China creates video game simulating combat against US troops

Which you attempted by radically redefining what the term meant. It's quite evident that you can't defend your positions without logical fallacies and innuendos. You can keep your opinions if you want to, but you can't defend them. We're done here as far as I'm concerned.

McHrozni

As you have yet to refute, nor even substantively address, any of the issues I raised and yet you continue to make unsupported assertions,...it is obvious and apparent why you are "done."
 
Believe it or not my final comment was summarizing the basic arguments of the Thread, not surrounding you of course.

These are copies from the article you are copying from:
“BEIJING: China has signaled it wants to go the US way and set up military bases in overseas locations that would possibly include Pakistan. The obvious purpose would be to exert pressure on India as well as counter US influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.”
“the article said and went on to suggest that it would be done in the neighborhood, possibly Pakistan.”

--hmm who’s fault is it that China wants to also show its right to extend? THE US WAY.

The article also went on to say WHY they are looking into going the US WAY:
“"As for the military aspect, we should be able to conduct the retaliatory attack within the country or at the neighboring area of our potential enemies. We should also be able to put pressure on the potential enemies' overseas interests,"

--Nowhere does it indicate a potential threat. China knows the it will gain nothing by starting a war, what it will do (as any other country) is seek its own interest. It will not benefit China to attack another country for oil (which is your assumption) to upset it’s relationship with the US and the trading. Oil for war.

IF the Chinese are harassed then they will attack as any other country will.

You know what the strange thing about all of this is? That your fear of the Chinese is based on the exact thing the US is doing.

ps. Don't you think all this is caused by the US' advancing to Asia, very close to China, maybe they feel threatened & paranoid? But you are seeing this from an American perspective and not that of Chinese.

as someone said.."poking the dragon"
 
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--hmm who’s fault is it that China wants to also show its right to extend? THE US WAY.

What an ignorant comment. We didn't show them the way, HISTORY did. And it's nobody's fault either. Like I said, a power which could possess the capacity to project force but chooses not to is not noble, it's just stupid. And the Chinese are not stupid. Nor do I demand that they be stupid.

--Nowhere does it indicate a potential threat.

Well of course not. If they don't want to threaten anyone, then they wouldn't say they do. And if they DO want to threaten anyone, then it would be stupid to say they're going to threaten other people before they've even got that capability in place. So that only tells us that they aren't bat-guano crazy.

China knows the it will gain nothing by starting a war, what it will do (as any other country) is seek its own interest.

In regards to Taiwan, they might very well decide that war IS the way to achieve their interests. That may not be inevitable, but it's certainly possible. And it's possible precisely because China is growing stronger. When they were weaker, that was never an option. They're working hard to make it an option, even if it's not the option they prefer.

It will not benefit China to attack another country for oil (which is your assumption) to upset it’s relationship with the US and the trading. Oil for war.

First off, I said nothing of the sort. They don't need to attack other countries, because they're perfectly willing to cozy up to whoever is already in charge. And they're perfectly willing to interfere by helping whoever is in charge, in exchange for oil, even if what they're helping them do is really nasty stuff. Which they're already doing in the Sudan. And which you seem completely ignorant of.

You know what the strange thing about all of this is? That your fear of the Chinese is based on the exact thing the US is doing.

Indeed: pursuing their own interests, which conflict with our interests. History demonstrates that this can often lead to war. What's your point? I mean, besides trying to badmouth me and the US?

But you are seeing this from an American perspective and not that of Chinese.

You clearly have no idea what perspective I'm seeing this from. You see, unlike you, I'm not actually blaming China for anything (well, I am for the whole Sudan thing, but that's it). You, on the other hand, seem quite intent on blaming the US.
 
--hmm who’s fault is it that China wants to also show its right to extend?

Curiously, you declare it their "right", parroting the line of their Communist Party. Do you also agree the US has every right to pursue military bases all over the world, or is there some special set of standards for China, which is more permissive than the rest of the world?

McHrozni
 
Curiously, you declare it their "right", parroting the line of their Communist Party. Do you also agree the US has every right to pursue military bases all over the world, or is there some special set of standards for China, which is more permissive than the rest of the world?

McHrozni

Strange you didn't quote me on saying it is their right, but we both know why, be careful what you pull out of your arse. ;)
Isn't that what the US is doing by the way? The article indicates that they are following the US and is looking into setting up military bases by using the idea that "since it is good for the US it is good for China:
A base-race.
 
