Comic books = pornography?

[Temporal Renegade]

How does viewing pornography harm people of any age? Does it cause cancer?

Only from a legal standpoint; I used to work in a comic shop, and we had all the 'adult' material in a seperate area, with signs that clearly marked it as such. We did have someome there who sold a kid an 'adults only' book, and the owner fired them on the spot--it was either that, or risk getting the place closed. We also, however, had a dad with his son, and gave his OK for his kid to read them. He figured, if the kid's going to do it, I might as well know in advance.

My (rather convoluted) point is, if a shop is closed because of someone breaking the (admittedly vague) law, it's the employees that are S.O.L. It's a matter of self-preservation; why risk getting busted and losing your job for a few dollars?
Personally, if someone wants to view porn, that's up to them. I don't pass that judgement on anyone (having viewed my fair share in the past )
Besides, it's mostly all the same anyway---seen one, seen just about all.

 

[kourama]

Why Cleopatra! I had no idea!

We have quite a bit in common.

I think Manara is excellent, and I would classify some of his stuff as pornography, as it is obviously intended to be sexually arousing, but I also think it falls under the category of what you describe as "Erotic Art".

One of Manara's 'Clic' stories ended with a fisting scene. That's pretty pornogprahic IMO.

I've seen crepax stuff too, and remember liking it, but nothing sticks in my mind like Manara's stuff. He's gifted.

As far as arresting people for selling pornography to children, can I get my local christian bookstore closed for selling a RSV bible which contains descriptions of people eating faeces (Isaiah 36:12), and voluminous ejaculation and giant penises (Ezekiel 23:20-21)???

 

[zakur]

As far as arresting people for selling pornography to children..

A couple of people have mentioned this, and I just want to clarify that this was not what happened in this case. Castillo was arrested for selling an adult comic, from the adult section of the store, to an adult police officer, and convicted because the DA convinced the jury that all "comic books ... are for kids." This case was NOT about selling pornography to kids.

http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000146.shtml

 

[Bikewer]

Dabbling as I do in the arts, I've read quite a bit on the history of the comic-book industry. Back in the 30's, the burgeoning comic-book market led to the release of more and more graphic material, much of it of the "true romance" sort.

Naturally, parents began to get upset.... a presage of Tipper Gore, pehaps.

This eventually led to the adoption of the "comic code", which prohibited almost everything in the comic-book format. (Very similar to the Hayes Commision work on movie conduct)

The editor of "Mad", then putting the satiric rag up as a comic-sized volume, simply changed it's format slightly, calling it a "magazine", and continuing to publish rather inflammatory material without restriction.

 

[Glory]

Dabbling as I do in the arts, I've read quite a bit on the history of the comic-book industry. Back in the 30's, the burgeoning comic-book market led to the release of more and more graphic material, much of it of the "true romance" sort.

Naturally, parents began to get upset.... a presage of Tipper Gore, pehaps.

This eventually led to the adoption of the "comic code", which prohibited almost everything in the comic-book format. (Very similar to the Hayes Commision work on movie conduct)

The editor of "Mad", then putting the satiric rag up as a comic-sized volume, simply changed it's format slightly, calling it a "magazine", and continuing to publish rather inflammatory material without restriction.

The comics code clearly defined "comic book" as being of a certain size amongst other criteria. What, I must wonder is the definition used in the Castillo case?

Glory

 

[Bikewer]

Dunno- There seem to be a lot of different formats available now. We have the "graphic novel", for instance.

I'm quite a fan of comic erotica, those Italian lads like Manara do nice work. I'm also fond of Michael Manning, who works in a more graphic black & white style.

 

[Cleopatra]

How does viewing pornography harm people of any age? Does it cause cancer?

Being a great fan of Erotic Art I feel the need to address that

Yes, pornography harms people.

First of all, pornography is a 8-10 billion $ business with close ties to organized crime.

According to many many surveys the psychological effects of pornography are tremendous.

A series of surveys have found that exposure to violent forms of p. can lead to anti-social behavior; males tend to become more aggressive towards women, less responsive to pain and suffering of rape victims and the most important is that they are willing to accept various myths about rape.

So, we can't accept pornography just like that.

I could have mentioned more side-effects of p. but I leave it for now, just one hint , in the most cases of violent incidents against children, the perpetrators were in possession of large quantity of pornographic material...

Kourama, yes of course I agree that recent stories of Milo Manara are just a pretense for sketching more nude women.

