Consciousness.....a basic rule of physics

[reverebison]

There is gravity.

There are subatomic forces and other laws that govern our universe

but there is one other law of nature that to my knowledge has not yet been fully appreciated, although I am sure it has been contemplated by many.


FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS

This is why the unknowing, unfeeling, uncaring universe produces consciousness. It produces it infinitely. It spews it out from every point, every corner. Over and over again. Inifinitely. It has no choice. without it there can be no existence.

Since the universe is the very epitome of existence, it follows that it must produce consciousness.

 

[KingMerv00]

There is gravity.

There are subatomic forces and other laws that govern our universe

but there is one other law of nature that to my knowledge has not yet been fully appreciated, although I am sure it has been contemplated by many.


FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS

How do you figure?

This is why the unknowing, unfeeling, uncaring universe produces consciousness. It produces it infinitely. It spews it out from every point, every corner. Over and over again. Inifinitely. It has no choice. without it there can be no existence.

Since the universe is the very epitome of existence, it follows that it must produce consciousness.

The vast majority of the universe is not conscious. What makes you think it is so important?

Also, are you saying it is impossible to have a universe without consciousness? What about the first few billion years?

 

[lionking]

Consciousness of what? Serious question.

 

[Hokulele]

The universe isn't infinite. Nor is anything it "produces".

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS.

No. It's sounds like Descartes "I think, therefore I am" in reverse. To KNOW existence YOU must have consciousness. But existence itself is independent of “you” and “knowing”.

If a person dies, their knowledge of existence ends. But certainly existence itself doesn’t end. If all conscious beings lived on Earth and Earth blew up, it would be like a person dying. All knowledge of existence ends. But certainly existence itself doesn’t end.

Existence does just fine on its own without anyone being conscious of it.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Consciousness of what? Serious question.

Good reply. I see an infinite loop begging the question.

 

[lionking]

The universe isn't infinite. Nor is anything it "produces".

Actually, some cosmologists contend that the universe can indeed be infinite.

 

[Hokulele]

Actually, some cosmologists contend that the universe can indeed be infinite.

Are you talking about the oscillatory universe theory?

 

[lionking]

No. I recently read "The Infinite Book" by John Barrow, where he talks about the universe possibly being infinite in space. He is a Professor of Mathematics with some credibility. I will have another look at the book.

 

[Hokulele]

No. I recently read "The Infinite Book" by John Barrow, where he talks about the universe possibly being infinite in space. He is a Professor of Mathematics with some credibility. I will have another look at the book.

I could see this in a topological sense, sort of a Klein bottle effect, but reversebison didn't seem to be speaking topologically.

 

[lionking]

I don't think Barrow is talking topologically, but agree that this is tangental to reverebison's OP.

 

[Hokulele]

I don't think Barrow is talking topologically, but agree that this is tangental to reverebison's OP.

Meh, if this is anything like reverbison's previous OPs, it really doesn't matter what we discuss, as he will be back to spout off on the observer effect, consciousness, and the proof of some strange form of pantheism.

But to end this derail, if you find the bit in the book, PM me. I may try to find it in the local library, as that book sounds very interesting.

 

[lionking]

Meh, if this is anything like reverbison's previous OPs, it really doesn't matter what we discuss, as he will be back to spout off on the observer effect, consciousness, and the proof of some strange form of pantheism.

But to end this derail, if you find the bit in the book, PM me. I may try to find it in the local library, as that book sounds very interesting.

Sort of off-topic (cont.) but the book is "The Infinite Book" by John D Barrow. I thought I had some sort of idea of infinity before reading this (twice, because it stretches the brain, even though it is written in layperson's terms). He covers the history of infinity, different scales of infinity, whether the universe is infinite, "infinity machines" etc. Deep, but satisfying.

 

[arthwollipot]

FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS

Evidence?

This is why the unknowing, unfeeling, uncaring universe produces consciousness.

Evidence?

It produces it infinitely.

Evidence?

It spews it out from every point, every corner. Over and over again. Inifinitely. It has no choice. without it there can be no existence.

Evidence?

Since the universe is the very epitome of existence, it follows that it must produce consciousness.

And once more for the kiddies at home: Evidence?

 

[Mashuna]

FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS

No.

This is why the unknowing, unfeeling, uncaring universe produces consciousness.

No.

It produces it infinitely.

No.

It spews it out from every point, every corner. Over and over again. Inifinitely. It has no choice. without it there can be no existence.

No.

Since the universe is the very epitome of existence, it follows that it must produce consciousness.

And once more for the kiddies at home: No.

 

[lionking]

Do I get an award if I stay the distance on this thread?

 

[my_wan]

FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS

This sounds to me like the Quantum Mechanical twist of the old philosophical question: If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound? Only the lack of context or equivocation throws grave doubts on what grounds you make such a claim.

On what grounds do you presume that the existence of something depends on an awareness of that existence? I'm willing to entertain such notions, within a restricted context, but for you to state that IS the case shows a lack of appreciation of the nature of the question.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

…This is why the unknowing, unfeeling, uncaring universe produces consciousness. It produces it infinitely. It spews it out from every point, every corner. Over and over again. Inifinitely. It has no choice. without it there can be no existence.

Since the universe is the very epitome of existence, it follows that it must produce consciousness.

If I’m reading you right, then: First you proclaim that the universe is unknowing, unfeeling and uncaring, and right after you proclaim it must produce consciousness in order to exist. Think about that for a while!

What was the universe before it produced consciousness? Ah yes: according to you it was unknowing, unfeeling and uncaring… but it must have existed. How else could it have produced anything?

 

[leon_heller]

The OP seems to be talking about the Anthropic Principle. The strong version of that actually has conscious beings responsible for creating the universe.

Leon

 

[Dancing David]

There is gravity.

There are subatomic forces and other laws that govern our universe

but there is one other law of nature that to my knowledge has not yet been fully appreciated, although I am sure it has been contemplated by many.


FOR EXISTENCE, YOU MUST HAVE CONSCIOUSNESS

This is why the unknowing, unfeeling, uncaring universe produces consciousness. It produces it infinitely. It spews it out from every point, every corner. Over and over again. Inifinitely. It has no choice. without it there can be no existence.

Since the universe is the very epitome of existence, it follows that it must produce consciousness.

Define cosciousness.