CONNIE SONNE, Dowser

[richardm]

However, this accusation that he, or the JREF for that matter, has actively engaged in cheating is contemptible.

But inevitable. Am I to understand that Banachek opened the envelopes? Isn't that inviting accusations of trickery?

Edit: having read the rest of the thread I see that Connie opened them but Banacheck removed the cards. I'm not sure that's much better, but I guess the argument has already been made.

 

[Pixel42]

She agreed to the protocol. If she'd wanted someone she knew and trusted to be the one handling the envelopes, her father say, I doubt JREF would have objected provided they had someone like Banachek also sitting at the table watching. But she didn't ask for that, and it's too late now.

 

[Cuddles]

at least she's honest.

My mistake.

So, Ms Sonne knows she was cheated. The obvious thing to do is take JREF to Court and sue for the $1M and provide the evidence - but instead, she will wait until September and post her accusations on tha intratubes?

Interesting, isn't it?
"I've had a million dollars stolen from me in a case of blatant fraud in front of thousands of people. Quick! To the internet!"

What's particularly interesting is that while I know Randi and the JREF have been sued numerous times, as far as I'm aware that's always been for defamation or similar things. Despite the number of people accusing them of fraud and of stealing millions from the rightful winners, I'm not aware of a single person who has actually taken those claims to court.

 

[Cleon]

This makes me sad. Does this always happen?

Not always. My understanding is that Rosemary Hunter, who flew to the JREF from Cleveland to be tested live over the Internet, was nothing short of honorable. So the woman who said she could force people to pee with her brain had more honesty and common decency than Ms. Sonne.

 

[AndyD]

It continues to astound me how the gods and spirits that drive these unseen, universal forces of the paranormal are so easily beaten by mere magicians.

 

[ShowerComic]

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical.....

As Alison Smith said, before the test, she did have a 1 in 1000 chance of "getting it right" by chance alone. What struck me about the test was the easy way it could translate into a decent math lesson in probability. Using examples of
: 'guessing' the card number in a regular deck: 4 in 52, or 1 in 13
: 'guessing' first number in protocol: 1 in 10
: 'guessing' only one in protocol: 1 in 10 -*- 9 in 10 -*- 9 in 10
: 'guessing' only two in protocol: 1 in 10 -*- 1 in 10 -*- 9 in 10.
..... other examples.

 

[Cleon]

You know, it's weird. At first, I was worried that having Banachek perform the test would open itself to this sort of accusation*.

However, this was closely recorded on video, and the protocol was very specific and careful. I have no doubt that, upon investigation, Sonne's accusation will be shown to be complete crap.

* Don't get me wrong. I got to know Banachek pretty well during the first Amazing Adventure, and I have absolute confidence in his honesty and integrity. I'd sooner believe that Sonne can actually dowse than that Banachek cheated.

 

[ejk]

My mistake.



Interesting, isn't it?
"I've had a million dollars stolen from me in a case of blatant fraud in front of thousands of people. Quick! To the internet!"

What's particularly interesting is that while I know Randi and the JREF have been sued numerous times, as far as I'm aware that's always been for defamation or similar things. Despite the number of people accusing them of fraud and of stealing millions from the rightful winners, I'm not aware of a single person who has actually taken those claims to court.

Y'know, it occurs to me that wrongfully accusing a person or organization of deliberate fraud is itself defamation. Not that I'm saying anyone should sue Ms. Sonne. Really, just speculating/venting.

But it would make for an interesting counter-claim if she ever chooses to pursue this. Heh heh.

 

[Denver]

I think there may be some wiggle-room here, since from what I can tell, there were a couple potential variations with the protocol as accepted:

When Ms. Sonne feels that she has discovered the card that corresponds to the rolled number, she will point to the envelope she believes contains the correct card. The tester will pick up the envelope, write the selected number on the exterior of the envelope, and set the envelope aside. The remaining envelopes will be returned to the large manila envelope with the corresponding suit printed on the outside, and the steps will be repeated for two more suits.

I found this here. If this was accepted, I saw a couple deviations during the live test:

1) Mr Banachek forgot to write the number rolled on the little folded white card (not the dowsed packet), during (I think) the second suit, until after the test. For the other suits, he wrote it as soon as the number was rolled. I don't think the protocol for this little folded white card was specified, so I don't know if this variation is relevant.

2) Mr Banachek opened the final suit (I think) before he had collected up the cards from the previously dowsed suit. The protocol seems to say he should have collected the dowsed cards first, before opening the next set.

As far as I can tell, these are trivial, unimportant variations that could not have any effect on Connie's performance. BUT, if someone were to be picky, could the deviations nullify the test?

 

[Hokulele]

As far as I can tell, these are trivial, unimportant variations that could not have any effect on Connie's performance. BUT, if someone were to be picky, could the deviations nullify the test?

It could, but that simply means the test would have to be redone. It wouldn't mean that she passed and gets the million.

 

[skeen]

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Aaaaannnddd, that's what I was waiting for. Please seek psychiatric help.

 

[Marcus]

How disappointing. Even Edge did not find it necessary to fabricate cheating accusations when he was formulating his excuses. Connie goes to the bottom of the challenger heap in my book.

