Continuation Part 10: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Chris_Halkides]

some alternatives for when and how the DNA came to be on the clasp

Chris, if we accept Raffaele never touched the clasp, there might be four possibilities
1. Accidental contamination, R dna on clasp.
2. Deliberate contamination, R dna on clasp.
3. R dna not on clasp, accidental machine contamination.
4. R dna not on clasp, deliberate machine contamination.

Is this right, and are there other possibilities?
Can any of these be ruled out?

This looks like a good start. I think that deliberate contamination is the same thing as evidence tampering and would use the latter term. We might also note that the police only have control over a piece of item at some point after a crime is committed, and DNA could be transferred innocently, either before or after the crime, but before the evidence is taken into custody. I think that 4 is less likely than 2.

 

[Desert Fox]

Chris, if we accept Raffaele never touched the clasp, there might be four possibilities
1. Accidental contamination, R dna on clasp.
2. Deliberate contamination, R dna on clasp.
3. R dna not on clasp, accidental machine contamination.
4. R dna not on clasp, deliberate machine contamination.

Is this right, and are there other possibilities?Can any of these be ruled out?

Err, yes, he was involved in Meredeth's rape and murder.
Granted, it is far less likely than contamination and would argue that the other evidence is against this possibility.

 

[JREF2010]

Chris, if we accept Raffaele never touched the clasp, there might be four possibilities
1. Accidental contamination, R dna on clasp.
2. Deliberate contamination, R dna on clasp.
3. R dna not on clasp, accidental machine contamination.
4. R dna not on clasp, deliberate machine contamination.

Is this right, and are there other possibilities?
Can any of these be ruled out?

I often think its highly likely Stefoni knew there should be traces there to be found, and is why she cranked up the tool and magnified below the normal RFU.

Long ago someone mentioned Stefoni did not do this to all the other items. So why not? Why did she go on and on into the low low range for these pieces? Its as if she was expecting to find what she was looking for. As if she knew it had to be there. (she put it there)

Stefoni didnt present low RFU peaks on all the other items. So I would consider this a premeditated crime and a manipulation of the data.
This false data then manipulates the non-PHD on science judges, and other's on the jury, who don't even know what RFU levels are and have no clue about contamination and capillary tubes.

Even Judges like Nencini who probably havent really read all the data nor understood the tools and the requirements to run the tools and the manufacturer of the tools recommended procedures. So he didnt really get what Stefonani has done. Instead he just rubber stamp the systems sloppy work , but I think its much more devious than accidental lab work.

The actions speak louder than the data, to cherry pick from such low peaks of noise garbage data is intentional, not an accident. Thats one possibility anyway.

 

[kwill]

That said the circumstances surrounding the collection of the bra clasp and the absurd show that they put on when they discovered the clasp makes me highly skeptical of this being honest procedure.

Were any of them asked in court why they passed it around? Why they put it back on the floor? Just curious . . . it's such a strange pantomime. It would be interesting to know how they explained their behavior.

Hey, behavior! And these are the people who thought AK was weird.

 

[platonov]

Where's teacher

I often think its highly likely Stefoni knew there should be traces there to be found, and is why she cranked up the tool and magnified below the normal RFU.

Long ago someone mentioned Stefoni did not do this to all the other items. So why not? Why did she go on and on into the low low range for these pieces? Its as if she was expecting to find what she was looking for. As if she knew it had to be there. (she put it there)

Stefoni didnt present low RFU peaks on all the other items. So I would consider this a premeditated crime and a manipulation of the data.
This false data then manipulates the non-PHD on science judges, and other's on the jury, who don't even know what RFU levels are and have no clue about contamination and capillary tubes.

Even Judges like Nencini who probably havent really read all the data nor understood the tools and the requirements to run the tools and the manufacturer of the tools recommended procedures. So he didnt really get what Stefonani has done. Instead he just rubber stamp the systems sloppy work , but I think its much more devious than accidental lab work.

The actions speak louder than the data, to cherry pick from such low peaks of noise garbage data is intentional, not an accident. Thats one possibility anyway.

Um, I think you are confusing the 'cranking up' of the knife with the bra clasp.

You are not the first to make this mistake – after all there are 2 items !
Kaosium and many others have fallen into the same pit of confusion.

Here's an idea – Perhaps the Cartwheel DNA class could skip the next lesson.
Have a rest period or Take the class outdoors and pick flowers or something.

 

[carbonjam72]

I often think its highly likely Stefoni knew there should be traces there to be found, and is why she cranked up the tool and magnified below the normal RFU.

Long ago someone mentioned Stefoni did not do this to all the other items. So why not? Why did she go on and on into the low low range for these pieces? Its as if she was expecting to find what she was looking for. As if she knew it had to be there. (she put it there)

Stefoni didnt present low RFU peaks on all the other items. So I would consider this a premeditated crime and a manipulation of the data.
This false data then manipulates the non-PHD on science judges, and other's on the jury, who don't even know what RFU levels are and have no clue about contamination and capillary tubes.

