Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Red, how many floors do you think were on fire in WTC7? Yes, I understand that I am asking you to speculate, but this is just for a paper napkin calculation.

There's no need to speculate, we can go to NIST. According to them, fires ignited (notice NIST does not say burned) on at least 10 floors (they don't specify how many more than 10). But only on floors 7-9 and 11-13 did the fires burn out of control, which as NIST says, was similar to other office bldg fires. So there was nothing extraordinary about this fire.

Now compare this with the Mandarin or Windsor fire and tell me how WTC 7 was the largest office fire in history.
 
I'va narrowed down the source of mackey's calculations to this thread.

Looking through it now.

EDIT: #&%$ it, I don't need to look anymore. Redibis already knows the post by Mackey I'm referring to:

Dare I say that your insistence (solely your own since you could not provide a report which called WTC 7 the largest office bldg fire in history) is an example of the Strong Delusion complete with the mined quote:
 
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There's no need to speculate, we can go to NIST. According to them, fires ignited (notice NIST does not say burned) on at least 10 floors (they don't specify how many more than 10). But only on floors 7-9 and 11-13 did the fires burn out of control, which as NIST says, was similar to other office bldg fires. So there was nothing extraordinary about this fire.

Now compare this with the Mandarin or Windsor fire and tell me how WTC 7 was the largest office fire in history.

So that is 6 floors that are fully involved. Each floor of WTC7 had about 4366 sqm of space. So, just those 6 floors cover 26,196 sqm. Compare that to Windsor Tower that had a total of 20,000 sqm for the entire building. Can you tell which is larger?

ETA Office area based off of wikipedia.
 
Red:

As I said, you have to start out with a definition of what constitutes the largest fire. Is it based on surface area? Is it based on # of floors involved? Certainly, the POOREST definition, would be the ESTIMATES made based on visual observations, made to reporters in the days that followed 9/11.

Start with a definition, then look at Mackey's work, and see if it is truthful and accurate.

TAM:)
 
There's no need to speculate, we can go to NIST. According to them, fires ignited (notice NIST does not say burned) [...]

Um...and what do you think "fires ignited" means versus "burned"?

You imply that something can "ignite" without "burning"...and you wonder why no one takes you seriously. :confused:
 
Lawrence Wilkerson, former Powell Chief of Staff, says 9/11 Commission Report probably got 60% wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRKFbLJDfl4&feature=player_embedded#!

Wilkerson said, over and over again, that the political persons in charge were incompetant in their positions and in that way and in that way only, culpable in the attacks.

Wilkerson would not agree with any of the conspiracy topics that the interviewer fed him. Case in point is the interviewer bringing up what C.Rice said about her having 54 FBI offices go on heightened alert for terrorist activity. Wilkerson points out that she cannot do that directly, that she can only tell someone who will tell someone else who will tell another person in the FBI to do something. He brings up the fact that the administration was massaging data to try to put a better light on how they had been reacting to AlQada threats when in fact Al Qada was far far down on their political agenda. Its called CYA (you are old enough to know what the acronym stands for), he recounts his disgust for the way the administration behaved, he also states that if he had any thought at any time that these people would have aranged for the attacks to be carried out he would have left the country long ago. It is all of this that constitutes the 60% of the truth that the 911 Commission did not have.

Your twisting of his words in saying that Wilkerson believes that the Commission was 60% wrong is quite telling in how you operate with 'the truth' bill. He actually said that the Commission, and similar commissions do not get to 60% of the whole truth. His whole point in the interview is that it is CYA of incompetance that makes up that 60%.

Wilkerson in NO WAY supports, and in no way does any of his interview, support the contentions that you have promoted in these forums, not MIHOP nor LIHOP.

Did you actually watch the whole interview? I did!

bill, I contend that in the interview you posted , Wilkerson says absolutly nothing that lends support to any 911 conspiracy theory or contention at all.

Can you tell us again what you heard in that interview in which Wilkerson is saying something that does. Do be specific please.

In answer to a question on the subject he said that theoretically speaking there should be a new 9/11 investigation. But that practically speaking they would just fix it and find themselves innocent.

I am not planning to go back and check the time stamp right now either. I can only suggest that people watch the interview for themselves.

