Congress: We don't need no Constitution

[HarryKeogh]

She is not "gone", is not a shell, and definitely has thought processes.

The doctors that have actually examined her disagree with you. She is in a persistant vegetative state:

PERSISTENT VEGETATIVE STATE

This term is commonly, but incorrectly, referred to as "brain-death." It can follow a coma.
People in a persistent vegetative state cannot think, speak or respond to commands and are not aware of their surroundings. They may have noncognitive functions and breathing and circulation may remain relatively intact.

They also might move spontaneously and even grimace, cry or laugh. Some people might regain some awareness after being in a persistent vegetative state, but others might remain in the state for decades.

Source: National Institutes of Health

You, however, disagree with the medical professionals. I think you're letting emotions cloud your judgement. If you have personally examined her and have a medical degree I apologize.

 

[easycruise]

Nurses have testified to this? Wow. Well, then, it's easy. Trash all the medical evidence, findings and data provided by physicians and let's just admit the medical findings of the nurses....

If you read the posts for content you will see many doctors quoted . Since you seemingly can't be bothered, I'll do the work for you....

FACT - 05/20/1990 ---DR. NEWHART-- The brain cells that control body function were not as seriously affected as initially diagnosed Consequently, it is anticipated that Terri should regain full use of her body.

FACT - 06/27/1990 ---- DR. BARAS-- had been seen by me at College Harbor and started to make improvement. Started to show some vocalization where she will say "no" and occasionally has some voluntary movement on command of eyes and mouth as reported by husband and mother.

FACT - 06-28-1990 --- DR. THACKER Moaning type vocalizations initially; no sign of excess secretions requiring frequent suctioning; intermittently swallows, probably swallows her saliva without any trouble.

FACT -- 07-10-1990 ---- DR. BARAS --Purposeful movement in right upper extremity as seen by P.T. O.T. and me Flexing right elbow not as a reflex, but voluntarily.

FACT-- 08/25/1990 DISCHARGE SUMMARY FROM BAYFRONT MEDICAL. Patient did show some improvement in range of motion.

FACT -- 01/01/1991 PHYSICAL THERAPY _EVAL---Turns head from noxious stimuli.

FACT -- 01/29/1991---- DR. ALCAZARAN --Meadowbrok California. Noted increased alertness, turns head toward voice, turns head from tactile stimulation. sucking, and rooting response to olfactory stimulation. spontaneously vocalied. Good cough. Some visual tracking.

FACT- - 02-1/1991 ---Physical Therapy Notes -- Alert throughout treatment session, responds to pain, moaning, turns head from noxious stimuli.

FACT-- 02/15/1991 --- PSYCHOLOGY NOTES WRITTEN BY PATTI SHOOK ---Terri's eye opening responses were her strongest. Terri's tactile responses were her best, with other four modalities only 1 to 2 points behind. This level of functioning is appropriate for a sensory stimulation program.

FACT-- 02/1/1992--THERAPEUTIC NOTES BY SHERRI LAGE --Patient appeared to focus on several pictures of family for 10 seconds, appeared to slightly track to left each session, but inconsistent Quick startle response to all auditory stimuli, occasionally moves head from tactile stimuli.

FACT -- 02/20/1991-- PHYSICAL THERAPY NOTES -- Patient has made significant gains since admission in all areas of range of motion.

FACT -- 03/19/1991--- SPEECH LANGUAGE NOTES -- Occasionally responds to request to verbalize, swallow and move arms.

FACT -- 06/17/1991 --- TREATMENT PLAN REVIEW -- Vocalizing when prone in PT., occasionally will say "stop" to nurse doing procedures.

Michael Schiavo's statement, "Any doctor that gave me a glimmer of hope that some new treatment or therapy would work was given free reign with Terri. I would do anything to make her well."

FACT-- 3/26/1991 ---Nurses Notes--- Terri's side rail on her bed found down after Michael left. When told about it, he replied that "that was their job.

FACT -- 1993 CAROLYN JOHNSON-- No therapy per husbands orders. Dr's orders over ridden. Patient kept in isolation, no stimulation.

FACT-- APRIL 1995-JULY 1996 -- CARLA SAUER AFFIDAVIT MICHAEL ORDERS NO REHAB; NO RANGE OF MOTION;NO NOTHING.

PATIENT ALERT AND ORIENTED, SPOKE REGULARLY "MOMMA, "MOMMY' "HELP ME"

 

[Ladyhawk]

One could argue that the hundreds of thousands killed by Saddam were worthy of the consideration of sanctity of life. One could argue the false imprisonments, the torture, the maiming, etc. by Saddam were worthy of the consideration of sanctity of life.

I don't accept your premise. The deaths of American servicemen and women are tragic and the necessity of them being in harms way is certainly worthy of discussion and debate. But to simply interject it here is besides the point. Why not argue the merits of this issue instead of poisoning the well?

That we are in Iraq is not proof that Bush or his administration does not value human life.

Edited to add: I also don't accept that there is no exit strategy. There absolutely is an exit strategy and the Iraqi elections were part of that strategy.

