Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

Her going/not going to the hospital has what to do with Zimmerman shooting and killing an unarmed teenager?

Oh wait. She may have lied about it. Therefore, all the rest of her testimony could be a lie as well. I see.

Remember that when George's lies "inconsistencies" are mentioned.

His going/not going to the hospital has what to do with his shooting and killing an unarmed teenager ? Oh yea, nothing.

And it's not that she "may have " lied - she did lie. It has been acknowledged. It has also been acknowledged by BDLR as something he was required to disclose, but didn't for months.

And that's not to mention her inconsistencies in her 3 different versions, along with her inability to spell the name of her friend since kindergarten.

 

[KatieG]

His going/not going to the hospital has what to do with his shooting and killing an unarmed teenager ? Oh yea, nothing.

And it's not that she "may have " lied - she did lie. It has been acknowledged. It has also been acknowledged by BDLR as something he was required to disclose, but didn't for months.

And that's not to mention her inconsistencies in her 3 different versions, along with her inability to spell the name of her friend since kindergarten.

Which has what to do with the shooting?

 

[Mumbles]

I've sucker punched a guy who was 50 pounds heavier than me (140 vs 190) and he stumbled back about 30 feet before falling down. He got right back up immediately after. All I did was surprise him. There wasn't even a mark on his face afterwards.

Not sure if that's what the topic currently is though...

Yes, I've punched people and made them stumble back as well. Problem is, Zimmerman's claim that he stumbled back would have made him fall *north*, but the fight took place 30-50 feet to the * south * of where he claims he was attacked. This, the claim that Zimmerman somehow squirmed enough to travel tens of feet, sideways, on his back, while someone was on top of him and beating his head against concrete.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I've read it. He describes two people wrestling. And yes, he does describe Martin being on top at one point. And another witness describes Zimmerman being on top at one point. Just like you would expect to see when two people are wrestling.

witness 12:
FDLE:
Crosby: And were they both on the ground?
W12: No. One was on top of the other. I don't know which one.
Crosby: Okay. Were you able to tell from where you were looking through your living room window what these people were wearing?
W12: All I saw while they were on the ground was dark colors. I don't know what... It was just dark.

W12: I know it was big... he was big.
Veaudry: The guy on top.
W12: Well, maybe, yeah, kinda, well... I know there's a guy on the floor and a guy on top. I can't really say how big the guy is, 'cause guy, you know, comparing what's big and small.

BDLR
de la Rionda: How would you describe their physique at all, the guy on top or the guy on bottom?
W12: I know, after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their pictures, I think Zimmerman is definitely on top because of his size.

One witness maybe, yeah, kinda ... described GZ on top.

More details from Witness 6:

Sounds like he got a pretty good look at the action. And yet somehow he missed the part where Zimmerman was sliding around on his back while having his head repeatedly slammed onto the concrete sidewalk.

How do you propose they moved from where they were originally, to the sidewalk, as he described, without GZ sliding on his back ?

Equating Witness 6's account with Zimmerman's claim that he was helplessly trapped under Martin while being repeatedly punched, smothered, and repeatedly having his head slammed onto the pavement is about as disingenuous as equating the multiple witness accounts of an argument with Zimmerman's claim that there was merely a quick three-sentence exchange.

Oh, did you find where the witness defined the argument as more than a few loud exchanges ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Which has what to do with the shooting?

It has to do with her credibility, which has to do with whether she is a credible witness. But surely you knew that ?

 

[Unabogie]

Maybe the state can argue that she was sensitive, since she was so upset she had to go to the hospital ... oh wait ....

You are really trying hard to make sense of what BDLR did. It certainly is confusing.

Wow, that's dishonest beyond belief. I'm "really trying" because you asked me to so you could explain your CT about there really be two DeeDee's and you "understand that".

Remember?

I sort of understand it.

Tell you what - If you can supply me with a cogent explanation of why BDLR refused to allow the deposition of witness 8 to be videotaped, in what appears to be clear violation of the law, I'll see what I can do to help you understand the two DD theory. Deal ?

PS - is the above crazier than suggesting someone was in the car with GZ that night and they were out hunting ?

So I supplied you with two cogent reasons, one of which you even accepted as valid. So now I'm waiting for you to explain your wacky conspiracy theory and why it's not so wacky.

And speaking of dishonesty:

So perhaps you don't need to wait for something terrible to happen before you take threats seriously?

I have never claimed that if events happened the way George claimed they did, that he would have a valid self-defense case. If a person jumped out of the bushes, pummeled him, slammed his head against concrete, and told him about his intention to murder him as he was going for his gun, that'd be self-defense.

I think he's lying. I don't believe him. I think he's at fault.

