Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[johnny karate]

Please point me to your interviews with everyone who saw the collapse and what their stated beliefs are.

I've noticed how often you appropriate the non existence of information to be confirmation of your bias.

No one who witnessed the collapse of WTC7 has expressed a belief they thought it was a controlled demolition. This is a fact.

I have no idea how you would expect anyone to substantiate such a phenomenon.

 

[RedIbis]

No one who witnessed the collapse of WTC7 has expressed a belief they thought it was a controlled demolition. This is a fact.

I have no idea how you would expect me to substantiate such a phenomenon.

Because you can't substantiate it, you're merely making an assumption.

 

[johnny karate]

Because you can't substantiate it, you're merely making an assumption.

Do you expect me to quote testimony in which witnesses do not express the belief the collapse of WTC7 was a controlled demolition? Because that seems kind of silly.

You're asking me to prove a negative.

I'm pretty sure that's some kind of logical fallacy.

 

[bill smith]

997 architectural and engineering professionals
and 6153 other supporters including A&E students
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.​

I wonder who will be the 1,000th member ? I hope they have somebody special. Dr. Quintiere would do nicely. If it was me I would have been setting it up for months.

 

[RedIbis]

Do you expect me to quote testimony in which witnesses do not express the belief the collapse of WTC7 was a controlled demolition? Because that seems kind of silly.

You're asking me to prove a negative.

I'm pretty sure that's some kind of logical fallacy.

Just out of curiosity, why did you go from a discussion of the collapses at GZ in general, to WTC 7. Are you afraid that some who witnessed the collapses of the towers never revised their initial thought that it was a CD?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Just out of curiosity, why did you go from a discussion of the collapses at GZ in general, to WTC 7.

To point out to amazing clairvoyance of the TM who have the supernatural skills to see a building collapse and call it a CD from their desktop computers, that witnesses who were there first hand didn't have...

 

[Myriad]

I wonder who will be the 1,000th member ? I hope they have somebody special. Dr. Quintiere would do nicely. If it was me I would have been setting it up for months.

I think Chief Engineer Montgomery "Scotty" Scott would be perfect. Sure, he's fictional, but we know ae911t accepts fictional members. And he carries a lot of weight. Especially in the later movies.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[bill smith]

I think Chief Engineer Montgomery "Scotty" Scott would be perfect. Sure, he's fictional, but we know ae911t accepts fictional members. And he carries a lot of weight. Especially in the later movies.

Respectfully,
Myriad

I suppose the best thing is for you to list the fictional members. If you can't maybe we will just go with the list as it is.

Remember what Captain Kirk said.....'don't beam me up yet Scotty, I'm having a sh...........'

 

[johnny karate]

Just out of curiosity, why did you go from a discussion of the collapses at GZ in general, to WTC 7. Are you afraid that some who witnessed the collapses of the towers never revised their initial thought that it was a CD?

The issue of visual observation vs. aural observation was brought up. You made the point that the two experiences might be mutually exclusive; a person could hear a phenomenon, but not be able to see it, and therefore not accurately determine what it is.

In the case of WTC7, we have a linear relationship: visual observation vs. visual observation. Truthers determine WTC7 was a controlled demolition by watching a video of its collapse. No one who actually witnessed the collapse has made a similar determination.

However, this argument could be applied to any of the WTC building collapses, and I'm sure you'd still dodge it.

 

[bill smith]

To point out to amazing clairvoyance of the TM who have the supernatural skills to see a building collapse and call it a CD from their desktop computers, that witnesses who were there first hand didn't have...

It's totally obvious why some firemen and others held back from positively declaring a demolition on 9/11.

They had all seen the planes flyng into the buildings and naturally assumed that to be the cause. It would not have made sense to them for the buildings themselves also to be prewired for demolition as it later emerged. Seen in this context it is remarkable that the firemen in particular were so outspoken. They said everthing just short of saying that the buildings were deliberately demolished. Sheesh,

 

[RedIbis]

It's totally obvious why some firemen and others held back from positively declaring a demolition n 9/11.

