Collapse of US Empire: Slow or swift?

[JihadJane]

Will the collapse of the US empire take decades or will it be "swift, silent, certain".



"Imperial collapse may come much more suddenly than many historians imagine. A combination of fiscal deficits and military overstretch suggests that the United States may be the next empire on the precipice."



Collapse of the American Empire: swift, silent, certain

Historians warning of a sudden 'thief at night,' an 'accelerating car crash':

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-rise-and-certain-fall-of-the-american-empire-2010-03-09

 

[Skeptic]

What, AGAIN?

 

[drkitten]

Will the collapse of the US empire take decades or will it be "swift, silent, certain".

 

[NWO Sentryman]

It's a tad apocalyptic and suggests that billions would die

 

[JihadJane]

It's a tad apocalyptic and suggests that billions would die

How do you think it will end?

 

[Ziggurat]

The US empire already ended. We haven't been an empire since shortly after the Spanish-American War. What we are now is a hegemony. The tired old agitprop about empires used to condemn the colonial actions of Europe in the 19th and early 20th century isn't nearly so useful against the US now when one recognizes the difference.

 

[Region Rat]

What, we have an Empire now?

Isn't an Empire supposed to have an Emperor?

Who is ours?

But it does explain how the US got the most medals in the Winter Olympics.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Will the collapse of the US empire take decades or will it be "swift, silent, certain".

What US Empire? It doesn't have one.

 

[JihadJane]

Isn't an Empire supposed to have an Emperor?

Do business empires have emperors?

The US empire is a corporate empire, backed up by the biggest military machine that the world has ever seen.

 

[Ziggurat]

Will the collapse of the US empire take decades or will it be "swift, silent, certain".

That article is crap. It's basically just a recounting of a series of paintings, with a few comments about how those paintings are supposed to relate to today. But those comments make little sense. For example:
"Today's high-tech relentless news cycle, suggests that our 21st century world is a far bloodier return to savagery. "
It can suggest whatever the hell it wants to, but that's simply not true. Global violence is in decline, not on the rise. The author's perception of news coverage can't change that reality.

As for the actual "fall" part, note how it happens in the painting: an invading army. Whatever you might want to argue about any coming decline in America's power or influence, we don't face invasion by any army. No army is even a candidate for that. And even if you want to take that "invading army" more figuratively, the author still doesn't even bother to suggest what forces might play that role of providing the push for collapse. Why doesn't he? Probably because he can't think of any plausible answers.

 

[Ziggurat]

Do business empires have emperors?

Business empires are not empires. Just like ring worm is not a worm.

 

[JihadJane]

"... Most great empires have a nominal central authority -- either a hereditary emperor or an elected president -- but in practice the power of any individual ruler is a function of the network of economic, social and political relations over which he or she presides. As such, empires exhibit many of the characteristics of other complex adaptive systems -- including the tendency to move from stability to instability quite suddenly.


...


If empires are complex systems that sooner or later succumb to sudden and catastrophic malfunctions, what are the implications for the United States today? First, debating the stages of decline may be a waste of time -- it is a precipitous and unexpected fall that should most concern policymakers and citizens. Second, most imperial falls are associated with fiscal crises. Alarm bells should therefore be ringing very loudly indeed as the United States contemplates a deficit for 2010 of more than $1.5 trillion -- about 11% of GDP, the biggest since World War II."


- Niall Ferguson

America, the fragile empire

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/28/opinion/la-oe-ferguson28-2010feb28

 

[JihadJane]

Business empires are not empires. Just like ring worm is not a worm.

Why is there a US military presence in 70 % of the world’s countries.

What is being protected?.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Why is there a US military presence in 70 % of the world’s countries.

What is being protected?.

That doesn't look like an argument that the US is really an empire. It looks like a distraction to avoid admitting the central assumption of the OP is invalid.

But I'm sure you would never do that, would you?

 

[Manopolus]

I hereby vote that we intelligently dismantle the U.S. law by law... creating a negative government body which systematically erases laws, paving the way for greater economic security.

This would solve the biggest problem.

But then, I'm not sure that we're on the verge of a complete collapse any more than we were in 1929.

 

[Loss Leader]

The US empire is a corporate empire, backed up by the biggest military machine that the world has ever seen.

So, you're just going to temporize on the definition of "empire" in order to keep your argument afloat?

If you want to say that the US is headed for destruction because it is behaving like other nations throughout history that were destroyed, you're going to have to be a lot more specific in your comparison.

Many empires through history controlled large foreign lands whose populations had no say in their own governance and who were considered not to be citizens of the empire even if they moved closer to the central government. Many empires found it almost impossible to effectively communicate with its most far-flung territories. And, of course, no empire in history has ever had anything like the economic resources of the US.

Please be specific in describing how the US is like empires that have failed and why the differences between the US and those empires won't matter.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Just curious, why was the article was linked twice in the OP?
And... has the author of said article ever studied the history of the US economy? I'm seeing no such familiarity given his arguments.

 

[MG1962]

Why is there a US military presence in 70 % of the world’s countries.

What is being protected?.

Embassies

 

[WildCat]

What, we have an Empire now?

Isn't an Empire supposed to have an Emperor?

Who is ours?

The identity of the Emperor will be revealed once Ron Paul is elected President. Then we will hang the Emperor, the REAL perps of the 9/11 attacks, and all the rest of their NWO henchmen.

/JihadJane mode

 

[Skeptic]

But then, I'm not sure that we're on the verge of a complete collapse any more than we were in 1929.

...and 1978

...and 1861

...and the 1890s

...and...

Every time there's an economic downturn, some people predict the coming, inevitable collapse of the USA.

While, of course, it might happen, it sounds funny coming from supporters of socialism (in the American sense of the word) or Communism (in the European sense of the word) -- an economic system which DID in fact collapse in dozens of countries, after causing the death of 100,000,000 and the enslavement of half the world.

Most of the folks predicting the imminent collapse of the USA were also promoters of that system as the world's future, or want it back (well, as long it's OTHER PEOPLE who live there -- they themselves are quite content living in the prosperity of the evil collapsing oppressive capitalistic empire) -- which shows you how much their predictions are worth.