Consciousness.....a basic rule of physics

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ok fair enough. Now the proof that you are wrong: Because there are infinitely many ways of performing 2). But sense you stated by number 3) that any would do. Then if I start to associate:
N<-->R
1<-->1
2<-->2
i.e. n<-->n
Then the number “e”ЄR has no associated element in N, therefore it is not bijection. And because we where forced to go wrong, your statement is WRONG!

GAME OVER!

For any distinct element of N we can find a distinct element of R, if Distinction is a first-order property of N and R (exactly as I show in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4183449&postcount=316 ).

The order of R members (or any other set of distinct members, that are mapped with N members) has no significance, where two collections of distinct elements are mapped with each other (infinitely many orders do not change the fact that there is always a map between any (distinct) N member and any (distinct) R member.

EDIT: From this point of view (where Distinction is a first-order property) Cantor's diagonal argument does not hold.
 
Last edited:
For any distinct element of N we can find a distinct element of R, if Distinction is a first-order property of N and R (exactly as I show in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4183449&postcount=316 ).

The order of R members (or any other set of distinct members, that are mapped with N members) has no significance, where two collections of distinct elements are mapped with each other (infinitely many orders do not change the fact that there is always a map between any (distinct) N member and any (distinct) R member.

Which doesn't adds anything at all. You are still wrong.
 
Which doesn't adds anything at all. You are still wrong.

Not if you use Distinction as a first-order property.

Axioms come BEFORE any sort of element or relation. THEY DEFINE ELEMENTS AND RELATIONS!
No.

Only a particular meaning of Relation and a particular meaning of Element is given by an axiom for a particular branch, and the meaning is given by the mathematician's cognition.

EDIT: The mathematician's cognition is the "trunk" of these "branches".

You do not get the pre-axiomatic state of MAF as written in http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf .
 
Last edited:
Only a particular meaning of Relation and a particular meaning of Element is given by an axiom for a particular branch, and the meaning is given by the mathematician's cognition.

You do not get the pre-axiomatic state of MAF as written in http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf .
You repeating again everything I have already beaten to death. You are a crank, GET IT TROGH YOUR HEAD!
 
You repeating again everything I have already beaten to death. You are a crank, GET IT TROGH YOUR HEAD!
You cannot "kill" reasoning that you don't understand.

The best that you can do is to say "You are a crank", "Nonsesne", Gibberish", etc ...
 
Last edited:
You do not get the pre-axiomatic state of MAF as written in http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf .
Consider this introductory question from your pdf "Universal Reasoning":
A foundationalist believes that there are beliefs that do not need any justification by other beliefs. Therefore these beliefs can be used as an objective base ground to justify other beliefs.
An anti-foundationalist believes that there are no beliefs that do not need any
justification by other beliefs. Therefore no belief can be used as an objective base ground to justify other beliefs, and beliefs are relative to each other.
Is it possible to define a framework where anti-foundationalist and foundationalist can agree with each other?
Isn't this impossible? Isn't the anti-foundationalist position paradoxical, and then how could it be made to agree with anything? Isn't 'There are no beliefs that do not need justification by other beliefs' a belief? Isn't 'There are no axioms' the anti-foundationalist's axiom. Isn't anti-foundationalism a statement denying itself?

Then this:
In order to use logical reasoning as a common agreement between Foundationalism and Anti-Foundationalism, one has to find a mixed framework that enables beliefs to be reduced to their minimal accepted form.
...in which, by 'mixed' I assume you mean a generalising of the three logical processes listed (I think I followed that much). But surely there is no point, because the paradox of anti-foundationalism ('Nothing is certain') does not have a logical meeting with anything, does it? Can there be a logical reasoning with 'Nothing is certain'?

Isn't that the sad irony of this thread's descent?
 
Consider this introductory question from your pdf "Universal Reasoning":
Isn't this impossible? Isn't the anti-foundationalist position paradoxical, and then how could it be made to agree with anything? Isn't 'There are no beliefs that do not need justification by other beliefs' a belief? Isn't 'There are no axioms' the anti-foundationalist's axiom. Isn't anti-foundationalism a statement denying itself?

Then this:...in which, by 'mixed' I assume you mean a generalising of the three logical processes listed (I think I followed that much). But surely there is no point, because the paradox of anti-foundationalism ('Nothing is certain') does not have a logical meeting with anything, does it? Can there be a logical reasoning with 'Nothing is certain'?

Isn't that the sad irony of this thread's descent?
There is a paradox if you use a foundationalist point of view of anti-foundationalism.

But an anti-foundationalist will tell you that his own viewpoint is also relative, so there is no paradox from the point of view of anti-foundationalist.