Even Judges like Nencini who probably havent really read all the data nor understood the tools and the requirements to run the tools and the manufacturer of the tools recommended procedures. So he didnt really get what Stefonani has done. Instead he just rubber stamp the systems sloppy work , but I think its much more devious than accidental lab work.

The actions speak louder than the data, to cherry pick from such low peaks of noise garbage data is intentional, not an accident. Thats one possibility anyway.

This is the explanation that resonates with me the most.

The knife blade finding of Ms Kercher's DNA was also suspicious, no?

 

[Desert Fox]

Um, I think you are confusing the 'cranking up' of the knife with the bra clasp.

You are not the first to make this mistake – after all there are 2 items !
Kaosium and many others have fallen into the same pit of confusion.

Here's an idea – Perhaps the Cartwheel DNA class could skip the next lesson.
Have a rest period or Take the class outdoors and pick flowers or something.

The simple fact is that experts from around the world do see a problem with the DNA evidence. The weight of experts seems to be clearly that there is a problem. No matter what games that the pro guilt side says, there is no real getting around that.

On any issue, when the weight of expert positions is on a certain position, you need to at very least pay close attention.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

out of order

One thing that strikes me as odd. The real-time PCR machine was supposedly not working when the knife was in the lab, and that is why the Qubit fluorometer was used. When the bra clasp was being quantified, they were seeing odd results suggesting that it was not working properly, as Diocletus pointed out today. I would argue that the defense is entitled to see a machine log for all of the key instruments. How often was this lab experiencing problems? How did they respond?

 

[acbytesla]

Were any of them asked in court why they passed it around? Why they put it back on the floor? Just curious . . . it's such a strange pantomime. It would be interesting to know how they explained their behavior.

Hey, behavior! And these are the people who thought AK was weird.

You know kwill I don't know. I read that many people in the courtroom laughed. I think the defense just let the video speak for itself.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

What should have happened in Florence

You know kwill I don't know. I read that many people in the courtroom laughed. I think the defense just let the video speak for itself.

acbytesla,

Imagine that in Florence one of the attorneys read back testimony making the reaching the second story sound like climbing the Khumbu icefall. Then imagine the attorney running the tape of the climbing enthusiast getting up there in well under a minute.

 

[Samson]

Ted Simon today

I got involved after her initial conviction at the end of ’09. On her appellate trial, she was actually found innocent. Thereafter, the prosecution appealed to the country’s Supreme Court and had her innocent verdict reversed. She went back for a new appellate court trial, where she was convicted. And now, it’s back on appeal.

Is this trial ever going to end?
There’s only one thing that is consistent about this particular case: There’s a compelling and profound absence of evidence. It’s a nightmare that should end, and it’s completely and wholly unjust.

I have seen defence attorneys gain controversial acquittals for murder, but never make public statements of this nature. Can anyone find a similar statement from another case?

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/08/11/want-answers-theodore-simon/

 

[Kaosium]

Um, I think you are confusing the 'cranking up' of the knife with the bra clasp.

You are not the first to make this mistake – after all there are 2 items !
Kaosium and many others have fallen into the same pit of confusion.

Here's an idea – Perhaps the Cartwheel DNA class could skip the next lesson.
Have a rest period or Take the class outdoors and pick flowers or something.

Regardless of the terminology used, you don't have a profile of Raffaele without going below the 100 RFU threshold she employed for almost all the samples. That is a low template sample too, and as 'teacher' noted today the estimated amount that we've been bandying about for years is dependent upon equipment that was indicating it was malfunctioning.

 

[acbytesla]

acbytesla,

Imagine that in Florence one of the attorneys read back testimony making the reaching the second story sound like climbing the Khumbu icefall. Then imagine the attorney running the tape of the climbing enthusiast getting up there in well under a minute.

I hate to imagine that Chris, because it is so easy. Go back and watch it again. From the ground to sitting on the sill is done in less than 10 seconds. 10 SECONDS. There is nothing hard about scaling that wall and entering.

Interestingly, neither Massei or Nencini said this would have been difficult but both dismissed this as a point of entry. Which I find bizarre.
I feel like it is like me when I go home. I frequently take a different route home, just to make the day different. How can anyone really say that Rudy wouldn't have taken this route into the house when it clearly is easy?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

lawyers for the three Duke lacrosse players

Samson, The lawyers for the Duke lacrosse three were pretty forceful in their public statements. I don't have any quotes handy at the moment, but the book "Until Proven Innocent" might have some.