LW "The Indian summer" is a classic, as for your example of the whispering French woman and the shouting moustached German... I intend to quote you as often as possible

 

[LucyR]

Typically I ignore your posts as I consider you to be one of the more weak-minded people on this forum.

Your most recent drivel merely confirms my impression of you.

 

[Cleopatra]

Are you addressing to me?

If you do, please be more soft I am risking to lose my sleep right now....

 

[Glory]

Being a great fan of Erotic Art I feel the need to address that

Yes, pornography harms people.

First of all, pornography is a 8-10 billion $ business with close ties to organized crime.

According to many many surveys the psychological effects of pornography are tremendous.

A series of surveys have found that exposure to violent forms of p. can lead to anti-social behavior; males tend to become more aggressive towards women, less responsive to pain and suffering of rape victims and the most important is that they are willing to accept various myths about rape.

So, we can't accept pornography just like that.

I could have mentioned more side-effects of p. but I leave it for now, just one hint , in the most cases of violent incidents against children, the perpetrators were in possession of large quantity of pornographic material...

Kourama, yes of course I agree that recent stories of Milo Manara are just a pretense for sketching more nude women.

LW "The Indian summer" is a classic, as for your example of the whispering French woman and the shouting moustached German... I intend to quote you as often as possible

There are just as many studies which refute these claims as support them. Everyone responds to porn differently and everyone uses it differently. Generalizations like these are not useful and are misleading,IMO.

Regarding the fact that child molesters use porn, so do nonmolesters. I know several people who use porn very liberally. My husband loves porn and has a veritable ton of it. He is not a molester and neither are the people I know who also use it a lot. I also know a woman whose daughter was molested by her husband for years. He is in prison now. A search of his home, car, and office revealed no pornographic material. Go figure.

Lastly, lets not confuse correlation with causation. They are different and utterly independant phenomena.

Glory

 

[LucyR]

Glory,

You have a great deal more patience than I do.

 

[Cleopatra]

My husband loves porn and has a veritable ton of it. He is not a molester and neither are the people I know who also use it a lot. I also know a woman whose daughter was molested by her husband for years. He is in prison now. A search of his home, car, and office revealed no pornographic material. Go figure.
Glory

These examples are anecdotal, I am sorry, I wish things were they way you say but there are many studies that relate pornography to violence and I can mention to you a series if you wish.

 

[Cleopatra]

Glory,

You have a great deal more patience than I do.

It's true that geniuses lack patience....

 

[LucyR]

...often where fools are concerned.

 

[Cleopatra]

...often where fools are concerned.

Please, I insist. Especially where fools are concerned it's the intellectual's duty to preach.

Please, illuminate us. Show us how pornography doesn't cause cancer.

 

[LucyR]

Especially where fools are concerned it's the intellectual's duty to preach.

Wrong as usual.

 

[Cleopatra]

Wrong as usual.

Please don't be that cruel. Show me where I am wrong , Speak-up!!! Illuminate us!!!

 

[Marc]

First of all, pornography is a 8-10 billion $ business with close ties to organized crime.

And what evidence is there for that? When prohibition was in force organized crime made a lot of money off of alcohal. But porn is legal, not only that but it is not as stigmatized as it used to be. You can find movies available for viewing in most major hotel chains and cable providers. Maybe people do not like to talk about it, but the people giving us porn are not shady organizations but major corporations. (ok, maybe that doesn't make them any less 'criminal' )


The only real harm I see being done by porn is soreness in the wrist and damage to the wallet.

 

[Cleopatra]

And what evidence is there for that? When prohibition was in force organized crime made a lot of money off of alcohal.

First of all I am not pro-prohibition of porn and second I was having in mind the Report of the Attorney General coming from the U.S Department of Justice, do you want a complete reference?

 

[Glory]

These examples are anecdotal, I am sorry, I wish things were they way you say but there are many studies that relate pornography to violence and I can mention to you a series if you wish.

I have read plent of studies. I have also read studies which contradict them.

Yes, I offered up anecdotes. That is all we have. Anecdotes. These anecdotes illustrate the fact tha using porn does not make one into a predator. For every molester who uses porn there is a nonmolester who uses it. For every rapist who uses porn, there is a nonrapist who uses it. Blaming porn is convenient but ultimately not supportable. We will have to look elsewhere for the cause of these problems.

Glory