Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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pteridine said:
Here http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XuKgtxpqL9U/UYQSyPJP-OI/AAAAAAAAJYI/96mRUBJjs1w/s1600/hot-cat.JPG is a photo of an ECat undergoing a destructive test cycle.
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Oh dear, pteridine, you do not know that if you heat up a ceramic container by pouring electricity into resistive coils within it then it glows red :jaw-dropp!
Citing a random image from the internet is stupid unless you can provide an actual source describing it. But this looks like one of the ECats that was used in that discredited "experiment" that showed noting about them. It may even be operating normally. i.e. being heated by the mains supply!
 
So, will he sell me an ECAT cell yet?

I have this idea that it would be a great way to make a boiler-less live steam locomotive.

But of course it would have to be real for that to happen.

And real means you can buy one, plug it in and see it do every megajoule of work it is rated for.

I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
BenBurch said:
So, will he sell me an ECAT cell yet?

I have this idea that it would be a great way to make a boiler-less live steam locomotive.

But of course it would have to be real for that to happen.

And real means you can buy one, plug it in and see it do every megajoule of work it is rated for.

I'm not going to hold my breath.
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I hear they'll become available for sure in 2013.
 
Reality Check said:
Oh dear, pteridine, you do not know that if you heat up a ceramic container by pouring electricity into resistive coils within it then it glows red :jaw-dropp!
Citing a random image from the internet is stupid unless you can provide an actual source describing it. But this looks like one of the ECats that was used in that discredited "experiment" that showed noting about them. It may even be operating normally. i.e. being heated by the mains supply!
Click to expand...

I thought that I did describe it.
I would doubt that the "mains supply" as seen in the photo could provide the amount of power necessary to heat the unit to the extent seen. I'd estimate that the cylinder was at about 800 C and the hot spot was at 1000-1200 C.
 
pteridine said:
I thought that I did describe it.
I would doubt that the "mains supply" as seen in the photo could provide the amount of power necessary to heat the unit to the extent seen. I'd estimate that the cylinder was at about 800 C and the hot spot was at 1000-1200 C.
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It's one photo, if that convinces you, you're pretty gullible. For all we know, someone was holding a blowtorch on the unit right before the photo was snapped.
 
pteridine said:
I thought that I did describe it.
I would doubt that the "mains supply" as seen in the photo could provide the amount of power necessary to heat the unit to the extent seen. I'd estimate that the cylinder was at about 800 C and the hot spot was at 1000-1200 C.
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I've designed a furnace of approximately the same size as is seen in that photo, that reaches 1300oC running off only 100V. It plugs into the mains.
 
phunk said:
It's one photo, if that convinces you, you're pretty gullible. For all we know, someone was holding a blowtorch on the unit right before the photo was snapped.
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In my original post I asked if anyone thought it was faked. I suggested thermite as a possibility.
 
pteridine said:
I thought that I did describe it.
I would doubt that the "mains supply" as seen in the photo could provide the amount of power necessary to heat the unit to the extent seen. I'd estimate that the cylinder was at about 800 C and the hot spot was at 1000-1200 C.
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Nonsense. The Rossi-cohort paper---remember, these are people with the incentive to overestimate the power---claim that the glow registers as (with their characteristic neglect of significant figures or anything) 1568 Watts.

It's like a weak hairdryer or a strong electric tea kettle. Of course it can be supplied by an ordinary line cord.
 
Evilgiraffe said:
I've designed a furnace of approximately the same size as is seen in that photo, that reaches 1300oC running off only 100V. It plugs into the mains.
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Many small laboratory furnaces reach those temperatures plugging into the "mains." Usually, they are well insulated and take some time to get there. Having the entire assembly at 800-1000C dissipates a good deal more energy than a lab furnace and seems to require far more power than what might be provided through the cables visible in the photo.
 
ben m said:
Nonsense. The Rossi-cohort paper---remember, these are people with the incentive to overestimate the power---claim that the glow registers as (with their characteristic neglect of significant figures or anything) 1568 Watts.

It's like a weak hairdryer or a strong electric tea kettle. Of course it can be supplied by an ordinary line cord.
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1568 watts of input power, alone?
 
pteridine said:
Many small laboratory furnaces reach those temperatures plugging into the "mains." Usually, they are well insulated and take some time to get there. Having the entire assembly at 800-1000C dissipates a good deal more energy than a lab furnace and seems to require far more power than what might be provided through the cables visible in the photo.
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What if one of the "cables" in the photo was an acetyline hose?
 
pteridine said:
1568 watts of input power, alone?
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Oh, right, it was 1600W expected from radiation and 400W expected from convection. 2000W. (Both calculations were incompetent, but let's call it 2000W anyway.)

Do you find it hard to imagine? Why? Italian wall sockets carry 220V and are rated for at least 10A (2200W) and sometimes 16A (3520W).

(ETA: American wall sockets are typically 15A, 120V = 1800W, but it's not hard to go higher. You can put a whole lot of power through an appliance line cord, even an underrated one, running in open air like that.)
 
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ben m said:
Oh, right, it was 1600W expected from radiation and 400W expected from convection. 2000W. (Both calculations were incompetent, but let's call it 2000W anyway.)

Do you find it hard to imagine? Why? Italian wall sockets carry 220V and are rated for at least 10A (2200W) and sometimes 16A (3520W).
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The old-style three-bar electric fires pulled 3kW; UK/RoI sockets can deliver that, so 2kW isn't a problem.

pteridine said:
This is from our friends at DIA in late 2009.
http://www.prometeon.it/download/DIA_2009_11_Tech_Forecast.pdf

One of the problems with accepting the possibility of LENR is the inability of the physicists to propose a theory of operation. I'm posting this for those who can critique such things. Ben, this will be more in your ballpark than Federal Government contracting procedures. http://theenergycollective.com/clea...chard-stuebi-et-al/112566/weak-force-key-lenr
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No. The problems with cold fusion is that no-one has shown anything is happening.
 
ben m said:
Oh, right, it was 1600W expected from radiation and 400W expected from convection. 2000W. (Both calculations were incompetent, but let's call it 2000W anyway.)

Do you find it hard to imagine? Why? Italian wall sockets carry 220V and are rated for at least 10A (2200W) and sometimes 16A (3520W).
Click to expand...

OK. It's just an electrical heater in a tin can.
 
catsmate1 said:
The old-style three-bar electric fires pulled 3kW; UK/RoI sockets can deliver that, so 2kW isn't a problem.


No. The problems with cold fusion is that no-one has shown anything is happening.
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What about isotopic changes after reactions, such as Mizuno's work?
Mizuno, T. et al., Denki Kagaku Oyobi Kogyo Butsuri Kagaku [Electrochemistry and Engineering Physics] 64, 1160, 1996a
 
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