Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Myriad]

Myriad is it true that if you made the footprint of WTC1 equal to one square foot that the tower would be 21 feet tall ?

No.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by bill smith
Myriad is it true that if you made the footprint of WTC1 equal to one square foot that the tower would be 21 feet tall ?

Arithmetic much?

 

[Myriad]

Do you not think that a tall thin structure like that would fall over or bend over from asymmetric damage rather than collapse straight down on itself so that even the base of the building was completely destroyed by the falling rubble ? No alarm bells are jangling over there ?

A structure one foot square and 21 feet high might very well fall over and bend from asymmetric damage. If you can provide details concerning a structure of those dimensions that collapsed in some particular way you find unexpected, I'll take a look and let you know if any alarm bells jangle. (I suppose if you put the alarm bells on the structure, they would be likely to jangle during the collapse.)

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[beachnut]

Myriad is it true that if you made the footprint of WTC1 equal to one square foot that the tower would be 21 feet tall ?

Do you not think that a tall thin structure like that would fall over or bend over from asymmetric damage rather than collapse straight down on itself so that even the base of the building was completely destroyed by the falling rubble ? No alarm bells are jangling over there ?

You should have majored in engineering instead of gossip.

new math by truther skews world

 

[R.Mackey]

For what it's worth, an L/D of 21 is not a particularly slender column.

However, I do know for a fact that the World Trade Center was not 1.3 kilometers high.

 

[Toke]

Bill,
You have still not figured out how fragile big structures are compared to small ones.

 

[bill smith]

A structure one foot square and 21 feet high might very well fall over and bend from asymmetric damage. If you can provide details concerning a structure of those dimensions that collapsed in some particular way you find unexpected, I'll take a look and let you know if any alarm bells jangle. (I suppose if you put the alarm bells on the structure, they would be likely to jangle during the collapse.)

Respectfully,
Myriad

But you think that a structure of 6' 6'' on a one square foot base might very well collapse straight down ?

 

[bill smith]

You should have majored in engineering instead of gossip.

[qimg]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/bsWTCfailedmath.jpg[/qimg]
new math by truther skews world

lol

 

[bill smith]

Throbbng with suspicion. lol

 

[Myriad]

But you think that a structure of 6' 6'' on a one square foot base might very well collapse straight down ?

That would be very unlikely, hence the difficulty of making a small scale physical model that demonstrates the same type of collapse as the wtc towers did. The behavior changes with scale.

That's (in large part) because when scaling, the moment of inertia of the structure (or any given scaled portion of it) increases as the fifth power of the linear size, while the torque forces acting on it only increase as the fourth power.

The square-cubed law relating strength and weight to linear scale also figure prominently.

Perhaps you are beginning to realize that there is no seat at the table for anyone to discuss or debate the wtc collapse dynamics with structural engineers (for instance your fantasized meeting between NIST and "truth movement leaders"), who fails to grasp (or continues to disregard) these basic consequences of the laws of physics.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[bill smith]

That would be very unlikely, hence the difficulty of making a small scale physical model that demonstrates the same type of collapse as the wtc towers did. The behavior changes with scale.

That's (in large part) because when scaling, the moment of inertia of the structure (or any given scaled portion of it) increases as the fifth power of the linear size, while the torque forces acting on it only increase as the fourth power.

The square-cubed law relating strength and weight to linear scale also figure prominently.

Perhaps you are beginning to realize that there is no seat at the table for anyone to discuss or debate the wtc collapse dynamics with structural engineers (for instance your fantasized meeting between NIST and "truth movement leaders"), who fails to grasp (or continues to disregard) these basic consequences of the laws of physics.

Respectfully,
Myriad

My only object is to help engineer the situation where our experts will be able to challenge your experts in some public forum. This is to make all Amercans in every nook and cranny aware of the possibilities of a conspiracy. Also to get the conversation raging in all forms of the mainstream media. Together we will find out what is what and who did what,

I was curious about your answer on the model because I was just thinking that Richard Gage should make a model of a Tower 6.5 feet tall and on a one square foot base. Using lego blocks glued together in one or two foot sections. This could be caried in a smallish bag and used in multiple media appearances. Just think- he could have different modules made for the crash zone(s) showing how many columns were left intact after the crash for instance or the stripped configuration of core columns.
Lots of stuff could be demonstrated.

It could be made very realistic by gluing on scaled photos of the exterior and maybe adding an antenna.

The eye buys they say. If anyone encounters Richard Gage pass on this message please.

