Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Let's see now...



Hmmmm...is that correct? Let's see...



Let's dissect that just a little shall we...




Now then, where the quote is presented is irrelevant, whether it's a 9/11 conspiracy site or at a talk in front of an audience or in a newspaper, the quote remains the same. So lets remove that irrelevant part...



Now does one really need to say "presentation"? What does Dave mean by presentation of this quote? It is the same as saying quoting this text is it not? This is the same as saying that...



Is the presentation part really important in the argument? Presenting the quote is quoting the quote.

Now if you are going to try and come back with an "Now your just playing semantics" and try and claim that the act of "presenting" is the straw man argument...which seems to be where everyone is leading, then you should realize that that falls on it's face as any and every argument must be presented. What you present is the argument (or in this case the "straw man" argument).

Of course if Dave meant to imply that it was simply the presentation itself that was a straw man argument then maybe he doesn't know what a straw man argument really is!

Which is it Dave? Do you know what a straw man argument is or were you lying?

seriously Steve, at least try and have something to say about 9/11 CTs. Simply pointing ou twhat you perceive to be errors or tactics in someones discussion style is not in keeping with the theme of the subforum, even in the general discussion thread.

TAM:)
 
And if you keep resorting to infantile verbal tricks, you will certainly convince people with critical thinking skills that you are a fraud who has been exposed.

The claim is that "truthers" are fact-free liars who have never produced a shred of evidence that can stand scrutiny. To refute it, you have only to show a single piece of credible evidence for the insane myths you cling to.

C'mon, give it a try.

LOL, if too many more debunkers take up this line of "arguments" I will have to change the name of "the beachnut mantra" to the "the debunker mantra"
 
Maybe there should be a "Debating Debating" thread in which Steve and his several opponents can iron how to specifically ask and answer questions.

Then, after a few months or so, a question can be presented to Steve that would be worded properly, and we could finally get to the meat of the matter.
 
Now does one really need to say "presentation"? What does Dave mean by presentation of this quote? It is the same as saying quoting this text is it not? This is the same as saying that...

No, that isn't totally correct. While 'presentation' can mean the substantive fact of presenting it can also refer to the manner,style or quality of presenting.

"Although the cooking itself was sublime, the chef's presentation of the meal exemplified why the restaurant lacks any Michelin stars". Clearly it would be absurd to suppose that the chef might earn Michelin stars if s/he stopped actually giving the food to the customers.
 
Last edited:
LOL, if too many more debunkers take up this line of "arguments" I will have to change the name of "the beachnut mantra" to the "the debunker mantra"
Don't do that I will loose the rights. You are easily distracted from presenting the truth on 911. I know it is hard to do with out evidence. And being totally free of evidence like you are on 911 issues is bad news if you wish to prove your points. You could tell us your points about 911 without evidence instead of stalling and talking about debating tactics. Believe me your delusions are self-debunking so if I tell you your ideas are dumber than dirt you don't have to debate my lack of prose, you need to roll out your evidence bank and prove me wrong.

Got evidence? Don't bring your failed opinions, bring facts and evidence.
 
LOL, if too many more debunkers take up this line of "arguments" I will have to change the name of "the beachnut mantra" to the "the debunker mantra"


Notice that you're reduced to hysterical giggling. You are NOT producing that elusive single piece of evidence that would encourage sane people to take your tiny, insane movement seriously. Like all other "truthers," you never will produce a single piece of evidence for your delusions. You can't: you have none.

As a suggestion, you are engaging debunkers who know exactly how to expose your falsehoods. There's no satisfaction in store for you along this route.
 
Let's see now...



Hmmmm...is that correct? Let's see...



Let's dissect that just a little shall we...




Now then, where the quote is presented is irrelevant, whether it's a 9/11 conspiracy site or at a talk in front of an audience or in a newspaper, the quote remains the same. So lets remove that irrelevant part...



Now does one really need to say "presentation"? What does Dave mean by presentation of this quote? It is the same as saying quoting this text is it not? This is the same as saying that...



Is the presentation part really important in the argument? Presenting the quote is quoting the quote.

Now if you are going to try and come back with an "Now your just playing semantics" and try and claim that the act of "presenting" is the straw man argument...which seems to be where everyone is leading, then you should realize that that falls on it's face as any and every argument must be presented. What you present is the argument (or in this case the "straw man" argument).

Of course if Dave meant to imply that it was simply the presentation itself that was a straw man argument then maybe he doesn't know what a straw man argument really is!

Which is it Dave? Do you know what a straw man argument is or were you lying?


Speaking of dissections, I did just that with the disingenuous quote posted by the fact-free Bill Smith (post #63). Evidently you missed my comments. I'm eager to give you another crack at them, so...

It is fascinating that you so often thrust yourself into discussions about the nature of critical thinking and logic. You are conspicuously devoid of critical thinking skills, and logic remains terra incognita to you. Let's take a look at the post from Bill Smith:

"I believe this gem from Mike Rivero absolutely. Who wants to deny this Truth."

