CONNIE SONNE, Dowser

[Patricio Elicer]

Yeah, she failed miserably. But I think we must thank her for the braveness of taking the challenge in front of a 700+ hundred people (skeptics=bad vibes?).

I really enjoyed the event, she showed so much confidence that for a moment I thought, what if she's the real thing?. The moment Banacheck started to open the envelopes was kind of exciting.

 

[jont37]

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

 

[ravdin]

I was rooting for Connie, and I suspect a lot of other audience members were as well. It would have been exciting to reconsider my core assumptions (although if she really could do what she claimed, selecting a playing card seems to be an utterly trivial application of her abilities).

Kudos to Connie for following through on the test and conducting herself with such poise even though she failed.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Well in my definition of graceful there is the thing where you admit that you were wrong. I might be wrong though.

But she's not wrong. As I understand it there are certain entities that work through her. If they choose not to work through her for the test, which she said could happen, how is she wrong if they don't? She's having a rational response to an irrational premise.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

Oh no! If Banachek reads this thread do let him know that I think he was absolutely stunning, especially his beautiful hair. I hope he doesn't supervise my MDC Preliminary Test, he might be a distraction! And I bet he has more hair than you.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

If you "knew" she'd fail then you probably know more about the universe than I do.

Obviously, from what we have learned so far, Connie succeeding would probably have meant a 1:googol^googol chance.

[Lt. Tuvok]However[/Lt. Tuvok], shouldn't it be the duty of a homo sapiens sapiens to keep an open mind - not too open to let our brain fall out but open enough to allow for the theoretical possibility - that one might succeed?

 

[laca]

But she's not wrong. As I understand it there are certain entities that work through her. If they choose not to work through her for the test, which she said could happen, how is she wrong if they don't? She's having a rational response to an irrational premise.

The claim was that she could perform the dowsing, not that she could perform the dowsing in case the entities chose to. If the claim were the latter, she'd won the MDC. So, from my point of view she was wrong about her ability as per the claim in question.

 

[laca]

If you "knew" she'd fail then you probably know more about the universe than I do.

Obviously, from what we have learned so far, Connie succeeding would probably have meant a 1:googol^googol chance.

[Lt. Tuvok]However[/Lt. Tuvok], shouldn't it be the duty of a homo sapiens sapiens to keep an open mind - not too open to let our brain fall out but open enough to allow for the theoretical possibility - that one might succeed?

I don't know about you, but if I were to keep an "open mind" about probabilities like that, I would probably never get anything done. So I don't. Not with those odds.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I don't know about you, but if I were to keep an "open mind" about probabilities like that, I would probably never get anything done. So I don't. Not with those odds.

Understood. It's like seeing the Natinals [sic] and the Padres win together on the road this year. Albert whiffing on three at bats in a row. Manny winning the Nobel Prize.

Like seeing the Detroit Lions make three consecutive sensible offensive decisions. No NFL player getting into legal trouble this season. Brett Favre retiring with grace.

Like seeing Chris Wallace make a trade that is explainable by reason. Tracy McGrady winning a playoff series. LeBron James accepting others to dunk on him. Michael Jordan confessing his gambling addiction. Charles Barkley turning vegan.



It could happen. Will it happen? Very probably not. But it could. That is the entire point.

 

[laca]

Understood. It's like seeing the Natinals [sic] and the Padres win together on the road this year. Albert whiffing on three at bats in a row. Manny winning the Nobel Prize.

Like seeing the Detroit Lions make three consecutive sensible offensive decisions. No NFL player getting into legal trouble this season. Brett Favre retiring with grace.

Like seeing Chris Wallace make a trade that is explainable by reason. Tracy McGrady winning a playoff series. LeBron James accepting others to dunk on him. Michael Jordan confessing his gambling addiction. Charles Barkley turning vegan.



It could happen. Will it happen? Very probably not. But it could. That is the entire point.

The probabilty of Connie guessing all 3 cards was exactly 1/1000. That is not too low. The probability of her posessing the powers she claims is another story. You said something like "1:googol^googol chance". Now that's low. I do realize you didn't mean it literally. You just meant infinitesimal, most probably. And for me, that is not worth considering.

Heck, I even play the lottery once in a while. I got 1 to 13,000,000 odds. That could happen. It most probably won't, but I keep an open mind about that.

 

[connie sonne]

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Ms. Sonne:

I have not followed this and was unaware about your test until reading this thread after it happened.

I was prepared to congratulate you on agreeing to take the test and go through with it in front of a fairly large group of people; that would take a goodly amount of courage, whether you felt you were right or not. However, this message has erased all that good feeling.