It seems we can only agree to disagree. I see a hypocrisy in the Bush Administration engaging so much time and effort over one life when so many more thousands are on the line. It just seems to me that their priorities are backwards.

 

[headscratcher4]

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

The above website has some very good and useful information about this case...including a timeline, and history of court review and testimony submitted to the many courts that have heard this case...some might find it interesting...

 

[RandFan]

It seems we can only agree to disagree. I see a hypocrisy in the Bush Administration engaging so much time and effort over one life when so many more thousands are on the line. It just seems to me that their priorities are backwards.

Fair enough. We can both agree that congress shouldn't be involved in this issue.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Bush couldn't be bothered to fly back to Washington after the tsunami. But he can fly back for Terri.

Bush can't be bothered to attend a single military funeral. Every previous president has.

Bush has no respect for life. But he has respect for politics.

He helps to pull the plug on thousands like Terri. He signed the Texas Futile Care Law, which has resulted in children being removed from life support when parents can't pay the hospital bill. Of course, the latest bankuptcy 'reform' legislation will guarantee more parents in poverty, and more plugs pulled.

This is pure opportunism. Bush and DeLay are laughing at the religious right chumps that rally around them when they posture on an issue like this. So gullible...

 

[easycruise]

I see a hypocrisy in the Bush Administration engaging so much time and effort over one life when so many more thousands are on the line. It just seems to me that their priorities are backwards.

So, while we're at war, we're supposed to ignore issues of living wills, euthanasia, etc.?

 

[Ladyhawk]

If you read the posts for content you will see many doctors quoted . Since you seemingly can't be bothered, I'll do the work for you....

FACT - 05/20/1990 ---DR. NEWHART-- The brain cells that control body function were not as seriously affected as initially diagnosed Consequently, it is anticipated that Terri should regain full use of her body.

FACT - 06/27/1990 ---- DR. BARAS-- had been seen by me at College Harbor and started to make improvement. Started to show some vocalization where she will say "no" and occasionally has some voluntary movement on command of eyes and mouth as reported by husband and mother.

FACT - 06-28-1990 --- DR. THACKER Moaning type vocalizations initially; no sign of excess secretions requiring frequent suctioning; intermittently swallows, probably swallows her saliva without any trouble.

FACT -- 07-10-1990 ---- DR. BARAS --Purposeful movement in right upper extremity as seen by P.T. O.T. and me Flexing right elbow not as a reflex, but voluntarily.

FACT-- 08/25/1990 DISCHARGE SUMMARY FROM BAYFRONT MEDICAL. Patient did show some improvement in range of motion.

FACT -- 01/01/1991 PHYSICAL THERAPY _EVAL---Turns head from noxious stimuli.

FACT -- 01/29/1991---- DR. ALCAZARAN --Meadowbrok California. Noted increased alertness, turns head toward voice, turns head from tactile stimulation. sucking, and rooting response to olfactory stimulation. spontaneously vocalied. Good cough. Some visual tracking.

FACT- - 02-1/1991 ---Physical Therapy Notes -- Alert throughout treatment session, responds to pain, moaning, turns head from noxious stimuli.

FACT-- 02/15/1991 --- PSYCHOLOGY NOTES WRITTEN BY PATTI SHOOK ---Terri's eye opening responses were her strongest. Terri's tactile responses were her best, with other four modalities only 1 to 2 points behind. This level of functioning is appropriate for a sensory stimulation program.

FACT-- 02/1/1992--THERAPEUTIC NOTES BY SHERRI LAGE --Patient appeared to focus on several pictures of family for 10 seconds, appeared to slightly track to left each session, but inconsistent Quick startle response to all auditory stimuli, occasionally moves head from tactile stimuli.

FACT -- 02/20/1991-- PHYSICAL THERAPY NOTES -- Patient has made significant gains since admission in all areas of range of motion.

FACT -- 03/19/1991--- SPEECH LANGUAGE NOTES -- Occasionally responds to request to verbalize, swallow and move arms.

FACT -- 06/17/1991 --- TREATMENT PLAN REVIEW -- Vocalizing when prone in PT., occasionally will say "stop" to nurse doing procedures.

Michael Schiavo's statement, "Any doctor that gave me a glimmer of hope that some new treatment or therapy would work was given free reign with Terri. I would do anything to make her well."

FACT-- 3/26/1991 ---Nurses Notes--- Terri's side rail on her bed found down after Michael left. When told about it, he replied that "that was their job.

FACT -- 1993 CAROLYN JOHNSON-- No therapy per husbands orders. Dr's orders over ridden. Patient kept in isolation, no stimulation.

FACT-- APRIL 1995-JULY 1996 -- CARLA SAUER AFFIDAVIT MICHAEL ORDERS NO REHAB; NO RANGE OF MOTION;NO NOTHING.

PATIENT ALERT AND ORIENTED, SPOKE REGULARLY "MOMMA, "MOMMY' "HELP ME"

You didn't provide a link, but that's ok....

