Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Craig B said:
What concerns me the most (apart from the traditional Wright brothers reference on page 9 of the Defkalion paper - at least they leave Galileo's ghost in peace!)
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And him an Italian; perhaps the Crackpot Index needs a revision.

Craig B said:
What concerns me the most (apart from the traditional Wright brothers reference on page 9 of the Defkalion paper - at least they leave Galileo's ghost in peace!) is the marketing strategy outlined on page 7: Defkalion shall sell the rights to manufacture its products (presumably the bolt-on "Hyperion" components) while the e-cat "kernel" is manufactured by as yet unrecruited and untrained workers in as yet unbuilt units in Xanthi, Thrace.
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It gives Rossi and co. someone else to spread the blame onto when no magic generators are actually delivered.
Craig B said:
Interesting that Defkalion should use the name Hyperion for its power units, because there's already a company, Hyperion Power Generation, with a comparable product - mini nuclear reactors - and very similar motives and aspirations:
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This appears to be a standard MO for Rossi's frauds; parasite off the name of an existing company.
Craig B said:
For more sceptical views of the Defkalion announcement, please see the comments at: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/defkalion-green-technologies-new.html
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I like the first comment:
So I heard about this Rossi fellow through the grapevine and have spent all morning reading up on him and his invention. Sadly, this seems like a pretty obvious scam. Incredible claims that require a revision of well established scientific theory to make sense, a history of failed inventions, unnecessary lack of verifiable evidence, strange discussion of 'self destruction' mechanisms to protect the design, refusal to allow study by other scientists, indirect solicitation of investment through this Defkalion company, data that doesn't seem to make any sense, shady demonstrations... the list goes on. I am really confused regarding how any company could invest so heavily in something so suspect, it makes me wonder if these Defkalion people represent a legitimate operation.

This seems like textbook fraud. Defkalion collects the cash, something goes horribly wrong, the invention is indefinitely postponed until Rossi et al return a majority of the investment except a small portion that would of course have already been spent. I hope this guy ends up in prison.
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An excellent summary of the situation.
 
BeAChooser post #1206 has informed us, quoting (with seeming approval) Rossi writing in "freeenergytimes"
The only money that has been risked is my money. This way I have cut all the voices about this guy is trying to make some trick, etc, etc. ... The rules are very clear here. Money will change hands only if the plant will work. No good work, no money for anybody and a loss of money for me.
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which has been the main argument that this isn't a scam. In the light of the Defkalion announcements, are you sticking with that, BeAChooser?
 
Crawdaddy said:
I am well aware of these threads... The person quoted in the post you linked was crawdaddy (that guy is a douche)!

These results are very interesting but are by no means conclusive or overwhelming at their present level of sophistication. I am following them with great interest.

The discussion you linked to is however an excellent example rational skepticism at it's best. The same cannot be said for this thread.
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I guess, but you seemed to have the same problem in that thread as you are having in this one.

When someone calls you out on a claim you have made that is erroneous, you simply ignore it. The main one being the "quality of steam" argument that you also make here.

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2829&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=2805
chrismb said:
The key thing I am trying to show is what 25g/min of emitted vapour looks like coming out of a pipe. Rossi is claiming 7l/hr, which is about 5 times the quantity of emitted water vapour than I am showing here.

So the question is, does Rossi's tube [top picture] look like it is emitting 5 times the quantity that is shown being emitted in my demo [bottom picture]?
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crawdaddy said:
Don't get me wrong, I am totally on board with your experiment and appreciate the effort you are putting into it, but without proper measurement of the input energy you can't compare your steam to Rossi's because dry steam is invisible.
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chismb said:
Well, that might be the case but that even though air is invisible, if it is moving you can see which direction it pushes the clouds!!!

Actually, it seems to me to be a bit obvious that my steam is drier - at the immediate exit of the tube there is no visible steam in mine, yet there is visible steam in Rossi's tube. If Rossi had a pile of invisible steam coming out with it, wouldn't it push that visible steam straight out of the pipe rather than it drifiting upwards?
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The quality of steam argument is not a valid argument because if this were the case, the speed of the visible steam coming out of Rossi's hose would be at a higher velocity. If you take out the "quality of steam" argument, than you are left once again with the conclusion that Rossi was being dishonest about the volume of water entering his unit (which CaveDave pointed out how this was possible using the pumping unit).

It is also not correct to say that there is not enough data in the Krivit demo to come to any conclusions. There are three pieces of evidence that we do have of the demo that are very important for making a conclusion (these are all included in the quotes from the Polywell discussion):

1) you can see Rossi pouring water out of the tube before pulling it out of the wall.
2) Rossi holds the pipe between his fingers for several seconds which would not have been possible if the amount of steam that Rossi claims was accurate and honest.
3) Rossi's claim of 100C at the end of the pipe which would require a 100% insulated pipe is physically impossible. Which is yet another dishonest claim form Rossi.


When you add in the Nytek video where you can clearly hear condensate bubbling in the pipe, Rossi's history of dishonest scams, and the clear steps of scam-like behavior from Defkalion, you are left with no data whatsoever that shows any of Rossi's claims to be real, and an enormous mountain of data that shows it to be faked.
 
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Crawdaddy said:
Reality check

There is a giant thread filled with links to all the experiments and data available to date on the net. You are posting on it.
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Crawdaddy

I have read through this giant thread and seen
  • patent applications
  • web site citations
  • thread citations
and lots of problems with those
A badly done experiment may as well never have been done.
Charitably we might say that Rossi has been fooled by the crude instrumentation and lack of calibration. But the latest news about soliciting money for this non-result suggests other motivations such as fraud.
 
Here is a pretty good new video that just came out on Rossi's device.

While I am pretty much 100% convinced that Rossi's device is fake based on all of the evidence that I have seen that points that way, this was an interesting story, and there were two parts that I thought were the most interesting.

- 11:00 to 11:50 shows renderings of the insides of the E-Cat machine (this was particularly interesting because I have never seen renderings of the device before)

- 30:30 to 32:35, talks about Defkalon, and the millions of Euros of "investments" that they have been collecting

 
Anyone like to look at this new article in New Energy and Power? http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/n...ysics-has-another-new-fusion-problem/#respond

Established Physics just got itself another new fusion problem! As if the Rossi e-cat wasn't bad enough it's now got this on its plate:

Brillouin Energy Corp In Berkeley California has another Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) method in the development and proving stage. The new method comes at fusion from a different path than the Rossi E-Cat. The reports have the Brillouin at nearly 2 times the energy coming out from that going in. If this is real the established physicists have a new “won’t fit” phenomena [sic] to cope with.
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Among the backers is an old friend Michael C.H. McKubre PhD., Director, Energy Research Center, Stanford Research Institute, for whom see post #1594. The others I will research presently, but Holden looks interesting already. See http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2011/05/third-thorium-energy-alliance-marks.html

Brillouin LENR works because in simple terms, it
uses an electromagnetic pulse slamming into hydrogen or H1. The pulse pushes some of the hydrogen into dihydrogen or H2 and on to H3 and H4. Finally some hydrogen molecules reach the stage of helium. The method generates heat – more heat energy than electrical energy used to run the pulse.
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Any comments on the plausibility of this "slamming" process?
 
Craig B said:
Any comments on the plausibility of this "slamming" process?
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The description is gibberish. 'dihydrogen', is that like regular H2 gas, or is it deuterium, or is it He2 (which doesn't exist). Similarly for 'H3' and 'H4'.

ETA: He2 -> He2
 
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The founder of the company involved in this LENR project is a VERY interesting person, somehow eerily typical of cold fusion promoters. Complex business deals, and not boring Establishment Science, seem to be his forte. See http://efie.net/

Meanwhile, a little digging will show Mr. Robert E. Godes is an electrical engineer with it seems, a penchant for looking at things without the narrowed view of advanced degrees....

Profusion Energy ran on Godes’ cash lending and when the wall was hit in 2008 the property of Profusion, patents, property and assets returned to Godes for settlement of the debt. In 2009 with no revenues, but with a working unit and testing results Godes was able to startup with some outside capital. Brillouin started up with services of MCM Group, Inc., Grosvenor Financial Partners, LLC, and the patent lawyers in exchange for founders stock. In February 2009, Mr. Godes transferred his patent applications and other intellectual property to Brillouin. This may sound a little convoluted, but Godes managed to keep the intellectual property in control as the second phase of getting to a business proposition stopped and the third stage got underway. Some will find this suspicious, but its not: its just good business sense.
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nathan said:
The description is gibberish. 'dihydrogen', is that like regular H2 gas, or is it deuterium, or is it He2 (which doesn't exist). Similarly for 'H3' and 'H4'.

ETA: He2 -> He2
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Next you'll be telling me dihydrogen monoxide isn't a dangerous substance.
 
Kinda reminds me of story I once read about an old nazi scientist named, I think, Ronald Richter, He was a shockwave expert. Supposedly he went to south america after the end of the war and stumbbled on some kind of shockwave induced nuclear reaction. Made for good reading anyway.
 
TjW said:
Next you'll be telling me dihydrogen monoxide isn't a dangerous substance.
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It's incredibly dangerous!, It's denser than air, so pools low on the ground, and can kill you if there's too much of it there. Plus it conducts electricity, so if it doesn't kill you directly, you can get electrocuted by just stepping into it.
 
unclep2k

A good story, with some now-familiar features. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huemul_Project

Richter's claim to have achieved fusion was wrong. ... After the announcement, and because of delays in Richter's work to pass from the 'technical scale' to the 'industrial scale', Perón appointed a technical committee ... Richter had grossly underestimated the technical difficulties of achieving controlled fusion and had erroneously interpreted the results of his experiments. The Richter affair caused substantial damage to the science and engineering sectors of Argentina's higher education system. ... A recent estimate [is] that the total cost of the project was equivalent to $300 million in 2003 dollars.
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Yup He didn't publish much. Critics that shut him down sounded like doe, not hot enough for fusion. Who knows what went on?
 
Nah I'm not suggestion he was for real. Just kinda interesting how it looks so much like what is happening today.
 
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