I do not know Banachek, although as a magician I have attended lectures from him and have at least said hello to him and his wife at one convention. However, this accusation that he, or the JREF for that matter, has actively engaged in cheating is contemptible. I presume that the event was video taped in some manner. Take the tape and obtain the opinion of someone trained in magic. If you can produce evidence, produce it. If not, I suggest you retract your accusation.

And by "retract your accusation," I am in fact using a euphemism for what I would like to suggest, but cannot because of certain forum rules.

Yours truly,

N/A

 

[jakesteele]

No, the JREF does not follow up on the academic supports.

No, though a description of the demonstration is usually given in the affidavit. The demonstration given to the academic is not supposed to be a test-run for the Challenge test. It is simply a quick demonstration to see if an individual with a background in critical thinking, science, or skepticism will also believe that the applicant has paranormal abilities.

No, we do not follow up with the academic by asking for a statement.

How is the test administered? Is it by JREF guys at their offices where they will put envelopes out and say, "Tell me what's in this envelope, type thing?"

Or do they go to an outside laboratory and hire independent scientists who have no vested interested in the outcome other than getting paid for their time?

 

[jont37]

I stand corrected. I didn't "know" she'd fail. I too was hoping for something cool like her actually guessing correctly. I remain dubious. I imagine there are some at JREF who indeed knew she'd fail, including her. That was the bit. Worked like a charm.

 

[BartiDdu]

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Connie, I suspect by making that comment you have in an instant discarded the respect that many on this forum and in the auditorium yesterday had for you. Personally I am glad you have come out with it. By crying 'cheat' the leopard has shown her spots. I was finding it very hard to have any respect for you anyway since I learned about your claims regarding the disappearance of the Mccann girl. People stood up for you in that you weren't making claims for money but to me that doesn't matter. Either you are malicious or you are seriously deluded - to such an extent that you probably do need psychological help if you can't see it as utterly disrespectful to the families of missing children to mess with their vulnerability.

I watched your test but in a way I am ashamed I did in that I already knew you were a 'wrongun' and maybe should have boycotted it.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Until you can provide solid evidence for your accusation, I suggest you do what NoZed Avenger suggested.



Connie, have you considered simply repeating the test with the exact same protocol and with a host of your liking? You wouldn't even need a prominent person like Banachek. Anyone able to follow the protocol would do.

 

[BartiDdu]

PS Mods, do you think it would be an idea to split this thread at the point of Connie's accusation of cheating (maybe entitled 'I was CHEATED!!!!!') because it takes this into a new episode now to which I think people's attention should be drawn.

 

[Denver]

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

I'll watch the video again when I see it online, but from what I recall of the live event, you both went through all the spades one by one. You were supposed to find the Ace during the test, which you did not. So he was looking for the Ace as you went. Since you both cut off all the other envelope tops up to the last one, and the Ace had not yet appeared, and since you were down to the last envelope, is it any wonder that before cutting open the last envelope that it was obvious before looking that it was the Ace?

 

[phyz]

Connie, please come down off that ledge. Until you made your baseless accusation, you had the respect of many. I know I watched the MDC preliminary challenge (live, in the room) hoping to see a display of the abilities you promised.

The protocol was solid. Banachek is a man of integrity. And you failed the test.

Regarding your concern that Banacheck announced that the envelope containing the Ace of Spades had been cut open (by you) before he pulled the card from the envelope, that does not match my recollection. He might have announced the card before pulling it from its inner envelope. So please consider this carefully: the flexibility of a card in a tight, flexible envelope makes it possible to visually identify a card--especially the Ace of Spades--while the card is still in the envelope.

You were not cheated. But by making that claim, you throw your reputation in among countless frauds who cannot accept the demonstration of their failure. When we watch the video and see for ourselves that you account of the event is in error, you will likely claim the video record was altered. You will deny the record and recollections of the eyewitnesses.

The clearly observable evidence suggests you have no paranormal/supernatural/psychic abilities. Your unsubstantiated protestations post-failure cast you as just another fraud.

Is that how you hope to be regarded?

 

[phyz]

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

I stand corrected. I didn't "know" she'd fail. I too was hoping for something cool like her actually guessing correctly. I remain dubious. I imagine there are some at JREF who indeed knew she'd fail, including her. That was the bit. Worked like a charm.

As an individual of such sparkling integrity and insight, it would appear you have an obligation to boycott this forum and all future TAMs. You must protest the shenanigans that you so easily saw through by removing yourself from this organization.

I will miss you. Others might disagree.