What about this one? http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21349374.htm
"Schiavo recovery impossible, experts agree"

 

[thaiboxerken]

How many people was Scott Peterson convicted of killing?

I think it's just silly to convict SP for killing 2 people, when he really killed one person who was pregnant.

When you come up with some real facts, Easycruise, feel free to share them. I'd like the facts to come from unbiased sources, not the RTL propoganda websites.

Headscratcher posted a good website that only has facts presented.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So, while we're at war, we're supposed to ignore issues of living wills, euthanasia, etc.?

Nope, that's what we have courts for.

 

[Ladyhawk]

So, while we're at war, we're supposed to ignore issues of living wills, euthanasia, etc.?

Read the post again, easy. I referred to both as "priorities'. I didn't say one was a priority and not the other, did I? What I said was that they seemed to be backwards. And, yeah, I think that when we are at war, our government should be focusing on keeping our troops safe and getting them home as soon as possible FIRST and then worry about saving the lives of people who are already, for all practical purposes, dead.

Call me crazy....

 

[Ladyhawk]

Nope, that's what we have courts for.

And, if that doesn't work, we've got Congress!

 

[thaiboxerken]

What about this one? http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21349374.htm
"Schiavo recovery impossible, experts agree"

They are just part of the conspiracy to kill Terri. She found out that the Niburans are going to invade Eath next year. Michael Schiavo is the leader of the Niburans, the Florida Judicial system make up the upper rank, and the neurologists are part of the propoganda party. The evil-atheists and skeptics are to be the liasons of the Niburans, we're being spared to help create a human-slave race.

 

[Fidelio]

I think this sums it up rather nicely. Thanks Matt.

 

[gnome]

You'll have to forgive me, but for the life of me I cannot remember if it was Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity that I heard the other day arguing that Schiavo could still wake up and shouldn't we error on the side of life.

Allowing that trials-by-jury are subjective decision-by-conscensus rather than necessarily an objective conclusion and, thus, more prone to error, shouldn't this same argument also apply to the death penalty, which I've heard both hosts speak out in favor of?

Glenn Beck habitually devotes hours to the Schiavo case, and is strongly with her family instead of her husband on the matter. However, I believe he is against the death penalty.

 

[RussDill]

Oh boy, Ken steps in it again. Here's another person with "half a brain".

http://mentalhelp.net/books/books.php?type=de&id=1258

What matters here is not the amount of missing brain, but what part of the brain is missing. In your link, it is the right hemisphere, which the left hemisphere can make up for. It Terri's case, it is the frontal lobes of *both* hemispheres. If you don't understand or appreciate the difference, read into it.

 

[RussDill]

BTW, the reason this is unconstitutional is because it completely usurps states rights.

 

[RussDill]

Bush couldn't be bothered to fly back to Washington after the tsunami. But he can fly back for Terri.

Can you name something more he could have done by flying back to washington? Where was Kofi Annan?

Bush can't be bothered to attend a single military funeral. Every previous president has.

Really? I don't think so, most who have, it was either because it was a personal friend, or some type of group ceremony for large events. I don't think anyone want's their loved one's funeral turned into a media circus.

http://www.historynewsnetwork.com/articles/1784.html

Bush has no respect for life. But he has respect for politics.

Is this anything more than a personal attack?

He helps to pull the plug on thousands like Terri. He signed the Texas Futile Care Law, which has resulted in children being removed from life support when parents can't pay the hospital bill. Of course, the latest bankuptcy 'reform' legislation will guarantee more parents in poverty, and more plugs pulled.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2005/03/lifesupport_sto.html

I'm not sure where you are getting any of that, please provide a source.

This is pure opportunism. Bush and DeLay are laughing at the religious right chumps that rally around them when they posture on an issue like this. So gullible...

Posturing, opportunism, probably, they might also be doing what they think is right. Whatever their motivations, they are wrong to intervene in matters that have already been settled by the state of florida.

 

[punchdrunk]

BTW, the reason this is unconstitutional is because it completely usurps states rights.

House members in support of the bill repeatedly cited the 14th amendment, specifically in bold:

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I'm not a Constitutional scholar by any means. But it seems to me that this case did receive due process; it has received more litigation than any other right-to-die case in history. But perhaps that line is meant to mean "federal due process".

Democrats who opposed this legislation did not argue the states' rights issue (at least no one did while I was watching it), but the check and balances issue. The few Republicans who spoke against this bill talked more of the rights of families and keeping government out of the home.

And those who are crucifying the Republicans on this should check the record: a bit less than half of the Dems present voted aye.

 

[Earthborn]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/18/162547/578

Here is a CAT scan comparison of her brain to a "normal" brain.

She's only missing more than half of it.

Could be, but it is impossible to tell from the picture. It only shows us a small slice of it. Also without a scan from the side, it is difficult to see how much of her cerebral cortex is missing. The picture shows us a hole in the middle, while the cortex is the outermost part. The photo might give us a misleading impression that the cortex is largely intact, which is not necessarily true.