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Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Hey TL? Would a veteran firefighter consider bringing his fellow heroes into a dangerous situation? Did this veteran not consider that there might be fire above him? Did he not consider that something might collapse? Why not?


Yes, Firemen train on the risks of collapse in fire in steel structures. They have for decades. Firemen run into burning buildings while you and I are running out.

Read and learn.



NIOSH Publication No. 2005-132:

Preventing Injuries and Deaths of Fire Fighters Due to Truss System Failures


All-steel trusses present their own hazards when exposed to fire. The mass and surface area of steel truss components are factors that determine time to failure. A heavy, thick section of steel has greater resistance to fire than a lightweight section of the same length because of the increased mass. A large, solid steel truss can absorb heat and take longer to reach its failure temperature, whereas a lightweight steel truss such as an open-web bar joist will be heated to its failure temperature much faster.

Once the failure temperature is reached, heavy steel trusses and lightweight metal trusses will react to the fire and fail in a similar manner. A steel member fails at the internal temperature of the steel and not at the ambient air temperature. This temperature is often referred to as the critical temperature of the steel member.

Findings reported by the National Engineered Lightweight Construction Fire Research Project indicate that unprotected lightweight steel C-joists fail within 4 to 6 minutes of exposure to fire [Grundahl 1992]. Testing conducted by the U.S. Bureau of Standards (now known as the National Institute of Standards and Technology, or NIST) showed that unprotected steel open-web bar joists reached 1,200: F in 6 to 8 minutes [Brannigan 1999]. Table D-1 illustrates that steel retains only 25% of its original strength at 1,200: F and retains only half its original strength at approximately 900 :F. Building design calculations are based on original strength at normal temperatures. At elevated temperatures, steel may retain no excess strength.

...steel loses strength when exposed to temperatures commonly found in structural fires. Steel has a high thermal conductivity, which means it can transfer heat away from a localized source and act as a heat sink. As long as the flame impingement is localized, the steel can transfer heat to other regions of the member-and thus the time to reach the critical temperature is delayed. If an intense fire is evenly distributed along the steel member, the critical temperature may be reached very quickly. Steel also has a high coefficient of expansion that results in the expansion of steel members as they are heated. As an example, a 50-foot-long steel beam heated uniformly over its length from 720 to 9720 F will expand in length by 3.9 inches. The same beam uniformly heated to 8000 F would expand by 3.2 inches; if heated to 1,2000 F, the beam would expand by 4.9 inches [Grundahl 1991; Cotes 1997].
 
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The Ex-Head of the French Secret Service says that Al-Quaeda has been dead since 2002. [...] ( The French secret service guy is using diplomatic language to say that Al-Quaeda does not exist at all in case some of you did not understand that )
Not quite.
He's saying that Al-Qaida died between 2002 and 2004 after the operations in the mountains of Tora Bora, but not before it has spawned its ideology in other groups all over the world. He's also saying that the oversimplifying media are largely responsible for the confusion on the fate of Al-Qaida.
 
Hey TL? Would a veteran firefighter consider bringing his fellow heroes into a dangerous situation? Did this veteran not consider that there might be fire above him? Did he not consider that something might collapse? Why not?

So then you are just arguing from ignorance and incredulity again right?

Firefighters actually run INTO burning buildings and dangerous situations. That is what they do. They risk their lives to save others. I know you don't understand that.

So do they issue firefighters XRAY Goggles? Yes or no? How would Chief Palmer know what the fires 2 floors above him were? Would he know? Yes or no?
 
Holy hell in a hand basket. Go offline for a day or less and we get a troll of all trolls like Pooksta (or what ever his name was). How many threads did he start on topics well covered out of sheer laziness to search, or purposeful trolling?

Suspended quick enough. I smell a banning in the near future.

TAM:)
 
Jeeez guys the media are tumbling over each other to get it out now. Are you keeping them passports up to date ?

Prof. Kevin Howley Notes "Changing Journalistic Attitudes" Toward 9/11 Questions

March 8, 2010, Greencastle, Ind. — "If the Tea Party movement is the spoiled stepchild of the American news media, then the 9/11 Truth movement is the mad woman in the attic of U.S. journalistic culture," according to Kevin Howley, associate professor of communication at DePauw University. His Bloomington Alternative column examines a new study out of Canada which suggests that "news reports that bring up troubling questions about the official story surrounding the events of Sept. 11, 2001, are gaining traction in the international press."

