Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[Alcassin]

Where is Defkalion testing? Any info about that? It should have taken place July/August.

 

[Craig B]

Where is Defkalion testing? Any info about that? It should have taken place July/August.

They have done a few tests, but neither the names of those performing the tests, nor the results of the said tests, have been revealed. The forum on their website is still closed. In spite of all their boasting about saving the Greek economy, they have decided to abandon Greece, and transfer their operation to Canada. So they say. Vancouver, if you want to believe it. This will unfortunately be the cause of "delay" in starting mass production of their mysterious contraption.

Defkalion's "Canada" must be located near the "Sweden" to which Rossi announced that he was moving, after the disagreeable visit from the Florida Board of Radiation Control.

 

[pteridine]

Defkalion's "Canada" must be located near the "Sweden" to which Rossi announced that he was moving, after the disagreeable visit from the Florida Board of Radiation Control.

If Rossi has nothing and "cold fusion", proclaimed as bad science and not permitted to be patented, doesn't exist, why would anyone worry? There is nothing radioactive going into the reactor and nothing radioactive coming out, so there can't be any nuclear reaction occurring, can there? The prospect of not controlling probably irritates the board no end, as controlling makes for full board employment, but if that is the case, there is no radiation for the board to control.

 

[Kid Eager]

If Rossi has nothing and "cold fusion", proclaimed as bad science and not permitted to be patented, doesn't exist, why would anyone worry? There is nothing radioactive going into the reactor and nothing radioactive coming out, so there can't be any nuclear reaction occurring, can there? The prospect of not controlling probably irritates the board no end, as controlling makes for full board employment, but if that is the case, there is no radiation for the board to control.

but Rossi must act as if there is, or his scam is laid wide open.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

If Rossi has nothing and "cold fusion", proclaimed as bad science and not permitted to be patented, doesn't exist, why would anyone worry? There is nothing radioactive going into the reactor and nothing radioactive coming out, so there can't be any nuclear reaction occurring, can there?

Well, so you'd think. Of course, Rossi's patent application specifically mentions 511 keV gamma radiation, and all of the proposed fusion/fission processes do produce high-energy gammas. Not to mention Rossi's casual assertion that he has a low-cost means of separating out all of the nickel isotope that will produce long-term radioactivity.

The prospect of not controlling probably irritates the board no end, as controlling makes for full board employment, but if that is the case, there is no radiation for the board to control.

The prospect of a rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated without first being cleared by some sort of board ought to do more than irritate you. It ought to scare you silly.

 

[Kid Eager]

<snip>


The prospect of a rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated without first being cleared by some sort of board ought to do more than irritate you. It ought to scare you silly.

+1 ...and if not, why not.

 

[Craig B]

The prospect of a rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated without first being cleared by some sort of board ought to do more than irritate you. It ought to scare you silly.

Never mind. It's quite good at boiling water and emitting puffs of steam, as long as it stays connected to the local power supply. My aunt's electric kettle can do that, with nary a gamma ray in sight.

 

[Dancing David]

Never mind. It's quite good at boiling water and emitting puffs of steam, as long as it stays connected to the local power supply. My aunt's electric kettle can do that, with nary a gamma ray in sight.

I want a bench test and still water bath on your grandma's kettle.

IT COULD SAVE THE WORLD, WE MUST INVESTIGATE!

Why does mainstream power and science suppress the tea kettle, they suppressed Einstein and Galileo as well!

 

[Horatius]

Well, so you'd think. Of course, Rossi's patent application specifically mentions 511 keV gamma radiation, and all of the proposed fusion/fission processes do produce high-energy gammas. Not to mention Rossi's casual assertion that he has a low-cost means of separating out all of the nickel isotope that will produce long-term radioactivity.

It's amusing isn't it? If we say they're full of crap, we're "ignoring real science", or even "suppressing the truth", but if we take their claims at face value, then all of a sudden we're "control freaks" who are "trying to protect our cushy jobs".


It never even occurs to them that we're actually what we say we are: open minded individuals who, why we don't currently believe them, are willing to consider their evidence, since the possibility of success would be so cool. That that "possibility" never actually pans out is hardly our fault.

No, instead of going ahead and proving their claims, they prefer to snipe at us.

 

[catsmate]

If Rossi has nothing and "cold fusion", proclaimed as bad science and not permitted to be patented, doesn't exist, why would anyone worry? There is nothing radioactive going into the reactor and nothing radioactive coming out, so there can't be any nuclear reaction occurring, can there? The prospect of not controlling probably irritates the board no end, as controlling makes for full board employment, but if that is the case, there is no radiation for the board to control.

Inconveniently for you, Rossi's other cheerleaders/dupes and believers in this nonsense in general, both Rossi's previous statements and his patent applications do claim nuclear reactions are happening in his magic water heater.

 

[phunk]

If Rossi has nothing and "cold fusion", proclaimed as bad science and not permitted to be patented, doesn't exist, why would anyone worry? There is nothing radioactive going into the reactor and nothing radioactive coming out, so there can't be any nuclear reaction occurring, can there? The prospect of not controlling probably irritates the board no end, as controlling makes for full board employment, but if that is the case, there is no radiation for the board to control.

Who is worried?

 

[pteridine]

Well, so you'd think. Of course, Rossi's patent application specifically mentions 511 keV gamma radiation, and all of the proposed fusion/fission processes do produce high-energy gammas. Not to mention Rossi's casual assertion that he has a low-cost means of separating out all of the nickel isotope that will produce long-term radioactivity.



The prospect of a rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated without first being cleared by some sort of board ought to do more than irritate you. It ought to scare you silly.

A rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated or open sourced in spite of bureaucratic control attempts would be bothersome. No isotope diffusion facilities needed; common metals [the effect may be general, more or less] and hydrogen are all that are needed. The posters on this board that are so certain in their knowledge that Rossi has nothing can't possibly be worried about this, and shouldn't even bother posting. Interestingly, they post with regularity. I have followed the posts and find them to be pretty much "piling on"; Dancing David and a few others seem particularly adept at this and fire off one liners regularly in attempts at humor or seeking group acceptance.
Are the closed-minded skeptics all reassuring themselves that 'this can't be' through some group exercise of attack and ridicule? Early nay-sayers [N. Lewis and R. Garwin come to mind] used their reputations as scientists to squelch any further open investigation. H-Bomb Garwin likely for the hot-fusion program at U Rochester and Lewis for just being his arrogant self.
Fortunately, scientists such as Dennis Bushnell at NASA have no fear of exploring the possibility that such reactions exist and do not publically ridicule those working on LENR. Florida's Board may have something to do, after all.

 

[Acleron]

A rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated or open sourced in spite of bureaucratic control attempts would be bothersome. No isotope diffusion facilities needed; common metals [the effect may be general, more or less] and hydrogen are all that are needed. The posters on this board that are so certain in their knowledge that Rossi has nothing can't possibly be worried about this, and shouldn't even bother posting. Interestingly, they post with regularity. I have followed the posts and find them to be pretty much "piling on"; Dancing David and a few others seem particularly adept at this and fire off one liners regularly in attempts at humor or seeking group acceptance.Are the closed-minded skeptics all reassuring themselves that 'this can't be' through some group exercise of attack and ridicule? Early nay-sayers [N. Lewis and R. Garwin come to mind] used their reputations as scientists to squelch any further open investigation. H-Bomb Garwin likely for the hot-fusion program at U Rochester and Lewis for just being his arrogant self.
Fortunately, scientists such as Dennis Bushnell at NASA have no fear of exploring the possibility that such reactions exist and do not publically ridicule those working on LENR. Florida's Board may have something to do, after all.

Gotta do something while waiting for the evidence.

 

[Dancing David]

I have followed the posts and find them to be pretty much "piling on"; Dancing David and a few others seem particularly adept at this and fire off one liners regularly in attempts at humor or seeking group acceptance.

I shall be blunt and plain.

You have no data, you have no evidence.

You never have, you can always bring real evidence and post it, so far Rossi hasn't.

You seem to have a problem with that. I am open minded, but there is no credible evidence.

Dec 1, 2011 has come and gone.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

A rogue nuclear process which would be widely disseminated or open sourced in spite of bureaucratic control attempts would be bothersome. No isotope diffusion facilities needed; common metals [the effect may be general, more or less] and hydrogen are all that are needed.

All that are needed to do what? I've mentioned this before, but it was quite a while ago, so I'll toss it out again. An ecat would make a fabulous terrorist device. You strip out the cooling mechanisms, leaving only the core and a heater. This, combined with a small battery and a timer, would be located in any public area, producing massive quantities of gamma radiation. And if you replace the magically isotope-depleted nickel with regular nickel, you get a highly radioactive remnant. The package would be small and essentially undetectable until it was triggered (no precusor radiation). The number of people actually killed would be small, but the effect would be terrifying, since the radiation exposure would be unnoticed at the time.

The posters on this board that are so certain in their knowledge that Rossi has nothing can't possibly be worried about this, and shouldn't even bother posting.

Two responses.

First, yes. If you don't believe a phenomenon exists, there is no use in worrying about a misuse of that non-existent phenomenon. The question really ought to be, why don''t the pro-Rossi folks worry about it? They're the ones who believe in the possibility.

Second, that would include me in the anti-Rossi camp. Just because I can follow a concept to its logical conclusion doesn't mean I have to accept the concept. I was first introduced to the ecat with the news of the first public demonstration, and upon reading the Swedish report it was instantly and obviously apparent that Rossi was lying. Reading the patent application confirmed it. Observing Rossi's behavior since then has confirmed it in spades.

But hey, I could be wrong. Regardless, the implications of Rossi's claims remain.

Interestingly, they post with regularity. I have followed the posts and find them to be pretty much "piling on"; Dancing David and a few others seem particularly adept at this and fire off one liners regularly in attempts at humor or seeking group acceptance.

That's not seeking group acceptance. It's trying to cope with a quite remarkable level of self-delusion and selective inattention on the part of the pro-Rossi camp. In the face of such determined levels of irrationality, one-liners are really the only realistic response.

Are the closed-minded skeptics all reassuring themselves that 'this can't be' through some group exercise of attack and ridicule? Early nay-sayers [N. Lewis and R. Garwin come to mind] used their reputations as scientists to squelch any further open investigation. H-Bomb Garwin likely for the hot-fusion program at U Rochester and Lewis for just being his arrogant self.
Fortunately, scientists such as Dennis Bushnell at NASA have no fear of exploring the possibility that such reactions exist and do not publically ridicule those working on LENR. Florida's Board may have something to do, after all.

Aaaand we have the segue. Suddenly, we're not talking about Rossi, we're talking about the LENR concept in general. And in fact, that's what you were talking about all along.

Oh, and the BRC is unlikely to have anything to do as long as Rossi continues to lie. Their remit does not extend to the investigation of fraud.

 

[Aepervius]

I shall be blunt and plain.

You have no data, you have no evidence.

You never have, you can always bring real evidence and post it, so far Rossi hasn't.

You seem to have a problem with that. I am open minded, but there is no credible evidence.

Dec 1, 2011 has come and gone.

and Dec 1, 2012 is coming with great stride.
Oh my i even see it around the corner.
And yet the data eternaly seem to hide,
There is as much as there was past december.

 

[Reality Check]

Fortunately, scientists such as Dennis Bushnell at NASA have no fear of exploring the possibility that such reactions exist and do not publically ridicule those working on LENR.

So who is Dennis Bushnell?
He is a mechanical engineer who has had a long career at NASA. He is quoted in the press as being an LENR supporter. This is his personal opinion and nothing to do with NASA.

He is also a gullible person because he supported Andrea Rossi's E-Cat in May 2011. That interview demonstrates Dennis Bushnell has a weak grasp of the scientific process. He says that there are theories to explain LENR and thus LENR exists (without any credible evidence from experiments). He has it backward. You can have theories about something but they are just hypotheses until there is empirical evidence to select one of them as valid.

 

[pteridine]

It is obvious to anyone that the Ecat may make a terrorist device. You don't know who worries about such an event.
Yes, you could be wrong. All skeptics should state this somewhere just in case this thing works.

 

[WhatRoughBeast]

It is obvious to anyone that the Ecat may make a terrorist device.

Really? So why doesn't anybody talk about it? And if it is obvious to everyone, how can anyone justify large-scale distribution? And if so, why did you write

The prospect of not controlling probably irritates the board no end, as controlling makes for full board employment,

You don't know who worries about such an event.

Well, it's pretty clear that Rossi doesn't.

Yes, you could be wrong. All skeptics should state this somewhere just in case this thing works.

And where do Rossi's supporters state that they could be wrong?

 

[pteridine]

I have stated all along that the ECat may not work as claimed. Many on here petulantly demand proof that satisfies their own personal criteria and, if not instantly gratified, immedately conclude that Rossi is a fraud.
I have recommended that you wait for a public demonstration by a disinterested third party and examine the evidence before concluding that there is nothing here. Many delight in making snide comments or attempt humor [e.g., the electric tea kettle 'joke'] rather than to patiently await results. There need be no rush to conclude anything.
I am convinced that the phenomenon, now referred to as LENR, is worthy of further study.