You realize it's dishonest to strip context from something someone said and pretend it supports your point, don't you?

 

[Unabogie]

It has to do with her credibility, which has to do with whether she is a credible witness. But surely you knew that ?

Spelling affects credibility how?

You think she wasn't actually his childhood friend? Which part do you think she's lying about, because if you don't answer, I'm going to start assuming you think she's an impostor.

 

[johnny karate]

witness 12:
FDLE:
Crosby: And were they both on the ground?
W12: No. One was on top of the other. I don't know which one.
Crosby: Okay. Were you able to tell from where you were looking through your living room window what these people were wearing?
W12: All I saw while they were on the ground was dark colors. I don't know what... It was just dark.

W12: I know it was big... he was big.
Veaudry: The guy on top.
W12: Well, maybe, yeah, kinda, well... I know there's a guy on the floor and a guy on top. I can't really say how big the guy is, 'cause guy, you know, comparing what's big and small.

BDLR
de la Rionda: How would you describe their physique at all, the guy on top or the guy on bottom?
W12: I know, after seeing the TV of what's happening, comparing their pictures, I think Zimmerman is definitely on top because of his size.

One witness maybe, yeah, kinda ... described GZ on top.

Actually, the word she used was "definitely".

But hey, I'm not the one who brought witness testimony into this. You are. And of course, now you want to arbitrarily dismiss whatever bits of it you don't like.

How do you propose they moved from where they were originally, to the sidewalk, as he described, without GZ sliding on his back ?

During the course of wrestling.

You seem married to this idea that Zimmerman was on his back the whole time, even though the witness testimony you brought into the discussion contradicts that notion.

Oh, did you find where the witness defined the argument as more than a few loud exchanges ?

No, what I didn't find is where Zimmerman described it as a few loud exchanges, or even remotely characterized it as an argument.

 

[Megalodon]

I have never claimed that if events happened the way George claimed they did, that he would have a valid self-defense case. If a person jumped out of the bushes, pummeled him, slammed his head against concrete, and told him about his intention to murder him as he was going for his gun, that'd be self-defense.

I think he's lying. I don't believe him. I think he's at fault.

You realize it's dishonest to strip context from something someone said and pretend it supports your point, don't you?

However, that argument is never applied in favor of TM. He needed to wait for something bad to happen before reacting to the much older man that was following him in the dark, that confronted him and in all probability grabbed him. And of course, ultimately shot him.

I think that is very possible that GZ will get away with murder, but murder it was.

 

[Unabogie]

One witness maybe, yeah, kinda ... described GZ on top.

Yeah. And where in George's story was he ever on top?

How do you propose they moved from where they were originally, to the sidewalk, as he described, without GZ sliding on his back ?

On their feet?

 

[Unabogie]

Yes, I've punched people and made them stumble back as well. Problem is, Zimmerman's claim that he stumbled back would have made him fall *north*, but the fight took place 30-50 feet to the * south * of where he claims he was attacked. This, the claim that Zimmerman somehow squirmed enough to travel tens of feet, sideways, on his back, while someone was on top of him and beating his head against concrete.

In fact, in his original version of the story, he does in fact claim he fell back north.

Zimmerman: It was dark. I didn’t even see him getting ready to punch me. As soon as he punched me, I fell backwards, um, into the grass, and then he grabbed,

he was whaling on my head,

and I st..then I started yelling help. When I started yelling for help he grabbed my head and he started hitting my head into the, I, I tried to sit up and yell for help. And then he grabbed my head and starting hitting it into the sidewalk. Um, when he started doing that, I slid into the grass to try and get out from under him and so that he would stop hitting my head into the sidewalk and I was still yelling for help. And I could see people looking and some guy yells out, I’m calling 911. And I said, Help me, help me, he’s killing me. And, he puts his hand on my nose and on my mouth and he says, You’re gonna die tonight. And, I don’t remember much after that.

Yep, he never describes moving 50 feet. He never explains how he got from one place to the other.

 

[Dan O.]

I think I've finished the time marked transcription of George's police call. It's available on the wiki page I created for this at: https://sites.google.com/site/trayvonmartinwiki/zimmerman-nen-call

The times are all relative to the start of the high resolution audio I found at: http://george-zimmerman-news.blogspot.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-911-calls.html

There may be some additional clues to George's location in that audio. At one point, I believe I am hearing voices that may be from a TV in one of the apartments. There is also a hint of an echo some times when George taps his flashlight but I'll need a better correlation tool to map that.

 

[12AX7]

It has to do with her credibility, which has to do with whether she is a credible witness. But surely you knew that ?

Be sure to apply that same standard to George's lies "inconsistencies".

OK?

