Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[bruto]

The same occurred to me.
However, I suppose it's very hard to extract the palladium and iridium, so that to get a process economically viable

If the process produces "large quantities" of the stuff, and he's tried it and found that it works, then he should have at least a little of it already. If true this would seem like the quintessential bootstrapping operation, and he'd be a fool to sell the license at any price.

 

[pedrone]

I mean, if I could make and sell a "Fnordic Fusion" home power source, using only materials I could gather from the local landfill, wouldn't that embarrass the real scientists? Wouldn't they scream with rage when they realize that I - a mere mortal - would practically steal the Nobel prize right out from under them?

you would never steal the Nobel Prize with a Fnordic Fusion if it really does not work

 

[pedrone]

If the process produces "large quantities" of the stuff, and he's tried it and found that it works, then he should have at least a little of it already. If true this would seem like the quintessential bootstrapping operation, and he'd be a fool to sell the license at any price.

No.
If cold fusion really exists, then other cold fusion technologies will get the same, getting palladium.
So palladium will not be expensive in the future

 

[Fnord]

you would never steal the Nobel Prize with a Fnordic Fusion if it really does not work

... and thus we have arived at the crux of the matter: Cold Fusion does not work. Thus, the Fnordic Home Fusion System is only a fantasy.

 

[pedrone]

... and thus we have arived at the crux of the matter: Cold Fusion does not work. Thus, the Fnordic Home Fusion System is only a fantasy.

Then I dont understand how do you intend to make them scream with range with your "fantasy":

"Wouldn't they scream with rage when they realize that I - a mere mortal - would practically steal the Nobel prize right out from under them?"

 

[Fnord]

Uhh ... it's called "sarcasm" ... look it up!

"Reductio ad Absurdium" might also apply.

 

[Hindmost]

I can fuse stuff all the time with my Q-ray bracelet...it's very nice.

glenn

 

[ehcks]

No.
If cold fusion really exists, then other cold fusion technologies will get the same, getting palladium.
So palladium will not be expensive in the future

But if he uses it now, and keeps it hidden for as long as possible, he could be a millionaire long before palladium and iridium drop in value.

That and selling electricity to the power company.

 

[Hindmost]

The new physics...written by Douglas Adams

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Uhh ... it's called "sarcasm" ... look it up!

"Reductio ad Absurdium" might also apply.

Damn you Fnord! Why do you play these tricks on me? I had my cheque book out ready to write you a cheque for $1,000,000CDN and now you tell me you were joking? I'll never ever believe another thing you say.

 

[Fnord]

You wanted to give me Canadian currency?

Please ... don't do me any favours ...

 

[pedrone]

But if he uses it now, and keeps it hidden for as long as possible, he could be a millionaire long before palladium and iridium drop in value.

That and selling electricity to the power company.

No,
there is need money to make money.
Because there is need to develop a technology to extract such palladium and iridium from the other elements involved in the cold fusion

 

[pedrone]

Well, nobody showed yet what a hell the cold fusion conspirators are trying to do

 

[pedrone]

Yes, there is something very intriguing occurring in Mosier-Boss experiment.

Perhaps it's really cold fusion

 

[pedrone]

If it existed, we'd see geophysical evidence of it...

BenBurch,
it's suggested to exist geophysical evidence in this link:
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3269&mode=&order=0&thold=0

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Cold fusion is impossible, according to the foundations of Quantum Mechanics.

But there is a lot of cold fusion researchers worldwide.

How does explain that so many people try to get something that everybody knows to be impossible, along more than 20 years ?

What do they want prove ?

Why do they spend their time and money with cold fusion ?

Are they conspirators ?

If yes, however what is the aim of the conspiracy ?

I may not be a physicist, but I can recognize an Appeal To Popularity when I see one.

None of what you said matters. Dozens, hundreds, or thousands of people chasing a myth will never change the fact it's a myth. The only question is, is this specific instance a myth or not? I'll let the physicists here answer that for me since I'm not qualified; they can examine the claims and tell me if the specific arguments given for this chapter of cold fusion are reasonable. But your appeal here in your OP is nothing more than fallacious.

If this instance of cold fusions claims succeed, they'll do so on their own merits. Many people putting effort into it will not change that. Conversely, if this chapter proves to be more of the same, it'll be so on it's own merits, and again, the numbers of people dedicating effort will mean nothing. It begins and ends with the argument's merits, not the number of advocates.

Until you can disprove the concept of mass delusion, then it is a useless argument to say " 'X' people believe in phenomenon 'Y', therefore there's something there". That is the epitome of the ad populum fallacy.

 

[ben m]

No,
there is need money to make money.
Because there is need to develop a technology to extract such palladium and iridium from the other elements involved in the cold fusion

Not even close, it's trivial. If you treat a Zn-Ir-Pd mixture like ordinary Zn ore, the Zn is vaporized as ZnCl4 and the platinum group metals are left behind.

You realize that when Rio Tinto (or whoever) sends miners down a "platinum mine", the stuff that comes up is not actually platinum, but a pile of rock with fifteen different base metals and (if you're lucky) maybe ten parts per million of platinum. The technology for getting metals out of mixtures is over 100 years old.

Next?

 

[Madalch]

Not even close, it's trivial. ...The technology for getting metals out of mixtures is over 100 years old.

Assuming that the "other elements" produced in the fusion are previously-known metals. Do you know how to separate palladium from trititanium, corbomite, or mithril? Huh? Do you, Mr. fancy metallurgist-man?

 

[Tubbythin]

Let's see...

9. Cold fusion requires a New Physics

Well, if it exists it requires new physics or, if you like, New Physics. I'm not sure why it would require "a New Physics".

The book “Quantum Ring Theory-Foundations for Cold Fusion” was published in 2006. After its publication, the cold fusion researchers neglected the theory, because of the strategy explained ahead.
Since 1989 when it was announced by Fleischmmann and Pons, the cold fusion researchers have along the years hoped to get funds from the governments of several countries, so that to continue the development of the cold fusion technology. But a cold fusion reaction is not possible according to the foundations of Quantum Mechanics, and so a cold fusion technology would require a New Physics for its development.

Well its not really just a quantum mechanics problem. If you treated nuclei as balls of hard particles of protons and neutrons it'd be just as impossible.

It would be so hard to get funds for developing a technology impossible to occur (according to the current theories), which would require a New Physics. Then the cold fusion researchers replaced the name “cold fusion” by LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions), and started to claim that:
a) it actually was not cold fusion
b) there was no need of a New Physics for its explanation

The main problem with cold fusion is that nobody has shown that it works. If someone could show that I don't think there'd be any problem getting funding, regardless of how well understood the theory behind it was.

Well, the cold fusion technology developed by Eng. Andrea A. Rossi and Professor Sergio Focardi is ready, and the cold fusion reactors are ready to be sold. They don’t need funds from the governments for the development of the technology. Therefore there is no need to avoid the correct name for the phenomenon, which is cold fusion, because there are two facts that show that it is indeed a fusion: the transmutation of elements, and the emission of neutrons above the background of neutrons. And since it occurs under conditions of room pressure and low temperature, then of course it is cold fusion.

It is hardly a unique signal. Mix together beryllium and a strong alpha emitter and that's exactly what you'll get, for example.

Besides, the experiments in the LHC are already showing that something is wrong with the current theories (from the data collected in 2010, the Supersymmetry would have to be confirmed, but the experiments have found nothing). Some physicists already are saying that LHC will show the need of a New Physics. And so, if there is need of a New Physics for the LHC, then why not a New Physics for explaining cold fusion too?

Basically equivocating. Problems in one area of physics do not imply problems in another.

Quantum Ring Theory is a New Physics. And probably the principles proposed in the theory are those ones which will bring the explanation for cold fusion.
Perhaps the foundations proposed in Quantum Ring Theory are wrong, and then another New Physics must be found.

What a meaningless couple of sentences.

Nevertheless, no matter what is the New Physics that will be found (in the hypothesis that QRT is wrong), such New Physics will have to satisfy some conditions already shown in QRT. For instance, the new hydrogen model of the New Physics must be able to explain the successes of Bohr (and the existence of the centripetal acceleration on the electron).

Erm, the Bohr model isn't particularly good.

A New Physics cannot live together with paradoxes again, as happened along the 20th Century.

Erm...?

Some experiments are suggesting that Quantum Ring Theory is correct. We can mention for instance the Dehmelt experiment, the Borghi and Conte-Pierlice experiments, and that recent experiment which confirmed the helical trajectory of the photon, published in July-2010.

No idea what these are.

There are many other experiments suggesting that QRT is right.

Really.

Of course there is need a lot of more strong evidences so that to confirm the theory. But what will decide either the theory is correct, or wrong, is the investigation and the submission of its models to experiments.

Well I guess I agree with this bit.

 

[Dancing David]

Yes, there is something very intriguing occurring in Mosier-Boss experiment.

Perhaps it's really cold fusion

Do you understand Ben M's post at all?

The material they use does not show that the neutrons were from the alleged cold fusion at all. The events could have happened at any time and not as a result of the alleged cold fusion.