 

[Planigale]

But this is a myth of the innocentisti. Vecchiotti and Conti are not "independent" experts, they are judge appointed experts. Only the judge is independent. The judge is supposed to be neutral but only until he judges. After he judges he takes a side, from that moment he is considering biased. But Hellmann Zanetti not only have taken a side, they have also been completely discredited. The SC destroyed them completely, challenged Vecchiotti's "intellectual honesty" and basically pointed her making up document content, and all of Hellmann's trial conduct and decisions were annulled (except part of the calunnia finding). Then we had also external source claiming that the defence was having contacts with Vecchiotti and Conti before the publishing of their report (through experts Hampikiam and Budowle). Btw Vecchiotti has a dubious reputation herself also due to other cases.
How can this expert be anyhow considers "neutral"? This is really unduly naive.

The important issue here is the recognition that 'only the judge is independent'. Stefanoni, Novelli atc. are not independent. Stefanoni works for the Scientific Police. The head of the laboratory is a police officer. The scientific police are a division of the national police who are investigating the case. It is obvious that far from allowing the evidence to speak for itself, that Stefanoni used a suspect directed approach, picking evidence that favoured guilt and ignoring evidence favouring innocence. A definite bias that means any of her opinions should be regarded as suspect.

 

[Planigale]

Vecchiotti's report quote from court documents that she is asked about, she says she never heard about this content before. Just to da one. Btw Stefanoni has authored the best read publication in her field in recent year. Vecchiotti is known for having performed "the worse forensic analysis in Italian history" on the notorious Olgiata case, she fell under suspicion for the Ghira case and took part with her friend Albarello in swapping Cucchi's broken vertebra with an intact one (so to favor defence of the accused). Her co- worker on main cases, Pascali, is even under trial for expert fraud.
Stefano I is a member of ENFSI and has two ISO certifications while Vecchiotti doesn't even have a temperature log in her empty refrigerator, actually does not even have a thermometer, amf does not protect the samples which she refuses to analyze (violating court ordnances).

I and others have told you before this (highlighted) is untrue. Stefanoni is not a member of ENFSI, nor is she ISO certified. Why do you repeat errors? If you have evidence to contradict me give it. Do you think that if you keep repeat something that is untrue others will believe it?

The problem with the knife is GIGO. just because a machine gives a result does not mean the result has any meaning. If you do not follow the correct methods you do not know what you are measuring. Stefanoni has never provided a copy of the departments SOP for doing LCN work. She has never provided copies of the environmental surveillance LCN labs need to do to monitor for environmental contamination. She has never provided the results of STR typing of negative controls from the knife run to demonstrate there was no in laboratory contamination.

Btw Stefanoni has authored the best read publication in her field in recent year. - could you reference the paper? I cannot find one by her in last year. Even better what is the citation index for this paper?

 

[Dan O.]

Btw Stefanoni has authored the best read publication in her field in recent year. - could you reference the paper? I cannot find one by her in last year. Even better what is the citation index for this paper?

He's probably talking about the geriatrician again.

 

[platonov]

Does Team AK approve of this message.

Who will stop the tanks?

http://gmancasefile.com/1/post/2014/08/who-will-stop-the-tanks.html

Wow, just Wow.

I'm not even going to ask what the tanks in Tienanmen Sq represent.
[RS, his family, Italian Justice, the black helicopters, the aliens behind the conspiracy ??]

But I have a Q.
Is it true that, in a move reminiscent of halides1's call to retry RG after Cassation overturned the acquittal, the wife of the author of this piece has called for ......

The execution of Rudy Guede.

What is going on over in crazytown ??
Is RS not the current enemy ?

 

[Samson]

Wow, just Wow.

I'm not even going to ask what the tanks in Tienanmen Sq represent.
[RS, his family, Italian Justice, the black helicopters, the aliens behind the conspiracy ??]

But I have a Q.
Is it true that, in a move reminiscent of halides1's call to retry RG after Cassation overturned the acquittal, the wife of the author of this piece has called for ......

The execution of Rudy Guede.

What is going on over in crazytown ??
Is RS not the current enemy ?

This would focus his mind. He might assist the Kercher family in their search for the truth if this execution could be avoided. He might be offered a deal, a lifetime sinecure teaching young women the art of basketball playing if he told a truth that tied the evidence into a satisfying whole.

 

[Desert Fox]

This stuck me. . . . . Granted, I had been thinking along these lines before but I want to get it out.

Did the defense ever present the blunt case. I think it is one which could be presented without suggesting the cops cooking the evidence and just avoid the issue of police incompetence.

The blunt case is to simply argue that Rudy Guede committed the crime alone. While still rare, single perpetrator stranger sexual assaults and murder are common enough that they are well recorded.

On the other side, the idea of a couple involving a virtual stranger in their sexual fetishes is unknown. Even couples that have been convicted of sexual assault and killing, have any of them invited what amounts to almost a complete stranger to be involved in their actions. Been cases where they involve people they have known for a while.