 

[Unabogie]

I think I've finished the time marked transcription of George's police call. It's available on the wiki page I created for this at: https://sites.google.com/site/trayvonmartinwiki/zimmerman-nen-call

The times are all relative to the start of the high resolution audio I found at: http://george-zimmerman-news.blogspot.com/2012/04/george-zimmerman-911-calls.html

There may be some additional clues to George's location in that audio. At one point, I believe I am hearing voices that may be from a TV in one of the apartments. There is also a hint of an echo some times when George taps his flashlight but I'll need a better correlation tool to map that.

Just wanted to say thanks for spending the time!

ETA:

This one here clarifies what Singleton was getting at in the interview.

LINK

He finishes the word "running" at 2:07.90 and you hear clicks at 2:09:50 and chimes at 2:09:90.

That means that from the time he sees the kid running, he's got the door open in literally 2 seconds. So it's not credible that he got out "to look for an address".

 

[Dan O.]

BTW: if there are any other known facts about this call I'd like to toss them into that page. Things like the department that took the call, did George dial 311 or a full number, what type of recording equipment was used?

If my transcription appears inaccurate, let's discuss it.

 

[Unabogie]

Another little lie from George:

Zimmerman: Um, then, dispatcher told me, ah, where are you? and I said I’m trying to find out where he went. And he said we don’t need you to do that. And I said OK. Ah, he said we already have a police officer en route. And I said alright, I, I had gone where, through the dog walk where I normally walk my dog, and walked back through to my street, the street that loops around. And he said we already have a police officer on
the way. So I said OK. I told, they said, would you like a police officer to meet you, and I said yes. And I told them where my car was and the make and the model.

He completely leaves out how he told them, "actually, can you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?" and told them NOT to meet him at his car, by the mailboxes?

Also, this one is just more BS:

Singleton: OK, what made them suspicious?
Zimmerman: This gentleman in particular? Um, I’d never seen him in the neighborhood. I know all the residents.

There's like 400 people who live there. That's just a sign of a true ********ter. People who embellish and make up little lies with everything they say. They can't just tell the story as it is, they have to make everything be AMAZING. He doesn't say he didn't know this kid. He says he knows all the residents in his whole complex, like he's a big shot who's a Community Leader. When he's not.

I've known ********ters before, and George is up there with the best.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Wow, that's dishonest beyond belief. I'm "really trying" because you asked me to so you could explain your CT about there really be two DeeDee's and you "understand that".
Remember?

Speaking of dishonest - How exactly is it my CT ?

And it was nice of you to provide my actual quote, so we can say that when you claim I said I "understand that" you can see what I actually said was:

I sort of understand it.

Tell you what - If you can supply me with a cogent explanation of why BDLR refused to allow the deposition of witness 8 to be videotaped, in what appears to be clear violation of the law, I'll see what I can do to help you understand the two DD theory. Deal ?

So I supplied you with two cogent reasons, one of which you even accepted as valid. So now I'm waiting for you to explain your wacky conspiracy theory and why it's not so wacky.

Again, how is it my theory ? Where did I claim it wasn't "wacky" (<- note: this is how you properly use quotation marks - when you are actually quoting what someone said)
You should re-read what I wrote.

And speaking of dishonesty:

I have never claimed that if events happened the way George claimed they did, that he would have a valid self-defense case. If a person jumped out of the bushes, pummeled him, slammed his head against concrete, and told him about his intention to murder him as he was going for his gun, that'd be self-defense.

I think he's lying. I don't believe him. I think he's at fault.

You realize it's dishonest to strip context from something someone said and pretend it supports your point, don't you?

I didn't claim you said any of the stuff above. I didn't strip out the context of what you wrote. I left it in context.

Please explain to me which other part of this post you wanted me to leave in so that the context was there ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

In fact, in his original version of the story, he does in fact claim he fell back north.

And yet the word north doesn't appear in that claim...

And you know it was north because there is no grass on the south side of the walk, only the north ?

Yep, he never describes moving 50 feet. He never explains how he got from one place to the other.

Probably because he was in the middle of a fight and not taking notes.

 

[Unabogie]

Speaking of dishonest - How exactly is it my CT ?
And it was nice of you to provide my actual quote, so we can say that when you claim I said I "understand that" you can see what I actually said was:

Go ahead and stop dodging. I held up my part of the deal. Your turn.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

However, that argument is never applied in favor of TM. He needed to wait for something bad to happen before reacting to the much older man that was following him in the dark, that confronted him and in all probability grabbed him. And of course, ultimately shot him.

I hilited the part you should provide evidence for.

And the difference is between already being under assault and waiting until something debilitating happens,

Versus

Assaulting someone as a preemptive strike

I think that is very possible that GZ will get away with murder, but murder it was.