Hard-objectivist claims that nothing is relative.

Hard anti-objectivist claims that nothing is absolute.

Both claims are based on black\white reasoning.

In http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf I show that no hard approach is researchable, and we are (as conscious complex systems) a significant factor of any research.
 
Last edited:
TMiguel said:
Prove that 1+1=5. If you can do it without making a mistake, then I take back everything I said.
MAF *__* is not MAF *__*__*__*__* .

You still do not understand that you are already using MAFs when you conclude that 1+1≠5 .

TMiguel said:
Ex. computer. It is all about where are 5v and where aren’t. There is no concept of number, no concept of relation, just 5v or 0v.
Exactly.

But since a computer is an agent of your consciousness, element 5v and element 0v are related to each other and meaning is given to any Relation\Element Interaction.

Furthermore, anything that does not obey to some meaning, understood as "white noise" where consciousness is the one who ables to understand (and basically it is closed under its own meanings).

EDIT:
The purpose of works like http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/OM.pdf and http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf is to avoid stagnation under particular meanings, by trying to generalize them, and it is done by first being aware of consciousness' owns limitations.
 
Last edited:
There is a paradox if you use a foundationalist point of view of anti-foundationalism.

But an anti-foundationalist will tell you that his own viewpoint is also relative, so there is no paradox from the point of view of anti-foundationalist.

Hard-objectivist claims that nothing is relative.

Hard anti-objectivist claims that nothing is absolute.

Both claims are based on black\white reasoning.

In http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/UR.pdf I show that no hard approach is researchable, and we are (as conscious complex systems) a significant factor of any research.

I would love to be able to understand all the lovely patterns of numbers in UR.pdf so that I could verify or refute your claim.

I find it hard to imagine that no expert mathematician could not follow your maths and verify or refute your claim.

All I have seen so far is people who are struggling to understand your claim, or who seem to say that it's nonsense.

I am left with my verbal philosophy, my ordinary reason. To my mind, if anti-foundationalist (a-fou from now on) would say that his POV is relative, as you say above, that does not remove the paradox, either in isolation (perhaps) and (more certainly) when trying to make the a-fou 'agree logically' with the fou.

In isolation, the statement "A-fou is a philosophy in which all beliefs are relative" is not a relative belief, hence it is still self-contradictory. Either a-fou is philosophically fundamental relativity (I'm making my own terms up now too!...which is presumably something like unconsciousness or void or your own definition of a singularity, something about which nothing can be said at all ever) or it has some form and usefulness - not both. In order for it to do anything, mean anything, relate to other statements or be used by any thinker, it has to be self-consistent, not its own refutation.

This statement is relatively true

is as useless except for philosophy students to go insane thinking about, as

This statement is false

and

This philosophy is that all ideas are relative

is, very unfortunately, unusable, it seems to me.

The problem is not to try to help fou and a-fou to talk the same language, the problem is that a-fou can't talk. To say anything, it needs black-and-white-ness.

The human race has spent millennia on it. The paradox does not get solved, it just moves. Your work seems to me like someone chasing the paradox, trying to get it to fall off the edge of the page, and it seems to be driven by your wish to have spirit, divinity, quantum-mechanical-cosmic-consciousness and the 'meaningful coincidences' of fluttering scarobs (if some of your background information is anything to go by). It seems an endless quest to prove God mathematically.

Yet all the authorities on the matter so far agree that you can only sit in silence and contemplate the One, not form meaningful statements about It. You seem to be trying to name the Tao. (See, again, paradox: "The Tao that can be named is not the real Tao" - so whatever you say it is, it's moved somewhere else.) Hence the long tradition of vows of silence in religion.

Fine if you want to keep trying, and I hope you contribute something to maths, if not perform THE mathematical miricle of all time. I think I've got to a point where I have to choose to stay with black-and-whiteness, only remembering that reality may actually be mysterious (therefore, I give up believing that I can make meaningful statements about the fundamental nature of reality). Like a mathematician, I play with the things I can define, and wonder at the background indefinable-ness, the 'Void'. It's fun to contemplate, but trying to fit it into a formula, I think, causes people to go mad eventually. It's amazing how many of the great mathematicians spent periods of time in mental institutions. They seem to recover in as much as they return to black-and-whiteness. Monks take the other route into Nothingness.

As kindly as I can, I suggest you sharpen your pencil or shave your head. One or the other. I have to retain some humility, however, because, as I have said, I'm not an expert mathematician. There's something called fuzzy logic, and I have no idea what it is. I'm fairly sure it isn't a bridge between science and religion, though, or it would have been on the news.

