• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

China Flexes Military Muscle

Your assuming China actually cares enough to find Trump a threat.

Considering how much the US owes them it will be fine
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Which implies that the US or Japan or the EU or NATO countries aren't developing new systems.
Click to expand...

No, I wish it did. Prepare to be leap-frogged. It has happened before, and the evidence is on store shelves everywhere. Guess who makes CCDs that make US spy cameras look chintzy? Samsung, whose CCDs have a resolution that, according to my sources, is not matched in US mfg. Take OLEDs. Known about for decades. In theory; most thought them impossible to manufacture. The US cannot, in fact, make them.

Sure, you can place emphasis on R&D and try to keep pace. Lower Cash flow will not allow you to do so, and a growing critical mass outside the West of research universities and business/military/govt is there to be reckoned with.

The argument, to finish it, is for extremely close cooperation between all liberal democracies, as none alone will be able to compete in a new world for too long. Essentially, Brexit and Trumpian trade and alliance policies are brain-dead suicide.
 
Segnosaur said:
Err... not really.

In fact your very own reference given in the opening post doesn't even support that. In fact, it suggests that the J-20 was designed around an air-to-ground role (based on the size of its weapons bays, and certain censors the plane has.)

You see, this is one of the reasons you don't get much respect here... because you even ignore reference that you yourself give in favor of just making stuff up.


Assuming of course that

- the Tankers are actually close enough to the combat for the J20 to reach, rather than being kept out of range

- The F22s/F35s/etc. haven't just refueled, meaning that they would have sufficient fuel on their own to take care of any J20s even if by some miracle the tankers were shot down

- The J20 works as promised, and doesn't fall out of the sky because they don't have the proper engine for it, or get detected miles away because China hasn't managed to build stealth planes with the right tolerances due to technology
Click to expand...

Really...take a look at a map. Places like Okinawa and mainland Korea are non-options for a base: the Chinese will shut those down immediatly with cruise missiles and air strikes. This leaves aircraft carriers and Air Force support from Guam (which is 1500 miles away from the Chinese mainland). So any F-15s, F035As, F-22a getting into a fight near the South China Sea is going to have to cross a lot of water, and they are going to need tankers. And if you take out those tankers, then those planes have no where else to go but into the water.

Furthermore, those Carriers aren't going to be able to get too close to the mainland either for they will be big, juicy targets for China's missile crews. Thus, the Navy will also have to rely on refueling. Plus, once in a fight the amount of gas all these planes burn goes up dramatically - making refueling even more urgent.

It will be a fuel war over the Western Pacific and him that got the biggest gas tank will win.

Now...your comments about China not having the engine or production capabilities for the J-20 are just wishful thinking. China turns out plenty of WS-10s in the 30,000+ lb range for their J-10s and J-11s and these will do a great job of servicing the J-20 as an interceptor until the WS-15s are available in mass quantities.

And as far as your mention of "Tolerances" in reference to stealth....just more wishful thinking on your part. Seriously, many of you are starting to sound like the MSM Journalists who have been predicting for years that China's Economy will tank the same way Japan's Economy did in the early 1990s - it's just some really strange wishful thinking.
 
Jules Galen said:
Really...take a look at a map. Places like Okinawa and mainland Korea are non-options for a base: the Chinese will shut those down immediatly with cruise missiles and air strikes. This leaves aircraft carriers and Air Force support from Guam (which is 1500 miles away from the Chinese mainland). So any F-15s, F035As, F-22a getting into a fight near the South China Sea is going to have to cross a lot of water, and they are going to need tankers. And if you take out those tankers, then those planes have no where else to go but into the water.

Furthermore, those Carriers aren't going to be able to get too close to the mainland either for they will be big, juicy targets for China's missile crews. Thus, the Navy will also have to rely on refueling. Plus, once in a fight the amount of gas all these planes burn goes up dramatically - making refueling even more urgent.

It will be a fuel war over the Western Pacific and him that got the biggest gas tank will win.

Now...your comments about China not having the engine or production capabilities for the J-20 are just wishful thinking. China turns out plenty of WS-10s in the 30,000+ lb range for their J-10s and J-11s and these will do a great job of servicing the J-20 as an interceptor until the WS-15s are available in mass quantities.