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

The first clause of the opening sentence is false. Most people in the U.S. actively distrust politicians, regarding them as mediocre individuals highly susceptible to corrupting influences. The cult that has sprung up around Barack Obama reflects the attitudes of a celebrity-crazed minority. The second clause illustrates perfectly what Dave Rogers is getting at. In order to acknowledge that a politician is lying, there must first be statements that qualify as lies.

The misnamed "truth" movement restricts itself entirely to baseless accusations of lying, without ever showing that any lies were actually told. We are asked to believe that a gigantic conspiracy that never leaks anything perpetrated a monstrous crime for no discernible motives. We are asked to pretend, against reason and sanity, that avowed enemies of America and the West simply do not exist. We are asked to swallow the preposterously improbable notion that all the thousands of people whose accounts of the events of 9/11 are consistent with the conclusion that Islamist terrorists hijacked planes are being magically controlled by unseen forces. Similarly, we are asked, on the basis of precisely nothing, to regard the researchers whose work provides a scientifically sound explanation for the collapses of the buildings as complicit in a mass murder.

What you frauds always neglect to do is provide any remotely plausible rationale for your posturing. You are the ones who refuse to think at all. You dismiss hard work done by serious scientists and engineers with a mindless sneer. You lack the intelligence to understand why your cherished myths are nonsense, and you refuse to make any effort to learn. You are easily manipulated by conscienceless scoundrels peddling worthless drivel. You exhibit the classic mob mentality. The statement that the Islamist attack on America was a "psyop" is sheer madness, the ravings of a fact-free lunatic. Nothing supports it; everything refutes it.

It is an example of pop psychology at its worst to blather about reactions to propaganda without showing any examples of actual propaganda. The dishonest "truth" movement churns out much propaganda. Nobody can credibly say as much about the sane side.
 
Don't do that I will loose the rights. You are easily distracted from presenting the truth on 911. I know it is hard to do with out evidence. And being totally free of evidence like you are on 911 issues is bad news if you wish to prove your points. You could tell us your points about 911 without evidence instead of stalling and talking about debating tactics. Believe me your delusions are self-debunking so if I tell you your ideas are dumber than dirt you don't have to debate my lack of prose, you need to roll out your evidence bank and prove me wrong.

Got evidence? Don't bring your failed opinions, bring facts and evidence.

Everytime i ask one of the 911 cult members for evidence all i get is yet another lame youtube video with the same old obvious propoganda tactics of over dramatic narration, quickly flashed collages of unrelated doom and gloom images, emotional background music and peppered with clips of hitler and nazis.
 
Last edited:
Everytime i ask one of the 911 cult members for evidence all i get is yet another lame youtube video with the same old obvious propoganda tactics of over dramatic narration, quickly flashed collages of unrelated doom and gloom images, emotional background music and peppered with clips of hitler and nazis.

I would say that to be given even that from them makes you very fortunate. Lucky you:D
 
I would say that to be given even that from them makes you very fortunate. Lucky you:D

lol... good one.

I should have said, that is when i do get something from the 911 minions.

Most often all i get is called a shill, a paid disinfo agent, brainwashed by the zionist controlled gov't and media, mixed in with a bunch of arrogant claims of superiority, attempts of reverse psychology, blah blah blah, rant rant rant, etc etc...
 
lol... good one.

I should have said, that is when i do get something from the 911 minions.

Most often all i get is called a shill, a paid disinfo agent, brainwashed by the zionist controlled gov't and media, mixed in with a bunch of arrogant claims of superiority, attempts of reverse psychology, blah blah blah, rant rant rant, etc etc...

Dont expect any great leap here then.
 
lol... good one.

I should have said, that is when i do get something from the 911 minions.

Most often all i get is called a shill, a paid disinfo agent, brainwashed by the zionist controlled gov't and media, mixed in with a bunch of arrogant claims of superiority, attempts of reverse psychology, blah blah blah, rant rant rant, etc etc...

I love when an Alex Jones-controlled drone calls me a shill or a sheeple.

The irony tastes like chocolate.
 
Speaking of dissections, I did just that with the disingenuous quote posted by the fact-free Bill Smith (post #63). Evidently you missed my comments. I'm eager to give you another crack at them, so...

Seems you have repeatedly missed my comments...

It is fascinating that you so often thrust yourself into discussions about the nature of critical thinking and logic. You are conspicuously devoid of critical thinking skills, and logic remains terra incognita to you. Let's take a look at the post from Bill Smith:

38 Become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand.
In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character.
This is a very popular technique, because it takes so little skill to put it into effect.

"Put on the right face. Cultivate a condescending air that suggests that your personal opinions are backed by the full faith and credit of God. Employ vague, subjective, dismissive terms such as "ridiculous" or "trivial" in a manner that suggests they have the full force of scientific authority."

Hmmm you got off to a great start

"I believe this gem from Mike Rivero absolutely. Who wants to deny this Truth."

"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

The first clause of the opening sentence is false. Most people in the U.S. actively distrust politicians, regarding them as mediocre individuals highly susceptible to corrupting influences.

There we go once again, ignoring everything I have said a few times already, but let's think about this again for a second before I repeat what I said before. ALL JREF'ers are constantly going on and on and on how there are very very few "truthers" because 99.9% of the people believe the government.