Bill, I DID watch the interview. I watched the whole thing and yes he states that there was culpability born of incompetance by some very highly placed people in the administration and THAT is what he is speaking about when he says that any new investigation would run up against very powerful roadblocks.

NONE of this, not a lick, nada , zip, zilch, zero, nada, supports any 911 conspiracy theory at all. Nothing!!

So once again I ask you, the 911 conspiracy believer who posted the interview as somehow supporting your views: Where in this interview does he do that?

Well I am sure you will join me in heartily reccommending the interview to all debunkers and Truth people

Yes yes by all means. Its 29 minutes long please everyone watch it because bill refuses to discuss it with just lil ol me


ETA: here's the link again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRKFbLJDfl4&feature=player_embedded#

It strikes me that bill is more interested in what Paul Jay is saying than in what Wilkerson is.

Well, bill it looks like its just you and me on this one.

I have asked you several times now what you feel Wilkerson said in the interview that supports any 911 conspiracy whatsoever. So far all I get from you is stalling and obfuscation.

Wilkerson did not even actually call for an investigation of any sort that would be along the lines of any such that the 911 conspiracy believers would be interested in. He might as well have suggested an investigation on whether or not to install a 4 way stop sign at an intersection in D.C. as it would have as much relevence to any 911 conspiracy by persons in the US gov't or the Bush adminstration.

So once again with feeling this time.

Please bill, please explain exactly what Wilkerson said in the interview that in any way shape or means supports any contentions made by those who believe in a conspiracy to either cause the 911 attacks or allow them to go forth, deliberatly and with malice of forethought.
 
I'va narrowed down the source of mackey's calculations to this thread.

Looking through it now.

EDIT: #&%$ it, I don't need to look anymore. Redibis already knows the post by Mackey I'm referring to:

The source thread you want is this one: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106581

Said it before, and I'll say it again: These people are a waste of time.

You are basically trying to cure folks who are hallucinating, with words as your only tool, and you won't rest until they are sane. You've set the bar way too high.
 
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The source thread you want is this one: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106581

Said it before, and I'll say it again: These people are a waste of time.

You are basically trying to cure folks who are hallucinating, with words as your only tool, and you won't rest until they are sane. You've set the bar way too high.

hmmm, perhaps my education was not what it should be for such discussions. Perhaps I should have taken psychology.:D
 

The thread I referenced haevily quoted the post I was looking for, hence the confusion.

Said it before, and I'll say it again: These people are a waste of time.

It can be useful to build evidence that these people are habitual and pathological liars, like Redibis. I questioned the writ of his cults holy scripture on their holiest shrine, the Uncombusted WTC7. Red, much like the fanatical muslims who talk of killing cartoonists, predictably wigged out demanding proof, screaming that no one has ever said anything like this before.

Oh look! There you are, going back and forth over several pages with Redibis over the exact post I referred to. He knew what I was talking about, he had seen it before, instead he wanted to play childish games.

Neither Mackey, nor anyone else has ever provided evidence to support such hyperbole.

You knew otherwise, Red.
 
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Can you name a larger one?

Well this was a far more severe fire at the WTC on 9/11. The building was only eight storys tall and with light steel to match. Yet the fire far outdid anything seen in WTC7 which was a hulking brute of a building by comparison.

Guess what ?....this building- WTC5 - did not even collapse. In fact people were photographed standing on the roof maybe a month or so later examining the aircraft wreckage that was all neatly lined up there.(luckily the pristine paint job on the designer wreckage did not blister or discolour from the heat.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ
 
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Well, bill it looks like its just you and me on this one.

I have asked you several times now what you feel Wilkerson said in the interview that supports any 911 conspiracy whatsoever. So far all I get from you is stalling and obfuscation.

Wilkerson did not even actually call for an investigation of any sort that would be along the lines of any such that the 911 conspiracy believers would be interested in. He might as well have suggested an investigation on whether or not to install a 4 way stop sign at an intersection in D.C. as it would have as much relevence to any 911 conspiracy by persons in the US gov't or the Bush adminstration.

So once again with feeling this time.