They had all seen the planes flyng into the building and naturally assumed that to be the cause. It would not have made sense to them for the buildings themselves also to be prewired for demolition as it later emerged. Seen in this context it is remarkable that the firemen in particular were so outspoken. They said everthing just short of saying that the buildigs were deliberately demolished. Sheesh,

Indeed.

 

[Myriad]

I suppose the best thing is for you to list the fictional members. If you can't maybe we will just go with the list as it is.

I'm not willing to engage in outing the fictional members because I know they would then be subjected to discrimination by the organization. No one can help being born fictional. Fictional people contribute many great things to our society. And yet they are treated as if they have no rights at all. They can even be murdered without legal consequences!

Let ae911t continue to embrace and support its fictional members. Don't ask, and I won't tell. After all, who is better suited to provide fictional peer review to support fictional theories about a fictional conspiracy?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[RedIbis]

No one who actually witnessed the collapse has made a similar determination.

How do you know what they've determined?

 

[bill smith]

I'm not willing to engage in outing the fictional members because I know they would then be subjected to discrimination by the organization. No one can help being born fictional. Fictional people contribute many great things to our society. And yet they are treated as if they have no rights at all. They can even be murdered without legal consequences!

Let ae911t continue to embrace and support its fictional members. Don't ask, and I won't tell. After all, who is better suited to provide fictional peer review to support fictional theories about a fictional conspiracy?

Respectfully,
Myriad

I suppose the homes of the future for old broken-down debunkers will need a good supply of cartoon characters to keep their intellectual levels at par. Long live dafydd duck and Macky Moose.

 

[johnny karate]

Indeed.

bill smith has in the past explicity accused the FDNY of complicity, and is now implying either cowardice or stupidity on their part.

And you seem to be in agreement with him.

 

[johnny karate]

How do you know what they've determined?

I know what they've said. And more importantly, what they haven't said.

What reasoning do you offer for implying that thousands of people witnessed the very distinctive phenomena of the controlled demolitions of three enormous buildings and not one thought it might be worth mentioning?

 

[bill smith]

bill smith has in the past explicity accused the FDNY of complicity, and is now implying either cowardice or stupidity on their part.

And you seem to be in agreement with him.

I'm sorry you no longer carry my banner about that. I have not changed my mind one whit.

 

[funk de fino]

Please point me to your interviews with everyone who saw the collapse and what their stated beliefs are.

I've noticed how often you appropriate the non existence of information to be confirmation of your bias.

You do know NIST reinterviewed a lot of these people and looked at the statements again?

Why dont you try this game?

Quote:
TRINA KOONCE, Oklahoma City - It looks like a war zone.

Quote:
MATTHEW SPIEL, Joplin, Missouri - It looks like a war zone.

Quote:
MICHAEL SCHRADER, Nowata, Oklahoma - it sounds like gunshots. Very creepy.

Quote: Aunt A - ...except for gun-shot noises

What are they describing?

 

[tfk]

The obvious difference being that those who were at GZ and made these observations couldn't possibly have seen the source. Your analogy is ridiculous. You can't compare watching a vase fall off a table and the possible internal detonation of explosives.

Nice job missing the entire point.

If a witness believed (correctly or incorrectly) that they heard an explosion, they they are far more like to say "... then I heard an explosion".

If a witness is uncertain of the cause of the sound, or if they knew that it was something other than an explosion, then they are likely to say "... then it sounded like an explosion".

Tell ya what, Red. Why don't you provide YOUR explanation as to when people use the phrase "it was..." versus when they use the phrase "it was like ...".

And then we'll start tearing your analysis apart if it is based on any common-occurrence event. Except the seen-one-seen-em-all, every day "hijack & crash of jet liners and subsequent collapse of skyscrapers", of course...

And I can't even believe that I'm arguing this squishy, subjective, irrelevant nonsense. A perfect demonstration of how useless it is to discuss something with someone who is simply argumentative.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm sorry you no longer carry my banner about that. I have not changed my mind one whit.

Congratulations. It looks like you have now recruited RedIbis into your particular brand of paranoid delusion.