CIT Fraud Revealed
- Thread starter BCR
- Start date
Lefty, do YOU actually believe an impact is possible from NOC?
He puts the plane OVER THE NAVY ANNEX as does Morin.
The path you refer to is NOT SOC as i have shown.
I am not a sock. AGAIN.
I will respond to ANY posts that are relevant to this topic.
Even the rubbish childish insults and lies that pass for ´debate´
Got it?
I am not a ´no-planer´ by the way.
You guys have a bunch of impossible paths, which one is the real flight path? 2,223 Gs of stupid flight paths, where did Balsamo learn to fly, the same school CIT learned to investigate and make up lies from witness statements?
Please explain how a plane to the south of Paik is able to go NoC and impact the Pentagon as Boger said it did? Shadow places 77 on the correct flight path.
Whooooo bubba. I recorded Shinki with his knowledge (the recorder was on the counter in front of him). I informed him that I was researching a book and he was aware that his account would be used. He made no request that it be kept 'off the record'. Big difference.Then why is it so undecipherable??
In other words you didn´t get the ´answers´ you wanted.
Listen, BCR , if ANY of those alleged recordings contradicted ANYTHING presented by CIT. ESPECIALLY Morin, you would have it plastered all over these pages. Cut the crap.
Morin tell you also that he was within the wings? Is that the real reason they are not being released?
They offer nothing new in that they repeat what CIT has gleaned?
Okay, got it.
Ed Paik could not physically see exactly where the plane left the roof of the Annex wings. Though he DOES describe it crossing over the roof at an angle both physically mimicking and by drawing the path.
A ´ridiculous turn´? Any minor tilt over that roof would have drastically changed the trajectory of the plane whether at 540 or 350mph.
Remember Morin had it at least 50ft above the Annex in a slight nose down attitude.
No way was he describing the heat from the fireball. Watch his interview (for once).
He claimed that the plane took 10-15 seconds to reach the Pentagon from his POV.
He specifically says that he felt the heat ´from the plane...it was THAT CLOSE´
It wasn´t in THAT much of an inclination Lefty after it passed his POV.
It wasn´t the fireball. And he DEFINITELY would have felt nothing from SOC.
On Lefty and Beachnut´s witchhunt and defamation of character rant on Mr. Latas here are some more that you can try to diminish.
Give you guys something to do..
George Nelson
Colonel USAF (Ret.)
30 year career managing aircraft maintenance activities
Licensed commercial pilot
Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic
Aircraft accident investigator
Colonel Michael Harley USAF (ret)
Command pilot
~ 6000 Total Flight Time
T-38,T-33, T-37,T-39, C-47, U-6, Uh-1, C130A, B, E, &
prototype H, Kc-135 and B-52.
26 years commissioned. 34 Years total service USAF Accident Investigator
Instructor Accident Investigation, Embry-Riddle University
Management analyst and IG, simulator instructor,
Instructor Pilot, Standardization Evaluation Pilot,
Chief of Standardization of a Sac Wing equipped with B-52, RC-135 and Kc-135
Flew Cessna 177, Twin Bonanza, Cherokee-6
~200 hours as civilian private pilot
Newspaper columnist for 10 years, now a freelance writer
J. Randall Reinhardt
Commercial, Multi, Instrument, CFI, ATP,
Commercial Glider, Advanced/ Instrument Ground Instructor,
Turbojet Type Rating - Learjet
Flying since 1961,
8,000+ hours in civil, military and Part 25 Transport category aircraft
J.D. degree in 1972 ,
30 years practicing trial law, with a concentration in aviation related litigation,
including FAA Part 91, 135, 121 and 141 accidents and FAA/NTSB matters
Forensic Director for U.S. Aviation Forensics with 30 years experience in aircraft accident investigation.
Former FAA Accident Prevention Specialist
Former member U.S. Unlimited Aerobatic Team with unrestricted aerobatic waiver.
Captain Hadi Rizvi
Flying 43 years
Courses on Accident Investgation
22 Years with Pakistan Air Force as fighter -Total about 3500 Hrs,
Types Flown: T-6G; T-37; T-33; F-86F/E, F-5; MirageIII/V; MIG-15; MIG-19, QFI
21 Years with PIA (Pakistan International Airlines) ~13000 Hrs
Types Flown: F-27; Boeing 737; Boeing 747; Airbus 310
Dennis Cimino
Electrical Engineer
Commercial Pilot Rating, since 1981
Navy Combat Systems Specialist: RADAR, ECM, cryptographic communications
Flight Data Recorder Engineer Smiths Aerospace
BA-609, IDARS, Military and Commercial
Millimeter wave RADAR and countermeasures expert since 1973
Two patents held for Doppler RADAR ( Kavouras ):
long pulsewidth RADAR droop compensation network,
and wave guide arc detection for high powered RADAR
There are more if you want them....
Give you guys something to do..
George Nelson
Colonel USAF (Ret.)
30 year career managing aircraft maintenance activities
Licensed commercial pilot
Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic
Aircraft accident investigator
Colonel Michael Harley USAF (ret)
Command pilot
~ 6000 Total Flight Time
T-38,T-33, T-37,T-39, C-47, U-6, Uh-1, C130A, B, E, &
prototype H, Kc-135 and B-52.
26 years commissioned. 34 Years total service USAF Accident Investigator
Instructor Accident Investigation, Embry-Riddle University
Management analyst and IG, simulator instructor,
Instructor Pilot, Standardization Evaluation Pilot,
Chief of Standardization of a Sac Wing equipped with B-52, RC-135 and Kc-135
Flew Cessna 177, Twin Bonanza, Cherokee-6
~200 hours as civilian private pilot
Newspaper columnist for 10 years, now a freelance writer
J. Randall Reinhardt
Commercial, Multi, Instrument, CFI, ATP,
Commercial Glider, Advanced/ Instrument Ground Instructor,
Turbojet Type Rating - Learjet
Flying since 1961,
8,000+ hours in civil, military and Part 25 Transport category aircraft
J.D. degree in 1972 ,
30 years practicing trial law, with a concentration in aviation related litigation,
including FAA Part 91, 135, 121 and 141 accidents and FAA/NTSB matters
Forensic Director for U.S. Aviation Forensics with 30 years experience in aircraft accident investigation.
Former FAA Accident Prevention Specialist
Former member U.S. Unlimited Aerobatic Team with unrestricted aerobatic waiver.
Captain Hadi Rizvi
Flying 43 years
Courses on Accident Investgation
22 Years with Pakistan Air Force as fighter -Total about 3500 Hrs,
Types Flown: T-6G; T-37; T-33; F-86F/E, F-5; MirageIII/V; MIG-15; MIG-19, QFI
21 Years with PIA (Pakistan International Airlines) ~13000 Hrs
Types Flown: F-27; Boeing 737; Boeing 747; Airbus 310
Dennis Cimino
Electrical Engineer
Commercial Pilot Rating, since 1981
Navy Combat Systems Specialist: RADAR, ECM, cryptographic communications
Flight Data Recorder Engineer Smiths Aerospace
BA-609, IDARS, Military and Commercial
Millimeter wave RADAR and countermeasures expert since 1973
Two patents held for Doppler RADAR ( Kavouras ):
long pulsewidth RADAR droop compensation network,
and wave guide arc detection for high powered RADAR
There are more if you want them....
A W Smith
Philosopher
42 degrees altitude. 210 feet plane altitude, 235 foot shadow.
My calculations have nothing to do with the shadows shown on that Google earth image. I ignored them. You apparently didn't and drew your line parelel to them. Again. look at the numbers I posted. They don't lie. The altitude, the azimuth, the flights altitude and location between Warrens pin points. @ 42 degrees it DOES reach Paik's shop.
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And they all point south. lol
Why are they pointing south? Do you know which way the real flight path is? Where they are pointing!
They agree with the 2,223 g math of Balsamo, this kind of makes them worthless, not one of them can do math to save your nonsensical flight paths. Not one of them supports the NoC! zip here
They all agree flight 77 hit the Pentagon! lol
J. Randall Reinhardt, he is how old? And what does he say about the flight paths you can't agree on?? lol
You left out Lear, and his alien friends, with the aliens and bases on the dark side of the moon and on Mars, I don't understand why Balsamo and CIT have not earned a Pulitzer Prize; lol Lear is perfect for your delusions on 911.
Oops, I am a USAF Accident Investigator, masters in engineering, simulator instructor, simulator evaluator, Instructor Pilot, Standardization Evaluation Pilot, Chief of Training for a Sac Wing KC-135, and more. I can do math and not a single pilot in p4t are capable of fixing 2,223 gs. And I don't fall for paranoid delusions like these failed pilots you listed, but left out Lear and super pilot who never fly as Captain, Balsamo the 11.2 g wonder.
Better get your super experts to help you expose all this nonsense to CBS or Jay Leno, or someone who can help expose you guys as the big joke you really are. Fraud is CIT, and p4t.
It does not matter who you have on the list of people who signed up for 2,223 gs of stupid, it matters what the believe; so far you say they support the lies of Balsamo; not a good thing.
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A W Smith
Philosopher
Whats to explain? look at where Paik's line ends at the Pentagon. Look where my yellow line ends compared to your red line. Self explanatory.
leftysergeant
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2007
- Messages
- 18,863
Beachnut and I have already discussed the value of Nelson's BS. ZIP. He's hung up on parts date stamps and we have demonstrated that that is of no value here. He is also only qualified to address mechanical aspects of the aircraft and not piloting issues.
He's also a known nut bar as witness his dumb ass remarks about Waco and the Murrah Building.
I shall have to do some checking on the others. I have not heard of them before.
Why do you guys keep debating this guy on totally unreliable eyewitness accounts, when the whole CIT theory is just dumber than a box of rocks? A flyover instead of a crash has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. It would be the stupidest if it wasn't for the planted light poles they also have to include, now that takes first place in the stupid idea category. They must think the (insert evil organization here) is run by retarded first graders that are also heroin addicts to come up with those ideas
You are right. The funny part, the videos by CIT has the witnesses refuting everything CIT says.
CIT junk is dumber than a box of rocks.
Why does this sound like the shrimp?
You drew those lines, I didn't.
NO! Those lines are the result of an impossible flight path which you say happened. The math shows they were impossible.
Then show the math
No, I didn't ignore anything! They create impossible flight paths. Since you continue to argue SHOW THE MATH.
I don't think there is anyone here besides the CIT cult and fanboys who disagree. This has all been discussed dozens of times previously, so nothing is new. However, they continue to post as dirty foot coverings and that needs to be countered. Otherwise, it's his ballgame to continue the obvious garbage that only maroons buy. However, there are still a few maroons around and the evidence is in this thread.
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Fine! You explain how he could possibly 'feel the heat' given off by the jet exhaust, mudlark.
I expect that the ONLY possible way for that to happen would be for the plane to actually be passing him not at 50 feet agl, not 25 feet agl but actually closer than 10 feet agl in at the very least a flat trajectory yet from this altitude you expect the aircraft to have risen over the Pentagon.
Then there is the FACT that if the aircraft had been that close to Middleton and had gotten there by flying down Patton drive , as Middleton states, then neither Paik nor Morin could possibly have seen the plane let alone a shadow of this aircraft pass through Paik's garage as per his brother's statement.
So, apparently Middleton is wrong concerning the plane's flight path. This much has been established over and over. You also said he was with the other ANC witnesses who you say were not watching as the aircraft passed them (they were running and you said Middleton was running as well) and Middleton could easily be experiencing the IR heat from the fireball while facing away from the Pentagon and assuming it was the jet exhaust.
That ,,, OR Middleton was facing the Pentagon while the others ran, in which case he has described the aircraft actually HITTING the Pentagon (he does say that doesn't he?).
You choose, Middleton was looking and seeing the plane hit or he was running away and not watching the plane. Choose one!
Either way the CiT conjecture loses!
Furthermore, Middleton is claiming that the aircraft is so close to him that he felt the heat of the engines yet Lagasse, Brooks and Turcois all also say the plane flew right over them, despite their being well south of Middleton, and none of them said they felt the heat of the engines though.
So if they were off in their estimation of where the plane was and it was actually much closer to Middleton than to them it again brings up the FACT that if the plane was where Middleton put it then Paik and Morin could not have seen it.
We know that Paik and Morin saw it and that the shadow passed through Paik's garage and therefore, once again we know that Middleton is wrong. If Middleton is wrong about the flight path then the flghtpath is further south and he is therefore also wrong about the heat he felt.
It matters not that Middleton says he felt the heat from the exhaust since it is physically impossible for him to have, if he is correct then it makes Lagasse, Brooks, Turcois, Morin and Paik all wrong.
Boger: Specifically and unequivocably states that he watched the aircraft enter the Pentagon.
Morin: The Ingersol photo is NOT taken fromwhere Morin was. It can easily be 50-75 feet west of his location from where he saw the aircraft go beyond the trees.http://es.tinypic.com/r/33ts9dg/6
Morin, Brooks, Turcois, Lagasse, Boger and Middleton (if he was looking, you choose) were all in prime position to see an ascent over the Pentagon. They were watching the plane's approach and several watched right up to the point that the fireball occured yet none report this. Neither does anyone anywhere else.
540 MPH: At what point was the aircraft doing 540 MPH? Was it doing so as it passed the Annex?
At 792 feet per second (540 MPH) it would not have reached the northern bend of Columbia Pike in one second so Morin's estimate of 'a few seconds' is not that far off given that a person's estimate of time is really not all that good especially in situtations in which they are not consciously trying to track the passage of time and the plane had not yet reached its max velocity as it passed the Annex.
At this rate of 792 fps it would still be 4 seconds away from the Pentagon but it was not yet at that velocity so 4 seconds is the absolute lower limit.
A finer point may be made regarding Turcois as well. The security tape seems to indicate that much of his story was made up in that it shows him running not towards the embankment and watching the aircraft, but into the gas station!
However, even if we take him at his word he states that the plane went behind the embankment and he did not see it again. He saw the fireball but no aircraft. He states that the plane crashed because he never saw the plane again but he says he did see the fireball. He does not indicate that he looked away between the time the plane went below his line of sight and the appearance of the fireball and he did not see the plane ascend and rise over the Pentagon. So either the fireball occured well in front of the Pentagon and the plane flew through it, or the plane did not ascend and hit the Pentagon.
Either Turcois is a witness for impact, or he is exaggerating his story and did not see the plane the way he related to Craig.
Well we know for certain that the fireball did not occur a 10, 20, 100 several hundred, feet in front of the Pentagon. The only evidence of the origin of the fireball puts it AT the Pentagon wall. In order for the plane to fly through this fireball and thus be masked from Turcois' view (and all others, Brooks and Morin among them) the aircraft would have to have gone vertical within a few dozen feet (along the earth). Furthermore flying anything through a fireball containing pieces of a concrete building is not exactly conducive to the continued ability of an aircraft to perform any flight manouver at all, to say the least.
The line is this shot,http://i47.tinypic.com/15no9d3.jpg according to Google Earth on my computer, is 980 feet, not 555 feet. That's 1.25 seonds at 540 MPH (which the plane was not yet doing at this point).
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Poor George; which delusional flight path does he support? Does he know his ideas on parts is as dumb as CIT ideas on flight paths?
Col Harley? Does he say anything? He does not support Pilots for truth, he accidentally signed up or is super stupid. Which nonsensical flight path does Col Harley support?
Post a quote where Col Harley supports this CIT witnesses failed analysis. Go ahead, and when will Balsamo get an ATP?
Sorry sirs... but you have joined a select few colonels who have crossed over to the dirt dumb dolt status of failure, 2,223 gs of failed ideas on 911; p4t and CIT their crack cocaine research team.
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