The professor notes, "Significantly, these news narratives no longer frame the 9/11 Truth movement as so much conspiracy theory. Rather, independent, commercial and public service news organizations the world over are giving serious consideration to allegations that challenge the veracity of the official story that emerged in the days and weeks following the 9/11 attacks."

According to Dr. Howley, "One story in particular seems to have created an opening for subsequent reports that challenge the official story: the April 2009 publication of a peer-reviewed study appearing in Open Chemical Physics Journal. The journal article presents the findings of an examination of dust from the site of the World Trade Center. The dust sample revealed traces of nano-thermite, a highly explosive substance that has been linked to classified military research." That work led to coverage by several mainstream news organizations, Howley reports...''

Read more..
http://www.depauw.edu/news/?id=24962
 
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The patriotic 9/11 debunkers will tell you that Chief Palmer didn't know his job and didn't know what he was talking about. Just like the first responders where it was their own fault they got lung disease because they weren't wearing their paper masks. Just like the Jersey Girls are just bitter because they want a little truth about the death of their loved ones. Just like everyone who saw flashes and heard explosions were taken out of context. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

51464b957090ef906.jpg
 
Jeeez guys the media are tumbling over each other to get it out now. Are you keeping them passports up to date ?

Prof. Kevin Howley Notes "Changing Journalistic Attitudes" Toward 9/11 Questions

According to Dr. Howley, "One story in particular seems to have created an opening for subsequent reports that challenge the official story: the April 2009 publication of a peer-reviewed study appearing in Open Chemical Physics Journal.

Read more..
http://www.depauw.edu/news/?id=24962

Another failed dolt who thinks the Open Chemical Physics Journal is credible. What an idiot. Jones paid to publish their failed research paper.

Good Job bill identifying idiot ideas from a anti-science professor. What is his expertise,
Kevin Howley is associate professor of media studies at DePauw University. He is editor of Understanding Community Media (Sage, 2010). He writes regularly on media, culture and politics at e-chreia.
He is a failed journalist who does not understand science. He sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theorist who is gullible.

It take knowledge to see Kevin is an idiot on 911 issues; he could have exposed Jones as a fraud but he is like you, ignorant on the subjects required to make rational conclusions on 911. You both failed, your education has failed you. Should have taken physics.

Kevin Howley is associate professor of media studies at DePauw University
Did you tell the University they have a professor (associate) that is lacking skills in logic and rational thinking?
 
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lol...what does that mean bill? You'll let him keep his moustache before your crowd hangs him in the gallows?

TAM:)
 
What are the main websites about 9/11 truth, besides AE911, LC911, or 911blogger?
What are the best arguments to counter such an idiotic claim like "the 9/11 truth movement is gaining momentum, nah nee nah noo nah"? Graphics from alexa.com don't seem to help...
 
A little truther birdie told me that TODAY is 9/11 truth ACTION day.

SO has anyone seen the results of this call to action?

TAM:)
 
No-one want to see that lying sack of crap Ian Henshall on TV.

What about this one Funk ? Do you think that there is a degree of orchestration going on with all the recent releases or do do think that the OCT has finally fallen apart ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yaxk5XQpR0

Wow ''The View'' gave the entire audience a free copy of Jessie's new book. What's going on ?
 
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Not quite.
He's saying that Al-Qaida died between 2002 and 2004 after the operations in the mountains of Tora Bora, but not before it has spawned its ideology in other groups all over the world. He's also saying that the oversimplifying media are largely responsible for the confusion on the fate of Al-Qaida.

Nah...according to MSNBC Al-Quaeda was a virtually Soviet-Union sized threat even before 9/11. The detailed plan to attack them on a world scale was already written up and ready for signing days BEFORE 9/11. Operations in 60 countries were envisioned.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4587368/ MSNBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTgpsAs4_c&feature=related


** If links do not work cut and paste them into another browser and load from there **
 
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Now that 9/11 has gone or is on the verge of going fully mainstream it is too late for the government to start picking up so-called '9/11 conspiracy theoroists'. That would just confirm that we nave been right right all along and expose the Amercan Government to the World.

Interesting isn't it ?
 
Now that 9/11 has gone or is on the verge of going fully mainstream it is too late for the government to start picking up so-called '9/11 conspiracy theoroists'. That would just confirm that we nave been right right all along and expose the Amercan Government to the World.

Interesting isn't it ?

I know this isn't a response to your post but, I had to relay my condolences to how things went for your cause in New Hampshire. Better luck next year. :rolleyes:
 
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