Colonel Donn de Grand Pre

[TJM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

Fox News rare F93 footage, never shown again.

The Fox reporter speaks of a debris field with a radius of 3-4 miles.

Notice any similarities?

 

[beachnut]

..
The Pennsylvania state police said debris from the crash has shown up about 8 miles away in a residential area where local media quoted some residents as seeing flaming debris from the sky.
....

OOPS, you have no source; you have Internet hearsay cherry-picked in the orchard of delusion.

Source; and photos of the flaming debris. Got the real wind speed yet at altitude that day and times for this flaming debris falling?

Got facts?

You have the wrong wind speed and now resort to failed cherry-picking for your delusions.

 

[BigAl]

Lets state in what we agree upon... According to witnesses:

All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead.

I'm willing to accept as a possibility that the plane came down at very high speed because the engines were still functioning.

When something, a bird or a missile hits an airplane, the data and voice recorders tell us what happened in rather great detail.

The recorders show no such impacts or damage on Flight 93.

 

[Reheat]

Hay, 911-investigator,

I've got radar plots and ATC communications tapes that show where all of the Happy Hooligans were around the time of UA 93's crash. If you'll give me a cut of your Court Case and your Pulitzer Price I'll share them with you!


ETA: I've used up my supply of Laughing Dogs tonight!

 

[9/11-investigator]

Here is a review I found for one of the books written by the colonel:

This is Donn de Grand Pre's explosive book Barbarians Inside the Gates 1 - The Black Book of Bolshevism - The Serpent's Sting (2000) which exposes the unindicted criminal politicians with a fanatical will to power who are wedded to international financial oligarchs with absolutely no scruples. These modern-day barbarians have seized the critical levers of power and are straining the ultimate brass ring - a global government of absolute despotism under their domain. What is their battle plan? Destroy the US constitution, disarm the citizen, collapse the economy, introduce the Police State? Will Israel trigger WWIII? The ongoing game plan is to suck the US military once more into the battle for control of the Middle East as the surrogates of Israel. Are we on the eve of a bloody revolution and martial law in the United States of America or will it be World War III? The barbarians are not at the gates, they are inside the gates - and have academic tenure, judicial appointments, government grants, and control of the movies, television, and other media. The question of the hour - and of the next century - is whether all this can be turned around. Colonel Donn de Grand Pré, a former Pentagon arms salesman, was disillusioned with US government’s course, both at home and abroad. As he exited Washington he began an intensive program of research which slowly unmasked a deadly "Bolshevik" peril to our Republic - "hidden Barbarians" already inside the gates, an enemy totally dedicated to the destruction of american sovereignty as a nation-state and the enslavement or extermination of all who might block their plans for World domination. Barbarians Inside the Gates will give you the chills when you'll find out who is really in charge of this crazy world. 435 pages. A must read for everyone.

Unbelievable, this was written before 9/11.

- Destroy the US constitution: Patriot Act (was written well before 9/11); in fact 9/11 was intended to destroy the consitution at home and initiate foreign wars - check
- disarm the citizen: all the signals from Washington are that they want to restrict the constitutional right to bear arms - check
- collapse the economy: no comments necessary - check
- introduce the Police State: in full progress - check
- Will Israel trigger WWIII: if it's up to them, yes, pressing for war against Iran. Types like Soros organizing color coded revolutions in Ukraine, Georgia. Sending American battle ships to the Black See to threaten Russia, pushing for placement of rockets in Poland - check
- The ongoing game plan is to suck the US military once more into the battle for control of the Middle East as the surrogates of Israel: the neocons achieved this using 9/11 as a pretext - check

The colonel is a visionary.

Breach of rule 12 removed.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

 

[ElMondoHummus]

This is all useless obsfucation. Col. de Grand-Pre's allegation of a shootdown was directly refuted by a government official who rode with the pilot (Lt. Col. Rick Gibney ) de Grand-Pre claims actually performed the shootdown. Furthermore, FDR and CVR data is entirely inconsistent with a damaged jet. On top of that, the spread of the debris field is also not surprising; a "shot down" airliner should leave a line, not a radial spread of debris.

There is nothing here but elements separated from context. The entire weight of the evidence points towards a hijacker controlled flight into the ground, not a shootdown plot. Any other points brought up must account for the ATC radar data and FDR at minimum. Quotemines and unsupported links to conspiratorial websites do not achieve that level of proof, not by a long shot.

 

[peteweaver]

Fine, wo cares? We want to explain why the plane came down in the first place.

It was hijacked by terrorists intent on using it as a kamikaze weapon, they chose to crash it as the passengers had fought back.

Explain the observed debris rain over the lake a few minutes after the (main part of the) plane crashed as described a few posts earlier.

Your evidence for "observed debris rain over the lake" ?

 

[HawksFan]

I'm sorry, but this caught my eye. How many battleships did we send to the Black See (sic)?

Oh yeah, and when does that police state kick in? I'm not seeing any evidence of it here.

 

[lapman]

- Destroy the US constitution: Patriot Act (was written well before 9/11); in fact 9/11 was intended to destroy the consitution at home and initiate foreign wars - check

False. The constitution is still there and you are writing on this forum which also proves how wrong you are.

- disarm the citizen: all the signals from Washington are that they want to restrict the constitutional right to bear arms - check

I know plenty of people with guns and the gun shops are open. Wrong again.

- collapse the economy: no comments necessary - check

Not collapsed. People are still out there shopping. Fail

- introduce the Police State: in full progress - check

You and the rest of the twoofers are still alive. Fail

- Will Israel trigger WWIII: if it's up to them, yes, pressing for war against Iran. Types like Soros organizing color coded revolutions in Ukraine, Georgia. Sending American battle ships to the Black See to threaten Russia, pushing for placement of rockets in Poland - check

Not happening. Fail

- The ongoing game plan is to suck the US military once more into the battle for control of the Middle East as the surrogates of Israel: the neocons achieved this using 9/11 as a pretext - check

Wrong again. Fail. Showing yourself to be an anti-semite. Check

 

[beachnut]

Here is a review I found for one of the books written by the colonel:

This is Donn de Grand Pre's explosive book Barbarians Inside the Gates 1 -

The colonel is a visionary.
...
They are easy recognizable: always accusing their opponents of being a 'Nazi', a 'racist', a 'bigot', the complete SPLC/ADL vocabulary, hell bent on destroying western nations with their agenda of mass immigration.

The book is fiction contains zero evidence; like your posts.

Your posts make it too easy to label your biased character. You can't pick a single conclusion in the book of fiction from the dumbest 911Truth book writer save DRG. Pre's idea on 911 leave no doubt his is a top dolt of 911Truth.

 

[dudalb]

False. The constitution is still there and you are writing on this forum which also proves how wrong you are.
I know plenty of people with guns and the gun shops are open. Wrong again.
Not collapsed. People are still out there shopping. Fail
You and the rest of the twoofers are still alive. Fail
Not happening. Fail
Wrong again. Fail. Showing yourself to be an anti-semite. Check

You made one mistake: 9/11 Investigator showed himself to be an Anti Semite a long time ago, in fact from the first day he posted on jREF. He has increased his efforts lately, probably to fill the gap made by the apparent departure of MaGZ.

 

[dudalb]

The book is fiction contains zero evidence; like your posts.

Your posts make it too easy to label your biased character. You can't pick a single conclusion in the book of fiction from the dumbest 911Truth book writer save DRG. Pre's idea on 911 leave no doubt his is a top dolt of 911Truth.

And in "The Jews Did It" subsection of 9/11 Truth; the scummiest of the lot.

 

[9/11-investigator]

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd173.htm

A few months after I returned, I had a lengthy phone conversation with one of my dearest friends, Brigadier General Ben Partin, U.S.A.F. (Ret). Ben is no conspiracy whacko (bio here) and is one of the most decent, honorable people I've ever had the honor of knowing. When I brought up this issue, Ben said that not too long ago he was at a luncheon for retired military officers and Col. Donn de Grand-Pre was there; he also said that he had known Col. de Grand-Pre for twenty years and never knew him to lie about anything. Ben asked Col. de Grand-Pre face to face about the shoot down of Flight 93 and the response was: Yes, he interviewed the pilot who shot down Flight 93 and there's no question whatsoever that Flight 93 was deliberately shot down in a no win situation.

The colonel gets a very good reference from a general no less and on top of that one with a name. Somehow I attach more credibility to that than that derived from smears uttered by anonymous government loyalists, like our analist beachnut who likes to call the colonel 'the dumbest 911Truth book writer save DRG'.

P.S. thanks to ElMondoHummus for providing he name of the pilot that shot down F93. Did not know that one.

 

[9/11-investigator]

And in "The Jews Did It" subsection of 9/11 Truth; the scummiest of the lot.

So you call the ex-president of Italy scum? Marvellous.

Question to dudalb: why is it not scummy to accuse Arabs but is it scummy to accuse Israelis? What's the difference? Are Israelis better than Arabs? Would you not agree that in the end evidence and not race/religion should be the deciding factor?

And in that light: can you point to a 'dancing Arabs' event?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. style tip: try to reduce the usage of the word 'anti-semitism' to 50% rather than the 75% in your posts. After all we are discussing the good colonel here, not your personal hobby horse.

 

[9/11-investigator]

This is all useless obsfucation. Col. de Grand-Pre's allegation of a shootdown was directly refuted by a government official who rode with the pilot (Lt. Col. Rick Gibney ) de Grand-Pre claims actually performed the shootdown.

That settles it then. If a government official says that the pilot did not shoot down F93, than that is decided for all eternity.

Eh wait, if the government official had not said that, then the government would have been exposed as a liar. Can't have that. Careers, mortages and stuff.

It would be interesting to hear the pilot himself about it. I bet that he is told to keep his mouth shut.

This pilot should be the first person to be interrogated by an independent commission.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

I was pointing out that a witness to Gibney's whereabouts confirms he was not involved in any shootdown. Add that to the fact that the FDR and CVR contradict the notion of a shootdown, and the fact that the heavy debris was relatively close to the impact point - something testified to by first responders - then you have a story that points away from a shootdown.

It's a weak argument to write off one person's testimony because he works for the government, especially when the witness in question works for a state, not the federal government (Jacoby is the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office). Unless you want to argue that a bureau of the NY State government is somehow in on the plot, something for which you have zero evidence for. As a matter of fact, you have zero evidence for writing off a statement from the pilot's passenger, as well as zero evidence for saying that they lied and had their jobs threatened. I can make up stuff too, but I don't pass it off as truth, so I'll chalk that up as a standard truther fail in this thread.

Why don't you try to deal with the fact that someone testified that Gibney was nowhere near FL93, something supported by the ATC radar data which puts no aircraft in the vicinity of that flight? I mean... facts and evidence... they're a bitch, ain't they? Too bad ignoring them sinks your argument.

Someone wake me when and if 9/11-I ever presents a factual rebuttal.

 

[9/11-investigator]

This is all useless obsfucation. Col. de Grand-Pre's allegation of a shootdown was directly refuted by a government official who rode with the pilot (Lt. Col. Rick Gibney )

Gibney was provided an alibi (?) because it was claimed that he 'rode' this official to New York.

According to inforwars:

He was awarded a medal from the Governor one year later for his heroic actions. As well as Decorated by Congress on 9/13/2001.

So what did he get this medal for... for his excellent air taxi services?

Not very likely. He must have received it for something bigger (and as an enticement to remain silent?)

 

[dudalb]

So you call the ex-president of Italy scum? Marvellous.

Question to dudalb: why is it not scummy to accuse Arabs but is it scummy to accuse Israelis? What's the difference? Are Israelis better than Arabs? Would you not agree that in the end evidence and not race/religion should be the deciding factor?

And in that light: can you point to a 'dancing Arabs' event?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. style tip: try to reduce the usage of the word 'anti-semitism' to 50% rather than the 75% in your posts. After all we are discussing the good colonal here, not your personal hobby horse.

Because there is solid evidence that Islamic Extremists did it, and none that the Jews did it, except in the minds of bigots.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Gibney was provided an alibi (?) because it was claimed that he 'rode' this official to New York.

According to inforwars:

He was awarded a medal from the Governor one year later for his heroic actions. As well as Decorated by Congress on 9/13/2001.

So what did he get this medal for... for his excellent air taxi services?

Not very likely. He must have received it for something bigger (and as an enticement to remain silent?)

Oh, please. That's your rebuttal? He got a medal? Therefore he must've done something else??

Again, zero proof. This doesn't even rise to the level of good mud slinging. It's just pathetic. You have no idea if this was a high level decoration or just a "was in service" medal, and that's even presuming the medal was awarded for the "taxi" service he provided on 9/11, which is not made clear. You need to research "medal inflation" and report back to us the significance of this award he got. Because you clearly do not know, you are merely trying to link the award to some disproven - not unproven, but disproven i.e. refuted - shootdown myth. In the face of all the other evidence, such as the FDR indicating a properly functional aircraft all the way into the ground, the CVR being devoid of any explosions, the radar data showing no other aircraft in the area, and the heavy debris (engine parts, larger pieces of the airframe) and human remains being relatively close to the impact zone you present... a medal.

Again, people, wake me when he presents a factual rebuttal. One that actually addresses the evidence, that is.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I was pointing out that a witness to Gibney's whereabouts confirms he was not involved in any shootdown.

What I can find about Jacoby is that it is Popular Mechanics who makes that statement in the name of Jacoby. Can you produce a pointer to where Jacoby says so himself? Popular Mechanics has a very bad uhhh... press in truther circles, with good reason.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gopm/index.html

Add that to the fact that the FDR and CVR contradict the notion of a shootdown, and the fact that the heavy debris was relatively close to the impact point - something testified to by first responders - then you have a story that points away from a shootdown.

Has been discussed in this thread. It does not matter whether a plane storms towards the earth with or without a tail (in the latter case after being shot in the tail); it will result in the same primary debris field. It is the (existence of a) secondary and tertiary debris fields that undermine the official story; FDR and CVR have been researched by the party who is under suspicion (in the eyes of the truthers).

It's a weak argument to write off one person's testimony because he works for the government, especially when the witness in question works for a state, not the federal government (Jacoby is the director of the New York State Emergency Management Office). Unless you want to argue that a bureau of the NY State government is somehow in on the plot, something for which you have zero evidence for.

You have yet to produce evidence that it was Jacoby himself who stated as such rather than PM.

On the other hand I have a high-ranking officer who says he spoke to the pilot. Why would he lie? It takes persona courage to stand up to the government, no gain is to be expected from such a move, except honor and self respect.

I mean... facts and evidence... they're a bitch, ain't they? Too bad ignoring them sinks your argument.

I was about to say that myself.