Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[ben m]

This is from our friends at DIA in late 2009.
http://www.prometeon.it/download/DIA_2009_11_Tech_Forecast.pdf

Yes, that document was written by Pam Mosier-Boss, longtime cold-fusion crackpot. It says what you expect a cold-fusion crackpot to say, and cites all the usual crappy and irreproducible experiments.

http://theenergycollective.com/clea...hard- stuebi-et-al/112566/weak-force-key-lenr

I've commented on this repeatedly. Widom-Larsen "theory" is completely moronic from beginning to end. Widom-Larsen are trying to hypothesize that "new weak physics" makes neutrons, then the neutrons behave normally, which generates invisible power. In the process, they casually mention neutron captures on nuclei that are known not to capture neutrons; they draw endothermic reactions and mislabel them as exothermic; they draw unstable nuclei and mislabel them as stable. It's awful. The fact that this still gets cited is a good illustration of how gullible the remaining cold-fusioneers really are.

 

[ben m]

What about isotopic changes after reactions, such as Mizuno's work?
Mizuno, T. et al., Denki Kagaku Oyobi Kogyo Butsuri Kagaku [Electrochemistry and Engineering Physics] 64, 1160, 1996a

What, you're going to go through one paper at a time? The DOE did a big review of this. Twice. There's nothing there.

Mizuno's paper looks like he did some crappy electroplating onto his electrode, stuck it into a crappy spectrometer, and spent about thirty seconds of crappy thought into the results, which he reports with no error bars.

 

[Reality Check]

I thought that I did describe it.

You did describe it ("a photo of an ECat undergoing a destructive test cycle") but what you did not do is cite the actual running of an ECat with no input that was that "destructive test cycle".

Instead what we have is what looks like a destructive test cycle of a ceramic container by pumping in more mains power to the resistive coil until (maybe) the ceramic container melts.

And now we have a fantasy that you can tell how much mains power is available just from a random image on the web !

Wow, pteridine - a coil at 1000-1200 C manages to heat a ceramic container to about 800 C. Amazing ground-braking science !

 

[Reality Check]

I suggested thermite as a possibility.

Well so long as we are doing random fantasies about a random image on the web, pteridine:
* a possibility is that a laser beam heated it up.
* a possibility is that the container has just returned from the Sun.
* a possibility is that there is a coil (as in the ECat design is I recall right!) that has been heated up to red hot temperature.
* a possibility is that the image is totally faked.
* a possibility is that the image is partially faked.

What we know for certain is that you have no idea what is in the image or what is happening, B]pteridine[/B], because you have no citation to a description of the image.

 

[Reality Check]

OK. It's just an electrical heater in a tin can.

Not tin, pteridine. The ECat scam apparatus is ceramic AFAIK.

 

[bruto]

Another one would have to be an oxygen hose.

No. You can get plenty of heat from acetylene and air. You can't weld with it but it's a common plumbers' torch setup, quite enough to get something red hot.

Of course a toaster can do that too.

 

[Craig B]

An interesting communication from Andrea Rossi on an e-cat enthusiast website Jan 12, 2914.

TO THE READERS, IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
TODAY A BLOGGER INFORMED ME ABOUT THIS FRAUDOLENT WEBSITE:
http://WWW.ECATSCHWEITZ.COM
THEY WRITE THAT THEY CAN SELL OUR 1 MW PLANTS AND THAT THEY ARE OUR LICENSEES.
WE DO NOT ABSOLUTELY KNOW WHO THEY ARE, I NEVER SPOKE OR WROTE WITH THEM, I DO NOT AT ALL KNOW THEM AND THEY HAVE NEVER SIGNED WITH US ANY KIND OF CONTRACT. WHAT THEY WRITE IN THEIR WEBSITE IS FALSE AND IS A FRAUD. THEY ARE FRAUDOLENTLY USING OUR TRADE MARK, WITHOUT ANY KIND OF AUTHORIZATION.PLEASE DO NOT DEAL WITH THEM TO BUY ANY OF OUR PRODUCTS, DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY SUM OF MONEY BECAUSE THEY ARE A FRAUD.
IN GENERAL: TO BE SURE YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN AUTHORIZED LICENSEE OF US, YOU CAN CONTACT ANYTIME
INFO@LEONARDOCORP1996.COM
AND WE WILL CONFIRM OR NOT THE VALIDITY OF THE PROPOSAL YOU RECEIVED.
WE ALREADY HAVE PASSED THIS ISSUE ON TO OUR ATTORNEYS.
WARM REGARDS,
ANDREA ROSSI, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF LEONARDO CORPORATION
p.s.
WE EVENTUALLY ANALYSED MORE CAREFULLY THE WEBSITE AND HAVE SEEN THAT ITS CONTACT REFERS TO A FORMER LICENSEE OF US, WHOSE LICENSE IS TERMINATED. THE LICENSEE HAS COMMUNICATED US ON JANUARY 13 THAT THIS ALL IS A MISTAKE, THE WEBSITE WAS OLD AND THAT HE WILL CANCEL IT FROM THE INTERNET AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WE APPRECIATE HIS REACTION AND CONSIDER CLOSED THE ISSUE.
A.R.

http://rossilivecat.com
So while there are no technical developments to report, or any account of the performance of e-cats allegedly already sold, "licensing" and the like activities are in full swing. "Products" are on sale, and money is being solicited from buyers. But Rossi is having problems distinguishing between his authorised licencees and fraudulent ones. A somewhat disquieting picture of the current state of play. It's pretty evident that the heated cylinder stunt was devised as a sort of firework display to impress potential purchasers of licences and products.

 

[catsmate]

What about isotopic changes after reactions, such as Mizuno's work?
Mizuno, T. et al., Denki Kagaku Oyobi Kogyo Butsuri Kagaku [Electrochemistry and Engineering Physics] 64, 1160, 1996a

As I said, absolutely not evidence of anything happening.

