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Chris Christy will resign?

Yes.

And so what if they were "meet and greets". Those types of meetings lay the groundwork for future cooperation between the city and state, that apparently the Christie administration was no longer interested in because a Democratic mayor wouldn't endorse a Republican governor. The gall of that mayor. How dare he appear to want someone else elected governor.

How does it normally work? Do politicians who take an oppositional stance towards the other party normally get all-access passes to the networking events hosted by the rival party?

Did this guy at some point seriously think to himself, "it will be better for my constituents if I put myself at odds with the governor"?

I know, I know, I'm blaming the victim. And if this were a rape case, you'd be right, and I wouldn't do it. But it's politics. I take it as axiomatic that the mayor is as big a jackass as the governor.

Well, maybe not literally. As big.
 
How does it normally work? Do politicians who take an oppositional stance towards the other party normally get all-access passes to the networking events hosted by the rival party?

Did this guy at some point seriously think to himself, "it will be better for my constituents if I put myself at odds with the governor"?

I know, I know, I'm blaming the victim. And if this were a rape case, you'd be right, and I wouldn't do it. But it's politics. I take it as axiomatic that the mayor is as big a jackass as the governor.

Well, maybe not literally. As big.

Did you actually read this before posting, or are you playing Devil's Advocate?

If you really mean what you write, that's just down right scary.

A representative is there to represent ALL of the people, not just those that voted for them. A Governor is there to do the best for ALL of the people of his or her State, not just the ones that supported him (or her.)

This is fundamental for all government, it must represent all of the people or it isn't doing it's job.

This doesn't mean that the government has to represent their views, but rather their rights and needs. When the people they are representing need help, or approach the government, they need to be treated exactly the same way regardless of how they voted. When local officials deal with State officials, again they should be dealt with exactly the same, regardless of if they oppose the state government politically or not, they are all there for the same reason, to do the best that they can for the people of the City and State, not to conduct petty politically squabbles that end up effecting the people negatively.

The same with public officials, these people need to be apolitical, they need to treat everyone the same. A city or town should not be cut out or made to suffer because the Mayor doesn't agree with the Governor. A Governor who demands yes-men to surround him and cuts off the State's support to any that refuse to do so is far from a representative of the people, he's nothing but a bully and should have no place in politics.
 
I'm kind of hoping Christy will be tried and convicted rather than resign - to help fuel the destructive gatherings that are the republicker/freemen-on-the land butt fests selection process lately in hope that the fierce outpouring of fecal matter will leave them all reeking of **** and looking like the ******** they are.
 
Mrs. Don just came back yesterday from visiting her family in New Jersey. Governor Christie's recent travails were a regular subject of conversation. They backed the Colbert view that it's not the scandal which is shocking (after all it is New Jersey) but rather the incompetence.
 
How does it normally work? Do politicians who take an oppositional stance towards the other party normally get all-access passes to the networking events hosted by the rival party?

Did this guy at some point seriously think to himself, "it will be better for my constituents if I put myself at odds with the governor"?

I know, I know, I'm blaming the victim. And if this were a rape case, you'd be right, and I wouldn't do it. But it's politics. I take it as axiomatic that the mayor is as big a jackass as the governor.

Well, maybe not literally. As big.


Interesting point of view. I would say that the ongoing fight against political corruption is to make it so that this way of doing things it is not considered normal and acceptable.

You do get the difference between party and government, right?
 
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How does it normally work? Do politicians who take an oppositional stance towards the other party normally get all-access passes to the networking events hosted by the rival party?

Did this guy at some point seriously think to himself, "it will be better for my constituents if I put myself at odds with the governor"?

I know, I know, I'm blaming the victim. And if this were a rape case, you'd be right, and I wouldn't do it. But it's politics. I take it as axiomatic that the mayor is as big a jackass as the governor.

Well, maybe not literally. As big.

This was a meeting between the leadership of the state and the leadership of the 2nd most populous city in the state. It was not a 'networking event hosted by a rival party'. The fact that they are of two different parties SHOULD take a backseat to doing what is right for the constituents.
 
How does it normally work? Do politicians who take an oppositional stance towards the other party normally get all-access passes to the networking events hosted by the rival party?

Did this guy at some point seriously think to himself, "it will be better for my constituents if I put myself at odds with the governor"?

I know, I know, I'm blaming the victim. And if this were a rape case, you'd be right, and I wouldn't do it. But it's politics. I take it as axiomatic that the mayor is as big a jackass as the governor.