 

[Denver]

It could, but that simply means the test would have to be redone. It wouldn't mean that she passed and gets the million.

Right, this was not the million dollar test, just a preliminary step.

I'm speculating on Connie's claim of being cheated. I suppose, depending on the relevance of these issues, a retest would be easy enough, even with a readjusted protocol, and a different tester. But, if these issues are not relevant (and none of her other claims are), then a re-test would be a no-go. At least for another year, if I understand the rules.

But it will be interesting to me to see what the justifications of her cheat claims are, and if she would be willing to risk a retest after her recent performance.

I suspect not.

 

[Tricky]

Gzuzkrytz, you are right about both. I can and will demonstrate everything. I can and will ensure you, that Ì have been cheated. I allready have the evidences. Check my name out in first in september. I will get a website where I will put it ALL, also in english. AND all the evidences about Maddie. So you can THEN decide if I´m deluded or not!! I can only say now....most of you people out there are wrong, very wrong. My last words here on this site.

Connie

I don't believe you will. You have already demonstrated how you react to a fair test of your abilities. I would expect that if you failed another fair test, you would react in a similar way.

Like others, I had respect for you until you cried "cheater". I thought you might be that most rare of psychic claimants, one who could admit that they were wrong. Sadly, that appears not to be the case.

 

[LightinDarkness]

Sometimes I ponder what the point of the million dollar challenge is if even the claimants who fail spectacularly, as this one did, don't even stop to think that maybe that is because paranormal powers are not real.

Also, can we please stop acting like anyone who doesn't go hysterical on us is somehow worthy of our deep respect and congratulations for a failed test. You don't congratulate someone on failing a test, and failing the test in such a speculatar manner and then claiming its because the mystical powers don't want your power to be known is not respectable. Respectable would be to admit one does not have powers and move on with life.

Of course, now that Connie has thrown the temper tantrum all the empty praise of how much people "respect" and "congratulate" her will be withdrawn, but still, it was way overboard.

 

[dasmiller]

But inevitable. Am I to understand that Banachek opened the envelopes? Isn't that inviting accusations of trickery?

Edit: having read the rest of the thread I see that Connie opened them but Banacheck removed the cards. I'm not sure that's much better, but I guess the argument has already been made.

I can certainly understand why JREF would want a magician involved, an I can also understand why it might look suspicious.

With that in mind, there may be an up-side to having a magician do the card handling even for the applicant. I'm speculating here, but a magician may know 8 ways that the cards could be switched, and that if he handles the cards in X manner, then none of those 8 ways could be used. Theoretically, then, any other magician would be able to watch the tapes and know that no known tricks could have been employed because he handled them in X manner. Whereas if it was the security guard handling the cards, then there might be endless discussion - "see where she turned the envelope around just there? It may be a normal, innocent move, but if she's a really good close-up magician, she might have been able to switch it."

 

[ravdin]

You know, it's weird. At first, I was worried that having Banachek perform the test would open itself to this sort of accusation*.

However, this was closely recorded on video, and the protocol was very specific and careful. I have no doubt that, upon investigation, Sonne's accusation will be shown to be complete crap.

* Don't get me wrong. I got to know Banachek pretty well during the first Amazing Adventure, and I have absolute confidence in his honesty and integrity. I'd sooner believe that Sonne can actually dowse than that Banachek cheated.

I know that Banachek is an accomplished magician- but is he that good? Could he have (in theory) tricked Connie into selecting whatever card he chose?

I don't doubt the man's integrity either, but even if he were willing to do a bit of slight of hand on stage (just in case he wasn't confident enough of the 999:1000 odds already in his favor) I'm not sure it would be possible for any magician under those circumstances, no matter how skilled.

I very well could be wrong- I've seen plenty of magic tricks that I am similarly unable to explain.

 

[jetkins]

if she knew she was faking, she wouldn't have agreed to the protocol.

Why not? Even the statistical odds of 1:1000 of winning the $1M prize are better than playing the lottery.

 

[remirol]

Also, can we please stop acting like anyone who doesn't go hysterical on us is somehow worthy of our deep respect and congratulations for a failed test. You don't congratulate someone on failing a test, and failing the test in such a speculatar manner and then claiming its because the mystical powers don't want your power to be known is not respectable. Respectable would be to admit one does not have powers and move on with life.

Nobody was congratulating her on failing the test. They were congratulating her for taking it in the first place and being nice about it, something that we see no shortage of self-deluded people refuse to even attempt -- either the former or latter. I believe as many people as possible who claim paranormal powers should be encouraged to take the test (or any test!), and to that extent, I'm willing to be as nice as possible to people who actually seem to be willing to take the test.

Yes, her "cheating" outburst has deservedly lowered her in many members' regard. But that doesn't mean the congratulations wouldn't have been deserved if she hadn't made the outburst.

 

[pakeha]

Connie Sonne

How could that be, ravdin?

Could he have (in theory) tricked Connie into selecting whatever card he chose?

They were in silence.
Nor did Connie Sonne look at him, as far as I could tell.
It's a puzzle.