 

[Pardalis]

My only object is to help engineer the situation where our experts will be able to challenge your experts in some public forum.

But are your "engineesr" truly interested? 8 years and they haven't shown any indication that they are genuinely interested in actively forwarding their theories and papers through the proper channels.

It's not that the scientific community doesn't want to hear them, it the truthers themselves who know they are full of crap and deliberately avoid the confrontation with their peers because they know they're going to have their ass handed to them.

The job of denialists is not to prove their theories, but to cast enough doubt in the general layman population in order to advance their political agenda. Truthers don't really want another investigation, they just want the population to feel like 9/11 hasn't been answered and needs another investigation.

 

[tuc0]

It could be made very realistic by gluing on scaled photos of the exterior and maybe adding an antenna.

You jumped the shark again. You must try to be less obvious.

 

[Myriad]

I was curious about your answer on the model because I was just thinking that Richard Gage should make a model of a Tower 6.5 feet tall and on a one square foot base. Using lego blocks glued together in one ir two foot sections...

It could be made very realistic by gluing on scaled photos of the exterior and maybe adding an antenna.

The eye buys they say. If anyone encounters Richard Gage pass on this message please.

Okay, so you apparently want a model to fool people into believing falsehoods, by ignoring the relevant scaling issues.

There's nothing to stop you or Gage from doing that, but no seat at the table. Sorry.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[bill smith]

Okay, so you apparently want a model to fool people into believing falsehoods, by ignoring the relevant scaling issues.

There's nothing to stop you or Gage from doing that, but no seat at the table. Sorry.

Respectfully,
Myriad

We wouldn't be suggestng that the lego model itself would fall down. It would just be to give people n idea of the height of the Tower related to the base and have them picture the unliklihod of a straight down collapse, and the modules and so on. People re not stupid. They know enough about structures to recognise a crock when they see one.

 

[Myriad]

We wouldn't be suggestng that the lego model itself would fall down. It would just be to give people n idea of the height of the Tower related to the base and have them picture the unliklihod of a straight down collapse, and the modules and so on. People re not stupid. They know enough about structures to recognise a crock when they see one.

That does sound like a great way to reach all those people out there who haven't already seen actual photographs of the actual towers. After all, one hardly ever sees such photos in the mainstream media. (And one must wonder, why? What are they hiding?)

I highly endorse this idea. I think it's a very good way for Truthers to spend their time and resources. Get to it!

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by bill smith
We wouldn't be suggestng that the lego model itself would fall down. It would just be to give people n idea of the height of the Tower related to the base and have them picture the unliklihod of a straight down collapse, and the modules and so on. People re not stupid. They know enough about structures to recognise a crock when they see one.

Bill, there was no big hand (or any other force) pushing the towers to the side.

"Down" was the only force in operation on 9/11.

Why a Lego model? Hundreds of thousands or people were eyewitnesses to the fires and collapse of the towers. None of them think there is anything unusual about how the towers collapsed.

None.

 

[bill smith]

That does sound like a great way to reach all those people out there who haven't already seen actual photographs of the actual towers. After all, one hardly ever sees such photos in the mainstream media. (And one must wonder, why? What are they hiding?)

I highly endorse this idea. I think it's a very good way for Truthers to spend their time and resources. Get to it!

Respectfully,
Myriad

This could be very important in the next while. Media apperances and presentations will probably proliferate.The model is a perfect height for the cameras with the crash zone being at around eye level in WTC1. How much would it cost ? There would be change from 1.000 dollars I reckon.

 

[bill smith]

Bill, there was no big hand (or any other force) pushing the towers to the side.

"Down" was the only force in operation on 9/11.

Why a Lego model? Hundreds of thousands or people were eyewitnesses to the fires and collapse of the towers. None of them think there is anything unusual about how the towers collapsed.

None.

Most of hem,including many engineers and architects just took the government spiel aand the media brainwashing at face value. They can't be blamed for that. But now we will present to them the alternative view and it is utterly compelling. Mpre than enough to force a new investigation with real teeth.

 

[BigAl]

Most of hem,including many engineers and architects just took the government spiel aand the media brainwashing at face value. They can't be blamed for that. But now we will present to them the alternative view and it is utterly compelling. Mpre thn enough to force a new investigation with real teeth.

None of the eyewitnesses saw anything strange about how the towers collapsed. None of the people involved with the cleanup, an estimates 7,000 construction workers and steel workers saw anything strange about the pile.

To this day, no eyewitness has signed on to the silly claims you parrot.