Well, maybe not literally. As big.

If you're really being serious, I think it's truly ironic that what made Christie a truly household name was Hurricane Sandy and the fact that President Obama went there to help with the recovery. Imagine if Obama had simply informed Christie that any kind of help was contingent upon Christie's endorsement of Obama and rejection of Romney? Imagine if, instead of going there to help New Jerseyites, Obama had slow-walked any help in order to make Christie look bad, and blamed Christie for the slow down like Christie blamed Sokolich for the traffic?

So the short answer is, no, this isn't how it's supposed to work. This is how a banana republic works. It's a shame you can't tell the difference.
 
Did you actually read this before posting, or are you playing Devil's Advocate?

If you really mean what you write, that's just down right scary.

A representative is there to represent ALL of the people, not just those that voted for them. A Governor is there to do the best for ALL of the people of his or her State, not just the ones that supported him (or her.)

This is fundamental for all government, it must represent all of the people or it isn't doing it's job.

This doesn't mean that the government has to represent their views, but rather their rights and needs. When the people they are representing need help, or approach the government, they need to be treated exactly the same way regardless of how they voted. When local officials deal with State officials, again they should be dealt with exactly the same, regardless of if they oppose the state government politically or not, they are all there for the same reason, to do the best that they can for the people of the City and State, not to conduct petty politically squabbles that end up effecting the people negatively.

The same with public officials, these people need to be apolitical, they need to treat everyone the same. A city or town should not be cut out or made to suffer because the Mayor doesn't agree with the Governor. A Governor who demands yes-men to surround him and cuts off the State's support to any that refuse to do so is far from a representative of the people, he's nothing but a bully and should have no place in politics.

Interesting point of view. I would say that the ongoing fight against political corruption is to make it so that this way of doing things it is not considered normal and acceptable.

You do get the difference between party and government, right?

This was a meeting between the leadership of the state and the leadership of the 2nd most populous city in the state. It was not a 'networking event hosted by a rival party'. The fact that they are of two different parties SHOULD take a backseat to doing what is right for the constituents.
Of course.

For sure a retaliatory bridge closure is unacceptable. If Christie is shown to be involved, he should hang. In fact, he should probably hang just for being close to the people that we already know were involved.

I hope my stance is now sufficiently clear on that matter.

So.

These are right and good ideals that you all have alluded t. We should absolutely hold our politicians to this high standard.

My question is more along the lines of "how does it actually play out in reality today?"

PhantomWolf, my post doesn't arise from genuine belief, nor from some attempt to play the devil's advocate. Rather, I'm simply curious: What did the mayor expect would happen? Did his concept of the reality of government in New Jersey match the ideal alluded to by you and others in response to my post? Or did it more closely match the kind of petty partisan politics expressed in such an extreme and unacceptable form by the Christie administration?

What was going through his head? Did he expect backlash? Maybe, but not this much backlash? Did he see his relationship with the governor's office improving, as a result of his choices?

Did he think to himself, "Christie is a political bully, but surely the ideal of good governance will prevail in this state"? Or did he think something else?

You don't think the mayor of the second largest city in New Jersey owes a lot to special interests? You don't think that perhaps his decision not to endorse Christie arose not from some high-minded ideal of good governance, but rather from the same kind of self-serving, mean-spirited political corruption that created a culture in which retaliatory bridge closure could even be considered as an option?

That's my question. Sincerely, simply: What was the mayor's actual expectation in political reality? We'll probably never know, but I suspect it wasn't a naive assumption that the Christie administration would nobly separate party from government, as hgc--and hopefully all of us--would like.
 
Of course.

For sure a retaliatory bridge closure is unacceptable. If Christie is shown to be involved, he should hang. In fact, he should probably hang just for being close to the people that we already know were involved.

I hope my stance is now sufficiently clear on that matter.

So.

These are right and good ideals that you all have alluded t. We should absolutely hold our politicians to this high standard.

My question is more along the lines of "how does it actually play out in reality today?"

PhantomWolf, my post doesn't arise from genuine belief, nor from some attempt to play the devil's advocate. Rather, I'm simply curious: What did the mayor expect would happen? Did his concept of the reality of government in New Jersey match the ideal alluded to by you and others in response to my post? Or did it more closely match the kind of petty partisan politics expressed in such an extreme and unacceptable form by the Christie administration?

What was going through his head? Did he expect backlash? Maybe, but not this much backlash? Did he see his relationship with the governor's office improving, as a result of his choices?

Did he think to himself, "Christie is a political bully, but surely the ideal of good governance will prevail in this state"? Or did he think something else?

You don't think the mayor of the second largest city in New Jersey owes a lot to special interests? You don't think that perhaps his decision not to endorse Christie arose not from some high-minded ideal of good governance, but rather from the same kind of self-serving, mean-spirited political corruption that created a culture in which retaliatory bridge closure could even be considered as an option?

That's my question. Sincerely, simply: What was the mayor's actual expectation in political reality? We'll probably never know, but I suspect it wasn't a naive assumption that the Christie administration would nobly separate party from government, as hgc--and hopefully all of us--would like.

He expected that a serious long-scheduled meeting between the mayor of the 2nd largest city and state department heads would not be affected when said Democratic mayor does not endorse the Republican governor for re-election.

Who's being unrealistic? To expect a leading member of one party to endorse another party's nominee for governor is just unrealistic. Why is it mean-spirited for a leader of the Democratic party to not endorse a Republican? Contrary to the impression that Christie has been trying to cultivate, he is not much of a moderate and most Democrats oppose his stances. If anything, it's the Democrats who did endorse Christie that are playing political games, being nice to the bully so he won't beat them up.
 
Did anybody else see this:

"Men today have learned the lesson the hard way that if you act like kind of an old-fashioned guy's guy, you're in constant danger of slipping out and saying something that's going to get you in trouble and make you look like a sexist or make you look like you seem thuggish or whatever. That's the atmosphere in which [Chris Christie] operates."
— Brit Hume
 
He expected that a serious long-scheduled meeting between the mayor of the 2nd largest city and state department heads would not be affected when said Democratic mayor does not endorse the Republican governor for re-election.

Who's being unrealistic? To expect a leading member of one party to endorse another party's nominee for governor is just unrealistic. Why is it mean-spirited for a leader of the Democratic party to not endorse a Republican? Contrary to the impression that Christie has been trying to cultivate, he is not much of a moderate and most Democrats oppose his stances. If anything, it's the Democrats who did endorse Christie that are playing political games, being nice to the bully so he won't beat them up.

You say that. My question is, is it actually true?
 
Of course.

For sure a retaliatory bridge closure is unacceptable. If Christie is shown to be involved, he should hang. In fact, he should probably hang just for being close to the people that we already know were involved.

I hope my stance is now sufficiently clear on that matter.

So.

These are right and good ideals that you all have alluded t. We should absolutely hold our politicians to this high standard.

My question is more along the lines of "how does it actually play out in reality today?"

PhantomWolf, my post doesn't arise from genuine belief, nor from some attempt to play the devil's advocate. Rather, I'm simply curious: What did the mayor expect would happen? Did his concept of the reality of government in New Jersey match the ideal alluded to by you and others in response to my post? Or did it more closely match the kind of petty partisan politics expressed in such an extreme and unacceptable form by the Christie administration?

What was going through his head? Did he expect backlash? Maybe, but not this much backlash? Did he see his relationship with the governor's office improving, as a result of his choices?

Did he think to himself, "Christie is a political bully, but surely the ideal of good governance will prevail in this state"? Or did he think something else?

You don't think the mayor of the second largest city in New Jersey owes a lot to special interests? You don't think that perhaps his decision not to endorse Christie arose not from some high-minded ideal of good governance, but rather from the same kind of self-serving, mean-spirited political corruption that created a culture in which retaliatory bridge closure could even be considered as an option?

That's my question. Sincerely, simply: What was the mayor's actual expectation in political reality? We'll probably never know, but I suspect it wasn't a naive assumption that the Christie administration would nobly separate party from government, as hgc--and hopefully all of us--would like.

I think, from what I have read, they Fulop expected Christie's office to act professionally and not like they were working for a 5 year old mob boss. It's becoming quite clear that the Governor's office was anything but professional, and regardless of what he knew, he created and allowed that atmosphere to breed and exist. A professional Leader surrounds himself (or herself) with professional people who can do the job without the petty partisan politics. Christie failed this dramatically.
 
I think, from what I have read, they Fulop expected Christie's office to act professionally and not like they were working for a 5 year old mob boss. It's becoming quite clear that the Governor's office was anything but professional, and regardless of what he knew, he created and allowed that atmosphere to breed and exist. A professional Leader surrounds himself (or herself) with professional people who can do the job without the petty partisan politics. Christie failed this dramatically.

Not only that, but it's becoming a bit shocking at how many people have had to deal with his childishness and the frequency of such. I mean, I'd maybe understand a time or two of the last couple of years where you don't see eye to eye, but Christie appears to have thrown a multitude of "trantrums" over just the past few years. This is what happens with typical bullying behavior. Once someone has the balls to report the individual, or they get busted through their own stupidity, then all of their past deeds come to light as people don't feel the need to hide them anymore.

No matter what happens from this a vast amount of steam has been let out of the Christie train. There's no way he's going to be able to throw his weight around, pun intended, like he was able to before.
 
I think, from what I have read, they Fulop expected Christie's office to act professionally and not like they were working for a 5 year old mob boss. It's becoming quite clear that the Governor's office was anything but professional, and regardless of what he knew, he created and allowed that atmosphere to breed and exist. A professional Leader surrounds himself (or herself) with professional people who can do the job without the petty partisan politics. Christie failed this dramatically.

How does your idea of what Fulop actually expected square with this description of what might reasonably be expected of the Christie administration?

Not only that, but it's becoming a bit shocking at how many people have had to deal with his childishness and the frequency of such. I mean, I'd maybe understand a time or two of the last couple of years where you don't see eye to eye, but Christie appears to have thrown a multitude of "trantrums" over just the past few years. This is what happens with typical bullying behavior. Once someone has the balls to report the individual, or they get busted through their own stupidity, then all of their past deeds come to light as people don't feel the need to hide them anymore.

I mean, did Fulop not know what Christie was like? Was he unaware of the pattern that had emerged over "the past few years"?
 
Sorry, my question was ambiguous. I meant, is Spindrift's claim true, as to what the mayor generally expected would happen.

I don't dispute the evidence of what actually did happen.

“Our administration has sought to operate in a professional and cooperative manner with the Christie administration,” Fulop said in a statement. “Whether cabinet officials meetings, Port Authority lease negotiations or reforming our municipal pension system; it is my hope that state decisions be based on the merits.”

Seems that the Mayor has a naïve belief that the State Government would actually put doing its job in a professional manner like it is supposed to ahead of any party politics.
 
Sorry, my question was ambiguous. I meant, is Spindrift's claim true, as to what the mayor generally expected would happen.

I don't dispute the evidence of what actually did happen.

You're still being ambiguous.

Are you asking that the mayor did not think the governor would act like a petulant child and cancel meetings that had been scheduled for months?
 
How does your idea of what Fulop actually expected square with this description of what might reasonably be expected of the Christie administration?

Well since anyone should expect that any administration would do its job professionally, I'd say it squares with what you should be able to reasonably expect from an Administration. It seems that one of the issues is that while this had been going on for a while, no one was talking about it out loud, so as a new Mayor, I'd suggest that he would have had a reasonable expectation of being treated in a professional manner with the good of the people at the forefront of the any interactions. The e-mails from the NJC side of things seem to indicate this.

“I am not sure if it is a coincidence that your office cancelled a meeting several weeks back that seemed to be simultaneous to other political conversations elsewhere that were happening,” Fulop writes in the email to Baroni. “Prior to that you were always very responsive and I sincerely hope the two issues are not related as it wouldn’t be in the PA, Jersey City or the residents of the state’s best interest.”

I mean, did Fulop not know what Christie was like? Was he unaware of the pattern that had emerged over "the past few years"?

I think most people were ignorant about it unless they personally experienced it, it seems to have taken this Bridge scandal to start the skeletons falling out of the closet.
 
You're still being ambiguous.

Are you asking that the mayor did not think the governor would act like a petulant child and cancel meetings that had been scheduled for months?
Yes.

Well since anyone should expect that any administration would do its job professionally, I'd say it squares with what you should be able to reasonably expect from an Administration. It seems that one of the issues is that while this had been going on for a while, no one was talking about it out loud, so as a new Mayor, I'd suggest that he would have had a reasonable expectation of being treated in a professional manner with the good of the people at the forefront of the any interactions. The e-mails from the NJC side of things seem to indicate this.

“I am not sure if it is a coincidence that your office cancelled a meeting several weeks back that seemed to be simultaneous to other political conversations elsewhere that were happening,” Fulop writes in the email to Baroni. “Prior to that you were always very responsive and I sincerely hope the two issues are not related as it wouldn’t be in the PA, Jersey City or the residents of the state’s best interest.”



I think most people were ignorant about it unless they personally experienced it, it seems to have taken this Bridge scandal to start the skeletons falling out of the closet.
Fair enough. My idle curiosity on this matter is satisfied.
 

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