I should like to apologise for "Go forth and multiply". It was an insult, not a suggested solution to 'how do you get 2?'. "2" doesn't make any sense in anything other than foundationalism. Nothing at all makes sense in anti-foundationalism. It is the complete abandonment of reason.
 
I don't see how that should be a problem on proving that 1+1=5 if it depends on the mathematician.

Do you get this part of http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4183781&postcount=319 ?
doronshadmi said:
You or some machine that is used as your agent (which is actually an indirect influence of you) are the interactions between Relation and Element.

Without it no result can be found because Relation alone is total connectivity (and not researchable) and Element alone is total isolation (and not researchable).

For example:

1 is an element.

+ is a relation.

2 is the result of +\1 interaction, and you are a significant factor of this interaction (directly or indirectly).

EDIT: The interaction has no influence on the independency of Relation (total connectivity) with Element (total isolation) and vice versa, but any intermediate result, like some collection, is the result of the interaction between Relation (non-local atom) and Element (local atom).
 
Last edited:
John Freestone said:
"A-fou is a philosophy in which all beliefs are relative"
An anti-foundationalist does not use the term "all" during his research. Instead he uses the term "any", which does not force any conclusion on the entire system (as a foundationalist does).

John Freestone said:
The problem is not to try to help fou and a-fou to talk the same language, the problem is that a-fou can't talk. To say anything, it needs black-and-white-ness.
The problem is that black\white reasoning is not the general case of any reasoning (as can be found by the majority of the current community of mathematicians around the globe) but it is nothing but some particular case of Universal Reasoning, which is not only a black\white reasoning.

By using not only a black\white reasoning, we get a researchable framework, which is less trivial and more interesting than black\white reasoning.

John Freestone said:
"2" doesn't make any sense in anything other than foundationalism.
"2" doesn't make any sense also if only object is considered, because we need a relation (notated as "__" between object , object (notate as "*"), where each * is totally isolated without __ (and in this case *__* (notated as "2") cannot be found).

So *__* cannot be but the result of Anti-Foundationalism(Relation)\Foundationalism(Element or Object) Interaction.

John Freestone said:
Yet all the authorities on the matter so far agree that you can only sit in silence and contemplate the One
There is no such a thing as authorities on fundamental new ideas (including me, in this case). There can be experts that are using and developing already agreed ideas as long as they are interesting and\or useful.

EDIT:
John Freestone said:
You seem to be trying to name the Tao. (See, again, paradox: "The Tao that can be named is not the real Tao" - so whatever you say it is, it's moved somewhere else.) Hence the long tradition of vows of silence in religion.

Again,
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4150662&postcount=226

[qimg]http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/OM.jpg[/qimg]

As can be seen, Relation (non-locality) and Element (locality) exist both as distinct and non-distinct (singularity) state, where Consciousness is the a significant factor of the interaction between the distinct and the non-distinct.

In this diagram Tao = Singularity, whish is not researchable and can be "manifested" only by silence.
 
Last edited:

This is an old one and not correct.
Hurkyl said:
your objection is analogous to saying that we can't slice an orange because it destroys the ball-shape of the orange.
You can slice an orange but between any pair of cuts (locals) there is Continuum (Non-locality), which is logically not a collection of cuts (locals) as written in http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/NXOR-XOR.pdf .
 
Last edited:
This is an old one and not correct.
Prove it!

You claim, you prove!
You don't really get it do you?

You pound on the same mistake over and over again because you don’t like the right answer.
I’m wasting my time on a lost case, you will remain ignorant despite of whatever I show you.
If you want to move forward, all you have to do is to stop wasting your time here and my time (debunking your cranks), and take a superior course on Mathematical Analysis. Seriously take a superior course on Mathematical Analysis, if after that you still believe that your work isn’t more then just a crank, then I can certainly tell that you are not being honest whit yourself.
 
This is an old one and not correct.

You can slice an orange but between any pair of cuts (locals) there is Continuum (Non-locality), which is logically not a collection of cuts (locals) as written in http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/NXOR-XOR.pdf .

How is it that the pair of cuts are "locals" but the sections of the orange they define are somehow a "continuum (Non-locality)"?

The sections of orange are inherently local while each of the cuts, having one face of the cut on one section of orange and the other face of the cut on the other section of orange, are inherently more non-local then the sections of orange.

ETA: I you are considering two sections produced by a single cut, then it is not a pair of cuts but just two sections and “faces” produced by a single cut. Each of those faces is local to one of the sections of orange and they can even define a local volume between the sections of orange that does not include the sections of orange
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom