Fine! You explain how he could possibly 'feel the heat' given off by the jet exhaust, mudlark.
I expect that the ONLY possible way for that to happen would be for the plane to actually be passing him not at 50 feet agl, not 25 feet agl but actually closer than 10 feet agl in at the very least a flat trajectory yet from this altitude you expect the aircraft to have risen over the Pentagon.
That is something you would have to ask William Middleton.
What is more important about his statement on feeling the heat is that he is trying to give an idea of how CLOSE the plane was to him.
Which part of your anatomy are you pullig those agl figures from??
Have you ever been in the proximity of a 757 at 350 mph?
If not, explain.
Then there is the FACT that if the aircraft had been that close to Middleton and had gotten there by flying down Patton drive , as Middleton states, then neither Paik nor Morin could possibly have seen the plane let alone a shadow of this aircraft pass through Paik's garage as per his brother's statement.
Again?
In his CIT interview he described the plane as coming from ´between the Hilton (Sheraton) and Navy Annex´
The path he drew BEFORE the plane actually reached his POV is understandable given the circumstances.
He also went on to describe the plane heading towards the ANC carpark.
The SOC path is in NO WAY described.
Both Paik and Morin place the plane OVER the Annex.
So, apparently Middleton is wrong concerning the plane's flight path. This much has been established over and over.
Wrong in what regards? In relation to the other NOC witnesses?
He still places the plane over the ANC carpark as confirmed by the other witnesses. he also places it NOC (obviously).
The only thing that has been ´established´ is that he DEFINITELY did not see it on the SOC path. Corraborated.
You also said he was with the other ANC witnesses who you say were not watching as the aircraft passed them (they were running and you said Middleton was running as well) and Middleton could easily be experiencing the IR heat from the fireball while facing away from the Pentagon and assuming it was the jet exhaust.
Wrong. I never said he was with the other ANC witnesses.
Middleton was further towards the Annex so the rest of your ´story´ is bunk.
Obviously you haven´t watched his interview or you would have known this.
Noted.
Go watch the interviews before you present your ´theories´
That ,,, OR Middleton was facing the Pentagon while the others ran, in which case he has described the aircraft actually HITTING the Pentagon (he does say that doesn't he?).
You choose, Middleton was looking and seeing the plane hit or he was running away and not watching the plane. Choose one!
Either way the CiT conjecture loses!
He was watching from an obscure viewpoint of the Pentagon facade.
Again, you´re patting yourself on the back before checking the FACTS regarding him ´running´ anywhere or me saying as such.
Furthermore, Middleton is claiming that the aircraft is so close to him that he felt the heat of the engines yet Lagasse, Brooks and Turcois all also say the plane flew right over them, despite their being well south of Middleton, and none of them said they felt the heat of the engines though.
You DO know that Middleton was on a higher ground level than the Citgo witnesses?
He was roughly 80ft ASL and they were roughly 40 ft ASL.
Again, you´ll have to ask or better still TELL Middleton he is lying.
So if they were off in their estimation of where the plane was and it was actually much closer to Middleton than to them it again brings up the FACT that if the plane was where Middleton put it then Paik and Morin could not have seen it.
We know that Paik and Morin saw it and that the shadow passed through Paik's garage and therefore, once again we know that Middleton is wrong. If Middleton is wrong about the flight path then the flghtpath is further south and he is therefore also wrong about the heat he felt.
They were not ´off´ in putting the plane NOC.
They all agree to this.
I´ve already covered this path both here and other posts to you on this very point.
Paik saw the plane go over the Annex. He could not see where it exitted.
Morin saw the plane over the Annex from WITHIN the wings.
Given that the official speed of 782 feet per second, that would mean that the plane would have cleared the Annex and would have been in descent over the trees in 0.7 seconds.
Middleton ASSUMED that the plane had come down that road but in the CIT interview he described it as descending from the Sheraton down over the Annex when it came into his view.
Again go look at the interview to actually SEE his POV then maybe you´ll understand.
It matters not that Middleton says he felt the heat from the exhaust since it is physically impossible for him to have, if he is correct then it makes Lagasse, Brooks, Turcois, Morin and Paik all wrong.
Tell HIM that. CIT reported what HE said.
Either way, he is reinforcing the point of how CLOSE the plane was to him whether he could or could not physically feel the heat of the plane.
AGAIN, tell me what this ´physical fact´ is based upon!
Boger: Specifically and unequivocably states that he watched the aircraft enter the Pentagon.
He is also 100% on NOC and the low level lawn approach wasn´t what he saw.
Morin: The Ingersol photo is NOT taken fromwhere Morin was. It can easily be 50-75 feet west of his location from where he saw the aircraft go beyond the trees.
http://es.tinypic.com/r/33ts9dg/6
It could be 5 feet out from the Annex given the 0.7 second timeframe I outlined. Just howfar out do YOU believe he could have gotten in this time after running from 10 feet within the wings?
Add to that too his reaction time. Are you suggesting that he saw the plane and ran to his alleged POV as soon as he saw it? Truthful logical answer now please...
Morin, Brooks, Turcois, Lagasse, Boger and Middleton (if he was looking, you choose) were all in prime position to see an ascent over the Pentagon. They were watching the plane's approach and several watched right up to the point that the fireball occured yet none report this. Neither does anyone anywhere else.
The fireball was allegedly 200 feet in diameter and the shockwave was felt more than 2 kilometers away. The ANC guys said they could feel the heat of it. Lagasse admitted he dove into his car.
Have you ever stood and actually WATCHED an explosion? Without ducking?
Flinching? Diving for cover?
The fact that they place it NOC makes the damage caused from lightpole 1 to the building itself impossible.
540 MPH: At what point was the aircraft doing 540 MPH? Was it doing so as it passed the Annex?
At 792 feet per second (540 MPH) it would not have reached the northern bend of Columbia Pike in one second so Morin's estimate of 'a few seconds' is not that far off given that a person's estimate of time is really not all that good especially in situtations in which they are not consciously trying to track the passage of time and the plane had not yet reached its max velocity as it passed the Annex.
At this rate of 792 fps it would still be 4 seconds away from the Pentagon but it was not yet at that velocity so 4 seconds is the absolute lower limit.
The FDR ´data´ interpretted by Farmer and Warren Stutt places the plane at 1 second intervals with up to 850ft sparsity at the twp points which run along the Annex. 50mph MINIMUM.
´One second´ is nothing. Let´s be honest here. For him to see the plane, react, get to his alleged POV and then go on to describe events during which he described a ´phase of..NOT KNOWING MUCH´..c´mon.
He claims that the plane took between ´13 and 18 seconds´ to reach the Pentagon. THAT is a big difference.
A finer point may be made regarding Turcois as well. The security tape seems to indicate that much of his story was made up in that it shows him running not towards the embankment and watching the aircraft, but into the gas station!
However, even if we take him at his word he states that the plane went behind the embankment and he did not see it again. He saw the fireball but no aircraft. He states that the plane crashed because he never saw the plane again but he says he did see the fireball. He does not indicate that he looked away between the time the plane went below his line of sight and the appearance of the fireball and he did not see the plane ascend and rise over the Pentagon. So either the fireball occured well in front of the Pentagon and the plane flew through it, or the plane did not ascend and hit the Pentagon.
Either Turcois is a witness for impact, or he is exaggerating his story and did not see the plane the way he related to Craig.
Even IF he ran inside the gas station and he is ´lying´/´exaggerating´ (let´s be clear here) would he not have SEEN the plane first? The plane he saw NOC?
Well we know for certain that the fireball did not occur a 10, 20, 100 several hundred, feet in front of the Pentagon. The only evidence of the origin of the fireball puts it AT the Pentagon wall. In order for the plane to fly through this fireball and thus be masked from Turcois' view (and all others, Brooks and Morin among them) the aircraft would have to have gone vertical within a few dozen feet (along the earth). Furthermore flying anything through a fireball containing pieces of a concrete building is not exactly conducive to the continued ability of an aircraft to perform any flight manouver at all, to say the least.
We know what ´for certain´? based on what? Various witnesses claim that the plane hit the lawn before ´impacting´. That the fuselage blew up on the lawn according to Timmerman, Renzi and to a certain degree, Sepulveda.
You are approaching this as if people would be analyzing the plane as it ´crashed´. MOST were ducking in their cars. Cowered with fear as the ANC guys were (and look how far away they were)
ALL the witnesses within the lawn area either described the plane as being at 3rd floor area. Including Boger.
Wedge 1 had recently been retrofitted to ABSORB bomb blasts. Damage was contained WITHIN that area.
You can scrutinize the NOC accounts all you want. You cannot debunk corraborative testimony simply by cherrypicking certain details of what they described.The outcome is the same. You still failed.