Please bill, please explain exactly what Wilkerson said in the interview that in any way shape or means supports any contentions made by those who believe in a conspiracy to either cause the 911 attacks or allow them to go forth, deliberatly and with malice of forethought.

The malice aforethought doesn't matter at this time. We will easily prove that when the time comes. But first we need the investigation.. That's why I wrote the following..

'' In answer to a question on the subject he [Wilkerson] said that theoretically speaking there should be a new 9/11 investigation. But that practically speaking they would just fix it and find themselves innocent.

I am not planning to go back and check the time stamp right now either. I can only suggest that people watch the interview for themselves.
 
There's no need to speculate, we can go to NIST. According to them, fires ignited (notice NIST does not say burned) on at least 10 floors (they don't specify how many more than 10). But only on floors 7-9 and 11-13 did the fires burn out of control, which as NIST says, was similar to other office bldg fires. So there was nothing extraordinary about this fire.

Now compare this with the Mandarin or Windsor fire and tell me how WTC 7 was the largest office fire in history.

Why are you so concerned about this?

Are you willing to go out on a limb and actually make a claim about what happened on 9/11/2001?

No?

Didn't think so.

Goodbye.
 
The source thread you want is this one: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106581

Said it before, and I'll say it again: These people are a waste of time.

You are basically trying to cure folks who are hallucinating, with words as your only tool, and you won't rest until they are sane. You've set the bar way too high.

9 years of hallucinating, and they have perfected it. Spreading lies and exposing their ignorance. No goals based on rational evidence. Failed to gain the skills to understand 911 in 9 years; anti-education, anti-intellectual, pure nonsense personified, posting like a trained cult member - 911 truth - the only goal they have met, ... failure.
 
Guess what ?....this building- WTC5 - did not even collapse. In fact people were photographed standing on the roof maybe a month or so later examining the aircraft wreckage that was all neatly lined up there.(luckily the pristine paint job on the designer wreckage did not blister or discolour from the heat.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ

Hey Bill, how long would you think it would take for the paint to blister or discolour? 10 seconds? 1 minute? Give us your best estimate.
 
The source thread you want is this one: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106581

Said it before, and I'll say it again: These people are a waste of time.

You are basically trying to cure folks who are hallucinating, with words as your only tool, and you won't rest until they are sane. You've set the bar way too high.

yes and to think in the real world I have medicines and specialists to help me with insanity...here...only words.

TAM:D
 
Has anyone read this book?

Can anyone comment on this book?


The 5 unanswered questions about 9/11 : what the 9/11 Commission report failed to tell us
by James Ridgeway. c2005.​
 
Well this was a far more severe fire at the WTC on 9/11. The building was only eight storys tall and with light steel to match. Yet the fire far outdid anything seen in WTC7 which was a hulking brute of a building by comparison.

Guess what ?....this building- WTC5 - did not even collapse. In fact people were photographed standing on the roof maybe a month or so later examining the aircraft wreckage that was all neatly lined up there.(luckily the pristine paint job on the designer wreckage did not blister or discolour from the heat.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41OCQvu7ULQ

Well if WTC5 didn't collapse, then IT MUST HAVE BEEN AN INSIDE JOB!!!

TAM;)
 
Can anyone comment on this book?


The 5 unanswered questions about 9/11 : what the 9/11 Commission report failed to tell us
by James Ridgeway. c2005.​
It's not that interesting. Ultra-lightweight LIHOP, basically. He talks about many trutherish topics, so for example wondering why Donald Rumsfeld wasn't running off to the NMCC as soon as he heard about Flight 175, or saying the 9/11 Commission covered up 9/11 connections with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. But he doesn't actually claim there was any big US conspiracy behind the attacks, or that allowed them to happen, and instead thinks it's more a mix of failures of the system, negligence and so on.
 
Well if WTC5 didn't collapse, then IT MUST HAVE BEEN AN INSIDE JOB!!!

TAM;)

Don't tell her WTC 5 is not there any more.

Oops, don't let her look at the internal collapse; OOPS don't tell her they fought the fires! Gee, it would ruin her lies and delusion party, and set her apologizing for terrorists back years.

124474550e45019258.jpg

Fire caused floors to collapse. Oops, that ruins the fire can't make steel fail lie.
 
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