So are you saying that is not true? I mean which is it? Do they trust the government or not? What's that? They do trust the government when it comes to 9/11? Or no they don't? Is it that they do not trust the government when it comes to the little things because those are easy to be mad about since doing nothing about really isn't that bad, but they say they trust their government when it comes to war and death because to voice opposition then does put you in danger.

Amazing how all JREF'ers here want so much to always strip down a complex issue to something very very simple. It is not simple. I've mentioned "double think" a number of times already, this form of thinking was not invented in George Orwells 1984 he only used it.

The cult that has sprung up around Barack Obama reflects the attitudes of a celebrity-crazed minority. The second clause illustrates perfectly what Dave Rogers is getting at. In order to acknowledge that a politician is lying, there must first be statements that qualify as lies.

Smoke and mirrors bud, your catchphrase "In order to acknowledge that a politician is lying, there must first be statements that qualify as lies." but it is only a catchphrase meant to hypnotize the unthinking into believing there have been no lies. The whole concept of someone lying by definition means there was a statement that qualified as a lie, but it is a nice catchphrase that will undoubtedly convince some here.

The misnamed "truth" movement

38 Become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand.

Sigh...the favorite of the JREF'ers

restricts itself entirely to baseless accusations of lying, without ever showing that any lies were actually told. We are asked to believe that a gigantic conspiracy that never leaks anything perpetrated a monstrous crime for no discernible motives. We are asked to pretend, against reason and sanity, that avowed enemies of America and the West simply do not exist. We are asked to swallow the preposterously improbable notion that all the thousands of people whose accounts of the events of 9/11 are consistent with the conclusion that Islamist terrorists hijacked planes are being magically controlled by unseen forces. Similarly, we are asked, on the basis of precisely nothing, to regard the researchers whose work provides a scientifically sound explanation for the collapses of the buildings as complicit in a mass murder.

WOW, now that paragraph has way too many disinformation tactics it would take too much to list them all out, but the entire paragraph could be called overall "smoke and mirrors"

What you frauds always neglect to do is provide any remotely plausible rationale for your posturing. You are the ones who refuse to think at all. You dismiss hard work done by serious scientists and engineers with a mindless sneer. You lack the intelligence to understand why your cherished myths are nonsense, and you refuse to make any effort to learn. You are easily manipulated by conscienceless scoundrels peddling worthless drivel. You exhibit the classic mob mentality. The statement that the Islamist attack on America was a "psyop" is sheer madness, the ravings of a fact-free lunatic. Nothing supports it; everything refutes it.

This paragraph exactly like the previous paragraph

It is an example of pop psychology at its worst to blather about reactions to propaganda without showing any examples of actual propaganda. The dishonest "truth" movement churns out much propaganda. Nobody can credibly say as much about the sane side.

LOL, yes seems your last 3 paragraphs were all identical in style and tactic, too bad you didnt actually say anything. All you did was smear, insult, insinuate and lie.
 
Everytime i ask one of the 911 cult members for evidence all i get is yet another lame youtube video with the same old obvious propoganda tactics of over dramatic narration, quickly flashed collages of unrelated doom and gloom images, emotional background music and peppered with clips of hitler and nazis.
If they had evidence they would not be 911TruthLies cult members posting moronic ideas based on lies.
 
Steve;

As much as you have been relatively civil, your refusal to actually discuss the issues, and instead get caught up in a childish display of argument tactics and somantics, has forced me to add you to ignore.

Folks, if at some point Mr. Austin stops his "arguing 101" ********, let me know, and I will take him off ignore...thanks.

TAM:)
 
Steve;

As much as you have been relatively civil, your refusal to actually discuss the issues, and instead get caught up in a childish display of argument tactics and somantics, has forced me to add you to ignore.

Folks, if at some point Mr. Austin stops his "arguing 101" ********, let me know, and I will take him off ignore...thanks.

TAM:)

I will, but after looking at his posting history I'm not sure if it's even worth taking him off ignore.

Hint: You're seeing it as such now. It's kinda like ultima with a vocabulary.
 
There we go once again, ignoring everything I have said a few times already, but let's think about this again for a second before I repeat what I said before. ALL JREF'ers are constantly going on and on and on how there are very very few "truthers" because 99.9% of the people believe the government.

No, the vast majority of rational people believe that it's the convergence of evidence that renders virtually every insinuation of inside jobby job a fantasy. The bolded portion is a rather nice strawman. Rational people look at every aspect of the events, be they engineering, aviation, politics, reading comprehension, architecture, name it... and the collective indicates no such criminal complicity that the truth movement as a whole would like to push for.

So are you saying that is not true?
There's little "truth" in misrepresenting your opponents position. You, who have a nit pick for argumentative style one would think should know this if you're that well versed in argumentative tactics.

I mean which is it? Do they trust the government or not?
False Dilemma
The proper question to ask is whether the evidence available points to government complicity or not. Judging by your attitude I suspect you haven't spent much time outside of this turtle shell of a sub-forum, or followed the political affinities of those living internationally posting on this forum. Otherwise you'd have been aware of the attitude that a large percentage of the active members of this forum held toward Bush and his presidency.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom