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Collapse of US Empire: Slow or swift?

Far from collapsing,

the ravening Eagle of the West now stretches its fearsome wings above a cowering world of miserable wretches! For every one of ours, ten thousand of theirs will perish! A hundred thousand! Amerikkka is strong! strong! STRONG! and it amuses us to toy with the weak!

And what are you going to do about it, JawboneJune?
 
JihadJane said:
Will the collapse of the US empire take decades or will it be "swift, silent, certain".



"Imperial collapse may come much more suddenly than many historians imagine. A combination of fiscal deficits and military overstretch suggests that the United States may be the next empire on the precipice."



Collapse of the American Empire: swift, silent, certain

Historians warning of a sudden 'thief at night,' an 'accelerating car crash':

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-rise-and-certain-fall-of-the-american-empire-2010-03-09
Click to expand...

Decades. Assuming it happens at all.

Oh, you do realize it hasn't even started yet, right? So why start the thread?
 
JihadJane said:
Will the collapse of the US empire take decades or will it be "swift, silent, certain".



"Imperial collapse may come much more suddenly than many historians imagine. A combination of fiscal deficits and military overstretch suggests that the United States may be the next empire on the precipice."



Collapse of the American Empire: swift, silent, certain

Historians warning of a sudden 'thief at night,' an 'accelerating car crash':

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-rise-and-certain-fall-of-the-american-empire-2010-03-09
Click to expand...

Looks like it is going to be pretty swift:
http://media.ft.com/cms/7a7a1484-17a3-11de-8c9d-0000779fd2ac.swf
 
This thread title reminded me of when I watched the history channel at 2 in the morning one night cause I couldn't sleep. Brilliant idea. It was all about in the event that terrorists nuke a major city and what would happen in the minutes after that. They mentioned some experts believing its a question of "when" not "if." I immediately thought let me move to Canada or New Zealand because its going to get even messier after that when we retaliate. This world can't afford to have a nuclear war, very scary thought.

I live right across the river from Manhattan and I think a quick death would be better than living with what could happen afterwards. Sorry for the grim post.
 
aviolet4u said:
This thread title reminded me of when I watched the history channel at 2 in the morning one night cause I couldn't sleep. Brilliant idea. It was all about in the event that terrorists nuke a major city and what would happen in the minutes after that. They mentioned some experts believing its a question of "when" not "if." I immediately thought let me move to Canada or New Zealand because its going to get even messier after that when we retaliate. This world can't afford to have a nuclear war, very scary thought.

I live right across the river from Manhattan and I think a quick death would be better than living with what could happen afterwards. Sorry for the grim post.
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Why is it that everyone thinks that if ever a nuclear bomb is detonated in anger, the entire world will promptly burst into atomic flames, as everybody near a nuclear weapon system is seized with an uncontrollable urge to use it?

ETA: I mean, tactically and strategically, there are very few cases where a nuclear strike would require a nuclear retaliation. And in almost all cases where a nuclear retaliation is required, the fact of that requirement itself has proven to be a very effective deterrent against the strike.

I have no doubt that a terrorist nuclear strike in a U.S. city would bring down a world of hurt on somebody in retaliation. But it would almost certainly be localized, discrete, and non-nuclear. Maybe, maybe if a plausible case could be made that the terrorist strike was sponsored by a specific state government, that state might have its main nuclear arsenal or factory nuked, simply as the quickest and easiest method of putting a stop to their shenanigans. And that would be the end of it. One nuke here, one nuke there. Some fallout in Manhattan, some fallout at Pantsganistan Military-Industrial Complex Alpha. A lot of conventional-warfare beatdowns in and around Pantsganistan. A lot of counter-terrorist operations in a lot of different countries. That's about it.

What you should really be worried about is whether or not the world can afford to have a terrorist war. Right now it looks pretty affordable--sustainable, even--for both sides. But it will probably escalate sooner or later.
 
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The US doesn't have an empire. Apart from Puerto Rico and a few islands here and there, the US does not rule over any distant lands. What they have is tremendous economic power. That will probably decrease as other powers become more modern. I doubt it will ever go away.
 
That you chose the name of a traitor for your username is very fitting, Jihad.

And BTW, which empire would you like to take over? China? Yeah, you'd like that, wouldn't you? They certainly have a good record of democracy and human rights. :rolleyes:
 
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Tricky said:
The US doesn't have an empire. Apart from Puerto Rico and a few islands here and there, the US does not rule over any distant lands. What they have is tremendous economic power. That will probably decrease as other powers become more modern. I doubt it will ever go away.
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Oops! Forgot the military power....
 
KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD - The American Republic is 226 years old. The Roman Empire lasted 13 centuries before collapsing. The Roman emperors attempted to stave off the collapse by providing bread and circuses to the masses. Feeding Christians to lions worked only for so long. I picture Caligula “Mad Money” Cramer exhorting the masses that the worst was over and not to worry about the Vandals and the Huns. Nero “Mustard Seed” Kudlow probably saw a recovery on the horizon as Barbarians were at the gates of the city. Cleopatra “Money Honey” Bartiromo was proclaiming that the stupid masses didn’t know what was best for the system. Caesar “Glimmers of Hope” Obama was sure that if they just distributed more bread and added a few more circuses, things would improve by the Ides of March.


The false prosperity we have been experiencing for the last thirty years has come to an abrupt conclusion in the last 18 months. The amount of wealth destroyed is beyond comprehension. Household net worth has declined by $12 trillion in a matter of months.


'United States Empire Built on False Prosperity Collapsing'

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10256.html
 
Trouble is a good sign for the U.S.

JihadJane said:
KEEP ON ROCKIN IN THE FREE WORLD - The American Republic is 226 years old. The Roman Empire lasted 13 centuries before collapsing. The Roman emperors attempted to stave off the collapse by providing bread and circuses to the masses. Feeding Christians to lions worked only for so long. I picture Caligula “Mad Money” Cramer exhorting the masses that the worst was over and not to worry about the Vandals and the Huns. Nero “Mustard Seed” Kudlow probably saw a recovery on the horizon as Barbarians were at the gates of the city. Cleopatra “Money Honey” Bartiromo was proclaiming that the stupid masses didn’t know what was best for the system. Caesar “Glimmers of Hope” Obama was sure that if they just distributed more bread and added a few more circuses, things would improve by the Ides of March.


The false prosperity we have been experiencing for the last thirty years has come to an abrupt conclusion in the last 18 months. The amount of wealth destroyed is beyond comprehension. Household net worth has declined by $12 trillion in a matter of months.


'United States Empire Built on False Prosperity Collapsing'

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article10256.html
Click to expand...

Until the next wave of life-changing technologies come on line.
I can remember reading the same prophecies of doom and gloom in the 70's. It's all eerily familiar, in fact.

And then came Intel, and Cisco, and Microsoft, and IBM, and Google, and HP, and Apple, and .... prosperity.

We blew it all, of course, like a drunken sailor with his pockets stuffed with poker winnings. But then managing properity was never our strong suit. We tend to get complacent, and too forgiving of foolishness.

JihadJane, won't your day be ruined when we pull our butts out of the fire once again and take another giant step forward? This time around we have ally's who are well recovered from war's devestation, and China - for all it's warts - has lined up firmly in the "progress, not regress" camp.

It has always been adversity that breeds our finest moments, not the good times. Sorry, JJ, in our darkest our we and our ally's will come through stronger, once again. And I know that you know that. Doesn't that just burn your toast?
 
Funny, the only times Jihad says anything in her own words, it's in the humour section. Everything else is copy and pasted.

BTW, Jihad Jane, if I were you I'd lay low for a while, and not post anti-American ******** on the internet, your homonym being arrested for conspiracy and all.

Just saying.
 
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SonOfLaertes said:
Until the next wave of life-changing technologies come on line.
I can remember reading the same prophecies of doom and gloom in the 70's. It's all eerily familiar, in fact.

And then came Intel, and Cisco, and Microsoft, and IBM, and Google, and HP, and Apple, and .... prosperity.

We blew it all, of course, like a drunken sailor with his pockets stuffed with poker winnings. But then managing properity was never our strong suit. We tend to get complacent, and too forgiving of foolishness.

JihadJane, won't your day be ruined when we pull our butts out of the fire once again and take another giant step forward? This time around we have ally's who are well recovered from war's devestation, and China - for all it's warts - has lined up firmly in the "progress, not regress" camp.

It has always been adversity that breeds our finest moments, not the good times. Sorry, JJ, in our darkest our we and our ally's will come through stronger, once again. And I know that you know that. Doesn't that just burn your toast?
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Thanks for your comments, though your attempt to personalize the issue into a cartoon is unfortunate.

Your faith in "life-changing technologies" maybe displaced, as may be the reassurance you draw from prophesies from the 1970's as a guide to the 2010s and beyond. We only die once... It was a much-derided prediction from the 50s that correctly prophesied the peak is US oil production in the 70s.

Your list of wonder techno companies is also dubious. How much real wealth has Google, for example, brought to the United States?

I agree that the collapse of the US empire could be very good for the US republic, though not in terms of "progress" as we have known it. It may also be good news for the planet as a whole, not least environmentally.




The American Empire will collapse by 2020

Decline of America's Empire May Not Ring Death Knell For The Republic

 
Russia Today... Poor little Russians, they still think they have an influence in the world, and holding on to the wish someday they'll get back on track.

You do know the cold war has ended, Jihad, and that you lost?
 
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JihadJane said:
as may be the reassurance you draw from prophesies from the 1970's as a guide to the 2010s and beyond.
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What?

JihadJane said:
It was a much-derided prediction from the 50s that correctly prophesied the peak is US oil production in the 70s.
Click to expand...

Come again?

JihadJane said:
Your list of wonder techno companies is also dubious. How much real wealth has Google, for example, brought to the United States?
Click to expand...

In terms of overall properity, a lot. Google and companies like them are all part of a sector that produced a lot of wealth. IBM, Cisco, Microsoft - these companies and more produced real products which produced real wealth for a few decades and counting. You can't isolate Google and say it's a company that didn't produce real wealth, when Google was an influential player in a sector that invigorated the US economy and produced technologies with far reaching ramifications - for example, defense systems, which are highly technical and extremely lucrative for the US.

Do you have any idea how many high-paying jobs Google has created?
 
You have to understand Jihad's logic: when "bad" companies make money, they're part of the "American Empire", when "good" companies make money, they do not contribute to America's wealth.
 
JihadJane said:
The American Empire will collapse by 2020

Decline of America's Empire May Not Ring Death Knell For The Republic

Click to expand...

According to Wikipedia, in 1953 Galtung had predicted that the USSR would overtake the West economically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Galtung#Predictions

And like Jehovah's Witnesses who keep pushing back the date for the end of the world, he seems to push the date for America's downfall as well.

Got anymore of your "experts" to show us?

And BTW, reading his profile I can't help but to see the striking similarities with your own posts. Do you have any genuine opinions of your own, or do you copy paste the worldview of others and make them your own?
 
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