Cold War II. Russia to play next

[theprestige]

IIRC, in 1983 an accidental nuclear exchange was narrowly avoided by a Soviet soldier against the directions that applied at the time. Let's hope the soldiers themselves keep using their common sense even if the big guys (both NATO and Russia) have long lost theirs.

Oh? What would you mark as the date that Russia lost its mind? What would you list as the top two or three most prominent outward indications that Russia has lost its mind?

 

[caveman1917]

At least it can be said of Russia's fifth columnists today that they are not Stalinists, only Putinists.

What fifth columnists would that be?

 

[The Atheist]

Obviously. That's why they started all these invasions after WWII. Vietnam, Korea, Nicaragua, Lebanon, Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq.
Didn't they censor pictures of coffins in their last 2 invasions?

Preaching to the converted with me, mate. My distaste for US hegemony and military tactics is well known and I do enjoy the irony of Russia's invasion of Ukraine being seen as "pure evil' while America's aren't.

That he does. He's a dangerous man that will need to be stopped eventually. I'd rather try to stop in Donbass than in Brandenburg, thank you very much.

McHrozni

Great idea.

Oh wait... we did pre-emptive warfare the other day - you must've missed it.

How do you propose to stop him?

Maybe a full-out nuclear attack on Russia?

Maybe "Peace-loving" Putin will be busy elsewhere, now that he's threatening Sweden if they join NATO?

Have you seen the nature of the "threat"?

Not very threatening.

I will probably get carded and a suspensiion but I have to say it.I think we have a professinal Putin apologist in our midst.

You won't get carded because nobody's going to report it, at least I would plead with readers not to report it, because the statement is nonsensical and it should stand as evidence of an absurd attack on a poster simply because he doesn't agree with you.

 

[caveman1917]

Oh? What would you mark as the date that Russia lost its mind? What would you list as the top two or three most prominent outward indications that Russia has lost its mind?

Nobody "lost their mind", it's a figure of speech for that the common-sense action of deescalation doesn't get taken as they're both locked in a cycle of escalation.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Oh? What would you mark as the date that Russia lost its mind? What would you list as the top two or three most prominent outward indications that Russia has lost its mind?

Invading Crimea?

 

[theprestige]

Nobody "lost their mind", it's a figure of speech for that the common-sense action of deescalation doesn't get taken as they're both locked in a cycle of escalation.

If pilots can make measured responses to challenges of their airspace by foreign aircraft, why not national governments. What's more, how can you tell that the current series of replies by NATO to Russia aren't actually part of the equivalent dance of measured responses?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Well, recently a Bear flew right up the Channel and North Sea through the busiest commercial airspace in Europe without warning, no flight plan, no permission, no Transponder. Flights had to be diverted and and delayed. That was never in the old rules. They have taken to changing course directly towards UK Airspace without warning, that was never in the old rules. They are getting more and more bold and daring. If they go on like they are then something bad will happen, the RAF will not let them intrude into UK Airspace, that's why they are intercepted.

 

[caveman1917]

Invading Crimea?

Here's the issue: the Crimeans wanted it and later voted for reunification. In as much as you're not arguing for a population to be forced to be part of a country against their will, all that's left as an argument is the simple fact of a military incursion. Given the circumstances (no legitimate national government in Ukraine, marauding gangs of "nationalists" running amok throughout the country), and the quite blatant hypocrisy given NATO's own track record regarding military attacks (much more devastating and much less welcomed by the population), it seems a pretty weak case.

Furthermore, in as much as we're talking about military attacks, the one by the new Ukrainian authorities on the regions where people voted for self-rule seems more relevant as those do not have the "welcomed by the population" property. Such as here in Mariupol in South-East Ukraine (which was liberated from self-rule by the Azov battalion and other formations in May 2014):

 

[caveman1917]

What's more, how can you tell that the current series of replies by NATO to Russia aren't actually part of the equivalent dance of measured responses?

Because I can remember which came first. It is also NATO (or rather NATO-aligned political factions in Ukraine) which is looking to gain territory in East-Ukraine, as can be seen by the extreme measures required to suppress dissent and rebellion in the parts of East-Ukraine that voted for self-rule but were later "liberated".

 

[theprestige]

Because I can remember which came first. It is also NATO (or rather NATO-aligned political factions in Ukraine) which is looking to gain territory in East-Ukraine, as can be seen by the extreme measures required to suppress dissent and rebellion in the parts of East-Ukraine that voted for self-rule but were later "liberated".

Are you saying it's NATO's fault that events in the Ukraine precipitated the current crisis?

 

[Andy_Ross]

By your measure if Yorkshire decided to become independent of the UK and a paramilitary force started to seize govt buildings and attack military bases in Yorkshire the British Govt should just do nothing and accept the situation.
So there goes the rule of Law and the concept of any kind of nation state or sovereignty.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Heck, just keep the RAF on the ground and let them Bears cruise wherever they want. Putting up an interception every time they encroach is so provocative.

 

[caveman1917]

Are you saying it's NATO's fault that events in the Ukraine precipitated the current crisis?

NATO, or rather the US, made the first move by replacing the Ukrainian government with their preferred version. Widely despised in East-Ukraine (most so in Crimea, which the Russians quickly occupied), people there voted for self-rule, and were then attacked by the Ukrainian military (again in cooperation with the US) and associated armed "nationalist" formations.

 

[caveman1917]

By your measure if Yorkshire decided to become independent of the UK and a paramilitary force started to seize govt buildings and attack military bases in Yorkshire the British Govt should just do nothing and accept the situation.
So there goes the rule of Law and the concept of any kind of nation state or sovereignty.

Try this: The Scots use paramilitary forces to seize and overthrow the British Govt, and institute an ideology of "anti-Welsh nationalism". As a consequence the Welsh vote for self-rule as their local govt buildings get seized, after which the Scottish nationalists use the British army they now control to assault the Welsh population in response. Parts of the British army defect and/or refuse to open fire on civilians, after which the Scottish nationalists use their own "volunteer battalions" to do the task.

 

[Andy_Ross]

You live in a strange world.

 

[caveman1917]

You live in a strange world.

Yes, it's the one called "evidence-based".

 

[dudalb]

Nobody "lost their mind", it's a figure of speech for that the common-sense action of deescalation doesn't get taken as they're both locked in a cycle of escalation.

So "deescalation" is the new term for "appeasement"?

 

[dudalb]

Yes, it's the one called "evidence-based".

 

[caveman1917]

Not really, no.

 

[dudalb]

Not really, no.

Gving the way you hand wave away all evidence the Putin is engaged in aggresion in the Ukraine.....