And as far as your mention of "Tolerances" in reference to stealth....just more wishful thinking on your part. Seriously, many of you are starting to sound like the MSM Journalists who have been predicting for years that China's Economy will tank the same way Japan's Economy did in the early 1990s - it's just some really strange wishful thinking.
Click to expand...



Do you have a military background?
 
I was in Reagan's AirForce. I was stationed at RAF Mildenhall, the "Husky Truck Stop" on the edge of Europe. We used to send Blackbirds up from that base. Eventually the locals twigged to the pattern of refueling planes sent ahead of the SR71 so it could, uh, do whatever it was doing, with full tanks. It took three fueled planes of two different kinds, refueling over Scotland, then Scandinavia and then Poland or something. And refueling with one of the three on the way out of the Area of Operations so it could get home, after blowing through a tank at Mach 3.classified doing, um, whatever it was doing.

Let us just say that our midair refueling capacity is mature and technologically capable, and our fighter pilots practice refueling regularly. We could launch attacks on the Orient directly from Alabama if we wanted to.
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
I was in Reagan's AirForce. I was stationed at RAF Mildenhall, the "Husky Truck Stop" on the edge of Europe. We used to send Blackbirds up from that base. Eventually the locals twigged to the pattern of refueling planes sent ahead of the SR71 so it could, uh, do whatever it was doing, with full tanks. It took three fueled planes of two different kinds, refueling over Scotland, then Scandinavia and then Poland or something. And refueling with one of the three on the way out of the Area of Operations so it could get home, after blowing through a tank at Mach 3.classified doing, um, whatever it was doing.

Let us just say that our midair refueling capacity is mature and technologically capable, and our fighter pilots practice refueling regularly. We could launch attacks on the Orient directly from Alabama if we wanted to.
Click to expand...
... or Diego Garcia.
 
Trump win opens way for China to take climate leadership role

From Reuters:

Beijing is poised to cash in on the goodwill it could earn by taking on leadership in dealing with what for many other governments is one of the most urgent issues on their agenda.

"Proactively taking action against climate change will improve China's international image and allow it to occupy the moral high ground," Zou Ji, deputy director of the National Centre for Climate Change Strategy and a senior Chinese climate talks negotiator, told Reuters.

Zou said that if Trump abandons efforts to implement the Paris agreement, "China's influence and voice are likely to increase in global climate governance, which will then spill over into other areas of global governance and increase China's global standing, power and leadership."
Click to expand...

One more reason Trump's election is no victory at all, even for staunch supporters of American supremacy. We'll see, but with Trump poised to name anti-science people across the board, especially in the EPA, hard to think how the US will recover from what will be, when it comes, yet another embarrassing public trouser drop.

That's losing, not winning. Bigly. Go, Donald!
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
I was in Reagan's AirForce. I was stationed at RAF Mildenhall, the "Husky Truck Stop" on the edge of Europe. We used to send Blackbirds up from that base. Eventually the locals twigged to the pattern of refueling planes sent ahead of the SR71 so it could, uh, do whatever it was doing, with full tanks. It took three fueled planes of two different kinds, refueling over Scotland, then Scandinavia and then Poland or something. And refueling with one of the three on the way out of the Area of Operations so it could get home, after blowing through a tank at Mach 3.classified doing, um, whatever it was doing.

Let us just say that our midair refueling capacity is mature and technologically capable, and our fighter pilots practice refueling regularly. We could launch attacks on the Orient directly from Alabama if we wanted to.
Click to expand...
But why would you?
 
cullennz said:
But why would you?
Click to expand...

You never know what's round the corner. Better to have the capability than be in a situation where someone invades Czechoslovakia Poland or the Falklands and you left it too late.
 
catsmate said:
Border disputes, "Short Victorious War" syndrome, oil and minerals.
Click to expand...
....OK.

And you think this would be China?

Fair call. Always be pointlessly worried about a country Obama built ties with and Trump will screw
 
cullennz said:
China are going to invade anyone?

You owe them too much money
Click to expand...

Situations change.
Once upon a time armies could be raised and equipped quickly.
Now you fight a war with what you have as it takes a long time to develop and equip.
Lost capability takes years to replace.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom