Chiropractic diagnosis

[Yahweh]

It's a very serious subluxation that requires immediate wallet-lightening.

 

[epepke]

Re: Re: Re: Chiropractic diagnosis

feh. I hate to admit it. It's a code used at work that chiropractors can use to diagnose ("diagnose") a patient and have my company pay their fees except for copay. It's also a point of pride with chiros... they get their own diagnostic catagory, so in a way it "proves" they are legitamate... quack quack quack. If it weren't a mandate we offer Chiro benefits, I would fight even harder to not cover ANY of it.

Oh, but this goes into a rarefied level of nonsense far beyond any actual problems with chiropractic. It simply doesn't make sense in English. Even if one were completely convinced of the validity of all forms of chiropractic, it would still make not the slightest bit of sense.

One might, given a chiropractic mindset, speak of "non-allopathic treatment of a lesion," but "non-allopathic lesion" is like saying "non-Communist toenail" or "non-engineering potato" or "non-ferric Congressman."

 

[Zep]

Suez, are you allowed to "translate" this diagnosis into English on its way through the system?

For example, could "nonallopathic lesion of the back" become "a painful location imagined by practioner but not patient"?

And "autointoxication" can become "a non-existent reversal of intenstinal peristalsis"?

Heh! This could be a good brain-workout game for you, and us!

And although it would be fun to see if what effect it has at the bill-paying end, I doubt it will make a whit of difference really. But at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing you have put the silliness clearly on file for future reference.

Possible?

 

[Suezoled]

Suez, are you allowed to "translate" this diagnosis into English on its way through the system?

For example, could "nonallopathic lesion of the back" become "a painful location imagined by practioner but not patient"?

(snipped)

Possible?

I tried that. I got severely reprimanded for it, as it was "unprofessional" to do so.

 

[Dr. Popalot]

Epepke said "Even if one were completely convinced of the validity of all forms of chiropractic, it would still make not the slightest bit of sense."

Chiropractic is not required to make sense, just money.
There are only two types of medicine: Evidence based and belief based. Guess what type chiropractic is in!

 

[Unsubluxated]

I'll say this very slowly so Suezoled can understand. Nonallopathic means not treated by a medical doctor. In other words, it is a misalignment of the spine, causing pain and loss of function. Something a M.D. would look at and say, "huh, I don't know? But here's some drugs for you!" A Chiropractor, on the other hand, would adjust the lesion and restore normal mobility and function to the region. Problem solved, not covered up by drugs, solved. If by 'real doctor' you mean someone who only knows how to cover symptoms by masking them with drugs, or cutting out the offending body part, someone who is easily swayed by drug company reps to prescribe 'their' drug and call a ski trip to Vail continuing education, then you're right, Chiropractor's are not real doctors. Any chiropractor I know would rather cut off their right arm than be a medical doctor. They are not wanna be's. What to wanna be? Pompous, egotistical, narrow minded like some of you? No thanks!

 

[Martin]

Hey, a real live chiroquack! Accidentally kill any patients recently?

 

[Dragonrock]

I'll say this very slowly so Suezoled can understand. Nonallopathic means not treated by a medical doctor. In other words, it is a misalignment of the spine, causing pain and loss of function. Something a M.D. would look at and say, "huh, I don't know? But here's some drugs for you!" A Chiropractor, on the other hand, would adjust the lesion and restore normal mobility and function to the region. Problem solved, not covered up by drugs, solved. If by 'real doctor' you mean someone who only knows how to cover symptoms by masking them with drugs, or cutting out the offending body part, someone who is easily swayed by drug company reps to prescribe 'their' drug and call a ski trip to Vail continuing education, then you're right, Chiropractor's are not real doctors. Any chiropractor I know would rather cut off their right arm than be a medical doctor. They are not wanna be's. What to wanna be? Pompous, egotistical, narrow minded like some of you? No thanks!

Hello flash-in-the-pan! You've made your unsubstantiated claim now run bravely away never to be heard from again. And the best part is you don't even see the hypocracy between the first and last sentences in your paragraph.

 

[Chanileslie]

Re: Re: Re: Chiropractic diagnosis

feh. I hate to admit it. It's a code used at work that chiropractors can use to diagnose ("diagnose") a patient and have my company pay their fees except for copay. It's also a point of pride with chiros... they get their own diagnostic catagory, so in a way it "proves" they are legitamate... quack quack quack. If it weren't a mandate we offer Chiro benefits, I would fight even harder to not cover ANY of it.

*hangs head in shame*

Here in Nevada, we are mandated by state law to allow Injured Workers to treat with Chiros...and faith healers if they so choose. And yes, we have paid to have a shaman dance over an Injured Worker and chant.

I hate working with chiros, I hate their lousy reporting, when they even bother to supply reporting, and the fact that most of the chiros I have dealt with here in Nevada, just copy and paste the same reporting over and over again, and just change the dates. I've fought not to pay for that crap, but have been over-ridden.

 

[Unsubluxated]

No, I don't have the pleasure of being a Chiropractor, merely a voice for stisfied CHiropractic patients. And no, my D.C. hasn't killed anyone unlike Medical care, which according to Kaiser Permanente in CA, is (conservatively) the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S. Hmm, 3 out 4 who die are from medical care, keep working at it, you can probably go higher. BTW, aputate the wrong limb lately?

 

[Martin]

No, I don't have the pleasure of being a Chiropractor, merely a voice for stisfied CHiropractic patients

Ah. We get plenty of gullible fools in here, but we've never had one of their spokespeople.

And no, my D.C. hasn't killed anyone unlike Medical care, which according to Kaiser Permanente in CA, is (conservatively) the 3rd leading cause of death in the U.S. Hmm, 3 out 4 who die are from medical care, keep working at it, you can probably go higher. BTW, aputate the wrong limb lately?

Yes, people die from medical care. The difference here is that medical care actually saves lives too. Number of lives saved by medical care - number of lives lost through medical care = large positive number. Number of lives saved by chiroquackery = 0. You can fill in the rest for yourself.

 

[Chanileslie]

Believe me, this isn't true. I know of NO public or private university in which health care is included with tuition. I'd guess the majority of my students are either covered under their parent's policy, or just not covered.
Graduate students usually have an option to buy into the university insurance plan, but it is still expensive. and it is an option---which means that many do not have insurance

(enough digression from Suez's topic--that was just So Wrong i couldn't let it go)

The University of Nevada charges each school year a mandatory $76 fee for student health services and it doesn't matter if one requires or even wants these services, one is required to pay the fee. Of course, that also gives one unlimited access to the student health center which one can get most of the basic medical care.

 

[Phaycops]

I'll say this very slowly so Suezoled can understand. Nonallopathic means not treated by a medical doctor. In other words, it is a misalignment of the spine, causing pain and loss of function. Something a M.D. would look at and say, "huh, I don't know? But here's some drugs for you!" A Chiropractor, on the other hand, would adjust the lesion and restore normal mobility and function to the region. Problem solved, not covered up by drugs, solved. If by 'real doctor' you mean someone who only knows how to cover symptoms by masking them with drugs, or cutting out the offending body part, someone who is easily swayed by drug company reps to prescribe 'their' drug and call a ski trip to Vail continuing education, then you're right, Chiropractor's are not real doctors. Any chiropractor I know would rather cut off their right arm than be a medical doctor. They are not wanna be's. What to wanna be? Pompous, egotistical, narrow minded like some of you? No thanks!

And that's the lovely thing about smileys. Sometimes you don't even need to say anything.

 

[Chanileslie]

I'll say this very slowly so Suezoled can understand. Nonallopathic means not treated by a medical doctor. In other words, it is a misalignment of the spine, causing pain and loss of function. Something a M.D. would look at and say, "huh, I don't know? But here's some drugs for you!" A Chiropractor, on the other hand, would adjust the lesion and restore normal mobility and function to the region. Problem solved, not covered up by drugs, solved. If by 'real doctor' you mean someone who only knows how to cover symptoms by masking them with drugs, or cutting out the offending body part, someone who is easily swayed by drug company reps to prescribe 'their' drug and call a ski trip to Vail continuing education, then you're right, Chiropractor's are not real doctors. Any chiropractor I know would rather cut off their right arm than be a medical doctor. They are not wanna be's. What to wanna be? Pompous, egotistical, narrow minded like some of you? No thanks!

If by nonallopathic, you mean, doesn't show up on MRI's, X-rays, CT scans or any other diagnostics and can't be seen or noted by anyone other than a chiropractor, you've got yourself a diagnosis of nothing. A chiro on the other hand is willing to put a name to a non-existant problem and charge one $90 a visit three times a week indefinitely to 'cure' that 'problem', which with any likelihood would have corrected itself in a day or two with some rest.

 

[geni]

I'll say this very slowly so Suezoled can understand. Nonallopathic means not treated by a medical doctor. In other words, it is a misalignment of the spine, causing pain and loss of function. Something a M.D. would look at and say, "huh, I don't know? But here's some drugs for you!" !

Nope. Allopathic is a work coined about 200 years ago by the founder of homeopathy to describe the medical pratices of the day. Today the word is still in use and is used to describe the practioners of conventional medcine. Nonallopathic would mean something that according to Conventional medcine does not exist. Since conventional medcine accepts that pain exists that must mean that whatever the problem is it must not hurt or produce anything else a convetional docter would recognise as a symptom.

 

[cbish]

so unsubluxated,

with my autointoxication diagnosis;

If I went to ten chiropracters, how many would give a similar diagnosis?

 

[Suezoled]

I'll say this very slowly so Suezoled can understand. Nonallopathic means not treated by a medical doctor. In other words, it is a misalignment of the spine, causing pain and loss of function. Something a M.D. would look at and say, "huh, I don't know? But here's some drugs for you!" A Chiropractor, on the other hand, would adjust the lesion and restore normal mobility and function to the region. Problem solved, not covered up by drugs, solved. If by 'real doctor' you mean someone who only knows how to cover symptoms by masking them with drugs, or cutting out the offending body part, someone who is easily swayed by drug company reps to prescribe 'their' drug and call a ski trip to Vail continuing education, then you're right, Chiropractor's are not real doctors. Any chiropractor I know would rather cut off their right arm than be a medical doctor. They are not wanna be's. What to wanna be? Pompous, egotistical, narrow minded like some of you? No thanks!

Well since we're talking slowly, let me answer you, slowly. Doctors do not simply prescribe drugs for pain. Drugs are not all bad- bad. They do not mask symptoms, they help a patient get better. Fact of the matter is, if your spine is truly out of alignment, the worst thing you can likely to is go to a chiropractor.

I mean "real doctor" as in Medical Doctor, someone who is trained and educated to recognize, diagnose, and treat a patient. Any chiropractor I know personally would rather be a real medical doctor, and I've interacted with quite a few, in all 50 of the United States. Most chiropractors would jump at the chance to have the same status and respect a medical doctor deserves. Chiropractors are not trained to diagnose and treat a patient. If a person has a problem, a chiropractor would not fix it any better than a phyiscal therapist, osteopath, and/or massage therapist. They Want To Be but without the work or the intelligence required to pass MCATS and obtain a doctorate.

Pain is a recognized symptom, and a medical doctor would work to find that source of pain, and stop or manage it to the extent it can be managed.

Did you know that out of 6 chiropractors I interviewed personally, in my area, (mind you it's a small and anecdotal number), only 1 of them recognized the common symptoms of a heart attack, and even then he missed some of the most easily recognizable symptoms?

Let's see: chiropractor: back and neck. It's dangerous to adjust the neck. Chiros don't even recognize or understand some drugs make it dangerous to adjust the c-spine.

Attacking the medical industry: attacking the medical industry does NOT verify, exonnerate, or excuse chiropractic or better it position.

Let's see a small section of how medical industry is: Oncology, hematology, endocrinology, gynecology, neurology, psychology, dermatology, anesthesiology, pediatrics, cardiology, cytopathology, gastroenterology, urology, immunology, nephrology, neonatology, orthopedics, plastic surgery, proctology, radiology, lab technician, vascular medicine, allergist, pain management, osteology.... let's also include veterinary, too.

Specialization, diagnosis, treatment.... a chiropractor is simply little more useful than a physical therapists, and physical therapists work in conjunction with medical doctors to insure a patient is treated for what the ailment is most likely.

 

[Unsubluxated]

My tone was in response to the overall tone of this thread. Wow, no spirited debate on this site, just 'if you don't agree with me, get the hell out'. No willingness to learn, to accept or consider that there might be another option for health care. You guys should start calling yourself a cult instead of a website. Nooooo, the world is flat, dammit and I don't care what anyone says.

*covers ears and chants "I can't hear you, I can't hear you...*

 

[Suezoled]

so unsubluxated,

with my autointoxication diagnosis;

If I went to ten chiropracters, how many would give a similar diagnosis?

I think it changes cbish. You go to one Chiro, they'll find what's wrong, if you go to another, your diagnosis will change because your source of issue will change. That's why, when I went to all those chiros, one person said I had a bad back, another said my neck curves the wrong direction, another said my right foot was longer than my left, and another said my left foot was longer than my right. I mean, things change all the time. heh.

 

[Suezoled]

My tone was in response to the overall tone of this thread. Wow, no spirited debate on this site, just 'if you don't agree with me, get the hell out'. No willingness to learn, to accept or consider that there might be another option for health care. You guys should start calling yourself a cult instead of a website. Nooooo, the world is flat, dammit and I don't care what anyone says.

*covers ears and chants "I can't hear you, I can't hear you...*

Debate? What's there to debate? Chiros do give some benefit, but they are not trained to diagnose or treat a patient, much as they'd like to. Unsublaxated, do you really think you're the first one to come in with your arguments and assertions? They aren't new, and they were refuted years ago. Why entertain you when it's easier to drop truth in your lap? Do what you like.

Oh, and no one on this board has "non allopathic subluxations" either. I am not a real doctor, but I can bet on that.