 

[Aepervius]

1568 watts of input power, alone?

With standard 220V it is only 6 to 7 Ampere. Normal gauge cable as seen in the video would have no problem carry that amount. And there is 3 in , 3 out if i count correctly.

 

[Aepervius]

Oh, right, it was 1600W expected from radiation and 400W expected from convection. 2000W. (Both calculations were incompetent, but let's call it 2000W anyway.)

Do you find it hard to imagine? Why? Italian wall sockets carry 220V and are rated for at least 10A (2200W) and sometimes 16A (3520W).

(ETA: American wall sockets are typically 15A, 120V = 1800W, but it's not hard to go higher. You can put a whole lot of power through an appliance line cord, even an underrated one, running in open air like that.)

My own electrical feed, a *residential one*, allows for 220V, up to 35A. My neighbors have 25A feeds.

2kW is nothing really. Petrydine objection are the usual one out of ignorance so far as I can see.

 

[Aepervius]

Not tin, pteridine. The ECat scam apparatus is ceramic AFAIK.

IIRC, it is a few millimeter of steel, with a centimeter of aluminium oxyde ceramic, might have even be construed as rubine ceramic.

ETA: not rubine but corundum. Outer shell of silicon nitride corundum inside 1cm. Steel 3 mm inside.

 

[Aepervius]

An interesting communication from Andrea Rossi on an e-cat enthusiast website Jan 12, 2914.http://rossilivecat.com
So while there are no technical developments to report, or any account of the performance of e-cats allegedly already sold, "licensing" and the like activities are in full swing. "Products" are on sale, and money is being solicited from buyers. But Rossi is having problems distinguishing between his authorised licencees and fraudulent ones. A somewhat disquieting picture of the current state of play. It's pretty evident that the heated cylinder stunt was devised as a sort of firework display to impress potential purchasers of licences and products.

I expected sooner or later we would see money change hands. Rossi as his previously fraudulent life and judicial case shows, is not in for the fun, he is in for the mullah, the dough, the greenies, the lincoln.

basically this is the same scam scenario, as usual, pretend to have a discovery, pretend to do demonstration of it, then ask for investor/licensee, make money, then either get found or retire. Still the same scenario as that guy which scammed money with a big air powered container ball, and air powered tools back in the 19th century (the "keely" recipes for scam).

 

[tsig]

I expected sooner or later we would see money change hands. Rossi as his previously fraudulent life and judicial case shows, is not in for the fun, he is in for the mullah, the dough, the greenies, the lincoln.

basically this is the same scam scenario, as usual, pretend to have a discovery, pretend to do demonstration of it, then ask for investor/licensee, make money, then either get found or retire. Still the same scenario as that guy which scammed money with a big air powered container ball, and air powered tools back in the 19th century (the "keely" recipes for scam).

The only thing perpetual is the scam:

John Ernst Worrell Keely (September 3, 1837 – November 18, 1898) was a US inventor from Philadelphia who claimed to have discovered a new motive power which was originally described as "vaporic" or "etheric" force, and later as an unnamed force based on "vibratory sympathy", by which he produced "interatomic ether" from water and air. Despite numerous requests from the stockholders of the Keely Motor Company, which had been established to produce a practicable motor based on his work, he consistently refused to reveal to them the principles on which his motor operated, and also repeatedly refused demands to produce a marketable product by claiming that he needed to perform more experiments.

He secured substantial investments from many people, among whom was John Jacob Astor


Sound familiar?

 

[Aepervius]

Yep that's what i call "the keely recipe", used by "klein" (?) "steorn", "blp" and many others.

 

[trebor]

Sound familiar?

Its uncanny, Rossi seems to be following the script perfectly.

 

[BenBurch]

1568 watts of input power, alone?

120 volts * 15 amps = 1800 watts. So a typically-fused household circuit can easily give you that much power.

 

[bruto]

Time to invest. First adopters always get razzed when things get cheap, but when you pop your first slice of nuclear toast, the crowd will go wild.

 

[Horatius]

And in the latest news:

On January 24, 2014, perhaps pressured by their outing by E-CatWorld.com, Industrial Heat LLC published a press release announcing they had

"acquired the rights to Andrea Rossi's Italian low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) technology, the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat). A primary goal of the company is to make the technology widely available, because of its potential impact on air pollution and carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels and biomass.

"Mr. Vaughn confirmed IH acquired the intellectual property and licensing rights to Rossi's LENR device after an independent committee of European scientists conducted two multi-day tests at Rossi's facilities in Italy.
"The published report by the European committee concluded, "Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources" [referring to energy output per unit of mass]. The report is available online at http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913. In addition, performance validation tests were conducted in the presence of IH personnel and certified by an independent expert.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Industrial_Heat,_LLC


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology-241853361.html


Note that the published report from Europe they mention has already been discussed here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9234286#post9234286

 

[barehl]

Does anyone have any links to skeptical articles on this particular claim or Andrea Rossi generally?

You don't need science to disprove this; you can use ordinary common sense. The article says, "These modules should begin shipping by the end of October, 2011."

That was more than three years ago. If the device worked, it would have made international news. Perhaps this is appropriate since the two gentlemen in question are from the University of Baloney.

 

[Craig B]

That was more than three years ago. If the device worked, it would have made international news. Perhaps this is appropriate since the two gentlemen in question are from the University of Baloney.

Believed to be the oldest in the world, founded in 1088.

In 1888 the eighth centennial of the University was celebrated, with a grand ceremony where all the universities of the world convened in Bologna to honour the mother of universities, representing their common roots and ideals of progress and tolerance. The ceremony became an international festival of studies.