour and lower-level criminal behaviour will not meet the qualifying criteria.

Please get a grip! The strawman the murder was a gang-rape is yours. Another dismal logical fallacy.

 

[Vixen]

Here's a police pic showing the bars

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_436055653336bdd276.jpg[/qimg]

How lovely the glass has been kicked in and the con artist has a climbing frame.

 

[Vixen]

It's time to apologize, Vixen.

Shan't. That is not "a police pic"; it is a defense con artist and we can see the outstretched hands ready to catch him in case he fell.

 

[Vixen]

Are you sure that isn't a defense picture? I'm sure the guy is a defense lawyer, note the shoes.

Regardless the bars are the same as the alleged window Vixen claimed.

I've already pointed to Massei and he didn't make the claims Vixen made.

The video demonstrates clearly that the distance from the lower window to the upper window is not 10 feet or even 9 feet but more like 6 1/2 to 7 feet from the lower sill. The climber in the video doesn't walk up the bars but rather grabs the upper bars in his move up.

You are right, it is a defense lawyer, so not a police pic as claimed. Perhaps "Bill" and Daydream will practise what they preach and apologise for misleading the reader.

Yes, Grinder, these defense videos are all very dodgy. Certainly not up to court level standard, which is why it's confined to an obscure tv production which included a talcum powder simulation demonstrating how Raff's DNA got on the bra clasp

 

[LondonJohn]

Please get a grip! The strawman the murder was a gang-rape is yours. Another dismal logical fallacy.

Need I point out that this is a classic example of moving the goalposts (anyone who traces back the posts on this subject will immediately see just how disingenuous the above "response" is....).

Pathetic. The content of Vixen's posts clearly shows an unwillingness to (or inability to) debate in good faith. And that's a shame, because it would be interesting to engage with reasonable, intellectually-honest arguments which challenge one's own. Oh well. Game over.

 

[LondonJohn]

You are right, it is a defense lawyer, so not a police pic as claimed. Perhaps "Bill" and Daydream will practise what they preach and apologise for misleading the reader.

Yes, Grinder, these defense videos are all very dodgy. Certainly not up to court level standard, which is why it's confined to an obscure tv production which included a talcum powder simulation demonstrating how Raff's DNA got on the bra clasp

As Grinder also pointed out, it's moot (for the purposes of the issue under discussion) as to whether the person climbing is doing so on behalf of the police or the defence lawyers. The issue under discussion is the iron grille on the window below Romanelli's window. That picture provides further clear evidence of an iron/steel grille over that window, lying flush against the outer masonry wall of the cottage.

Once again (as so wearily often...) there's blatant intellectual dishonesty on display here.

 

[Methos]

How lovely the glass has been kicked in and the con artist has a climbing frame.

You might want to take a closer look at pages 10 and 12 of this one:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary2/updates/151119/2007-12-31-Photobook-Police-survey-cottage-crime-scene-censored.pdf

 

[LondonJohn]

How lovely the glass has been kicked in and the con artist has a climbing frame.

Epic fail. That is not the frame of the window upon which the man is standing. It is the iron/steel grille which is in front of the window. The window is recessed several inches from the external masonry face. The steel/iron grille is mounted flush with the external masonry face (and thus a few inches in front of the window itself.

Such ignorance (or unwillingness to accept the facts).

 

[Grinder]

How lovely the glass has been kicked in and the con artist has a climbing frame.

Oh yes and not a shard left to be seen and the pattern matches the bars seen on the the video. That must have cost a pretty penny.

Shan't. That is not "a police pic"; it is a defense con artist and we can see the outstretched hands ready to catch him in case he fell.

There is no doubt it is not a police pic but the hand isn't there to catch the climber. The man with hand is with the prosecution and was running up to try to stop the demonstration as it eliminated the idea that someone would have to scale a 10 foot wall as they had been trying to convince everyone was the truth.

 

[LondonJohn]

We don't know that at all. Amanda knew Mez' phones had been discarded. that's why she only bothered to let them ring for a second or two.

She was found to have circa €300 on her person. Well, well, well.

Epic fail. The times recorded in the billing records were the times after which a connection had been made. This doesn't include the time during which the called handset is "ringing".

Therefore, if I called my friend's mobile phone, and it rang for 30 seconds before auto-diverting to voicemail, and I listened to 2 seconds of the voicemail welcome message before disconnecting, this call would show up on the billing records as a 2-second call, not a 32-second call. Likewise, if I called my friend's phone and it was switched off, so I immediately heard a message saying that this phone was not connected, I might hear the first two seconds of that message and then disconnect. Again, this would show on the billing records as a 2-second call.

This is getting tiresome (and increasingly embarrassing)

 

[bagels]

We don't know that at all. Amanda knew Mez' phones had been discarded. that's why she only bothered to let them ring for a second or two.

She was found to have circa €300 on her person. Well, well, well.

Isn't the PGP theory that Amanda tossed the phones so she could ring them without them being heard through Meredith's door to feign concern, while they planned for Filomena to make the discovery? But also she doesn't let them ring at all cause she knows they're discarded? This is what I talked about earlier, Amanda makes all these dumb mistakes constantly but lands on her feet every time. It's incredible.

She stole 300 euros from Meredith, but luckily she has thousands of euros in her bank account, was working a job, and the cash rent was due for her room, so she had a plausible excuse for that too! What a miracle girl.

 

[bagels]

You might want to take a closer look at pages 10 and 12 of this one:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary2/updates/151119/2007-12-31-Photobook-Police-survey-cottage-crime-scene-censored.pdf

As Douglas Adams might say, that about wraps it up for Vixen.

 

[Vixen]

Oh yes and not a shard left to be seen and the pattern matches the bars seen on the the video. That must have cost a pretty penny.



There is no doubt it is not a police pic but the hand isn't there to catch the climber. The man with hand is with the prosecution and was running up to try to stop the demonstration as it eliminated the idea that someone would have to scale a 10 foot wall as they had been trying to convince everyone was the truth.

This here looks like shards.


Even if they are actually metal bar, how does a burglar know the upper window is not similarly barred?

 

[Vixen]

Epic fail. The times recorded in the billing records were the times after which a connection had been made. This doesn't include the time during which the called handset is "ringing".

Therefore, if I called my friend's mobile phone, and it rang for 30 seconds before auto-diverting to voicemail, and I listened to 2 seconds of the voicemail welcome message before disconnecting, this call would show up on the billing records as a 2-second call, not a 32-second call. Likewise, if I called my friend's phone and it was switched off, so I immediately heard a message saying that this phone was not connected, I might hear the first two seconds of that message and then disconnect. Again, this would show on the billing records as a 2-second call.

This is getting tiresome (and increasingly embarrassing)

Look at Amanda's phone log - or even Mez' - Amanda's calls to Mez that day are significantly shorter than any other call logged for the entire log.

Perhaps she knew Mez was dead.

 

[Vixen]

You might want to take a closer look at pages 10 and 12 of this one:
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/docupl/spublic/filelibrary2/updates/151119/2007-12-31-Photobook-Police-survey-cottage-crime-scene-censored.pdf

Take a close look at pages 12 and 13: the foliage beneath the window show no sign of disturbance at all.

Here's an expert's view on why police know the burglary was staged.

Detailed analysis here:

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...rt_a_visual_guide_to_the_staged_break-in_via/

 

[Vixen]

Isn't the PGP theory that Amanda tossed the phones so she could ring them without them being heard through Meredith's door to feign concern, while they planned for Filomena to make the discovery? But also she doesn't let them ring at all cause she knows they're discarded? This is what I talked about earlier, Amanda makes all these dumb mistakes constantly but lands on her feet every time. It's incredible.

She stole 300 euros from Meredith, but luckily she has thousands of euros in her bank account, was working a job, and the cash rent was due for her room, so she had a plausible excuse for that too! What a miracle girl.

She makes dumb mistakes, but she's always quick to find an "explanation" for them.

For example, "I cannot lie, Mom, I was there!"

Becomes, Oh, I was talking about Raff's place.

Then she wonders why she has a reputation as a liar.

Mignini diplomatically calls it "very astute".

You wonder what kind of mother endorses and encourages criminal behaviour.

 

[Grinder]

This here looks like shards.


Even if they are actually metal bar, how does a burglar know the upper window is not similarly barred?

Look at the picture on 10 and 12. Note that there are no shutters on the window below because they take the place of the shutters for security as the inner shutters work for keeping the light out and privacy.

The lower windows and in fact most of the windows in the house had bars not outside shutters. Next you'll be telling us that Filomena;s window did have bars and couldn't have been entered at all. I mean really why not go all the way and just say that the defense photoshopped out the bars and they bribed the landlady to verify it?