What an ignorant comment. We didn't show them the way, HISTORY did. And it's nobody's fault either. Like I said, a power which could possess the capacity to project force but chooses not to is not noble, it's just stupid. And the Chinese are not stupid. Nor do I demand that they be stupid.


-I quoted you in your own quoted article the reason they gave, which is to follow the US-Way. Now are you denying your article? or just pulling out the things out of contexts to whatever suits you...

-The statement that I placed in bold: "A power which could possess the capacity to project forces but chooses not to is not noble, it's just stupid"
You don't understand do you? China has the forces but this does not this mean they are a threat. You keep insinuating that they are either planning or that a rise in their military means they will be. You forget that there are other contenders that the Chinese will take into account if as you say they'll try anything that is threatening: the US' military, along with their allies (UK, etc) China's ever growing military can not handle this and it's economy. The only THREAT they will be is if they are threatened themselves.

-So you agree that nowhere does it say they are a potential threat. I don't expect them to say they would be a threat, but atleast indicate something along the lines of being a future threat. All you've shown me so for as a basis that China is a future threat, is your own reasoning that they have the military and it will only make sense to use it (since a threat isn't positive, then they'll use it negatively) with no other basis.

-Badmouth? Truth isn't badmouth, shows where your fear comes from, that another country will now do the same as the US.

-I didn't BLAME the US, your article did, and the Chinese use it as an excuse.

-All you've done is tell me that China is a threat based on its growing military, maybe we have the definition of threat wrongly. Seems very much as paranoia to me. Unless you can provide more information of China's plan.
 
Strange you didn't quote me on saying it is their right, but we both know why, be careful what you pull out of your arse. ;)

--hmm who’s fault is it that China wants to also show its right to extend?

Nice how you deny you ever said this. Liar liar pants on fire, I guess.

Isn't that what the US is doing by the way?

Copy-paste from this very thread for your viewing pleasure:
Red herring, even if it were true (and it's not). "America does worse anyway" is not an intelligent argument, it never was and it never will be. It's just an attempt to deflect attention away from the issue, and a pathetic one at that.

McHrozni
 
-I quoted you in your own quoted article the reason they gave, which is to follow the US-Way. Now are you denying your article? or just pulling out the things out of contexts to whatever suits you...

No, YOU are pulling things out of context. The quote doesn't disagree with what I said. China isn't blaming us, they're using us as an example to justify their actions for PR purposes. It makes sense, from a PR perspective, but that's all it is: PR. The real question is whether it's in their interests to do this. And it is. Beyond that, what we have or haven't done is actually quite irrelevant. It's strange that you can't understand such basic concepts.

-The statement that I placed in bold: "A power which could possess the capacity to project forces but chooses not to is not noble, it's just stupid"
You don't understand do you? China has the forces but this does not this mean they are a threat.

Again, you're the one who doesn't get it. I never claimed that China was a threat simply because they had a growing military force. That would be nonsense, the same sort of nonsense you've tried to peddle in regards to American power. What makes them a threat to us is the combination of growing military strength AND interests which conflict with ours. You seem quite intent on ignoring that latter part, which is just stupid to do.

You keep insinuating that they are either planning or that a rise in their military means they will be.

No, I'm rather explicitly stating that they're working towards having the capacity to invade Taiwan. Again, this is public information. If you don't know this, you're not paying attention. I never said that this means conflict is inevitable. In fact, I've explicitly said that it's not, multiple times. But it rather obviously means that the possibility of conflict is higher than if they were not doing this. You have never presented an argument to the contrary. In fact, your arguments have all been either strawmen or completely disconnected to what's actually happening.

You forget that there are other contenders that the Chinese will take into account if as you say they'll try anything that is threatening

I never said anything of the sort. Start paying better attention, because your strawmen are growing tedious.

The only THREAT they will be is if they are threatened themselves.

No, they will be a threat whenever they feel their interests are threatened. Which is no different from any other major power. You keeping making claims that would require that China be somehow different, more moral, than any other major power. And that's just nonsense.

If, for example, Taiwan were to declare independence, that would threaten their interests. Our interest is in a stable, democratic Taiwan. At that point, our interests and their interests would collide, and they would pose a threat to us, just as we would pose a threat to them. Whether that turned into military conflict is uncertain, but quite possible. And that outcome becomes more likely the stronger China becomes. This isn't hard to understand, and this isn't a secret.

-So you agree that nowhere does it say they are a potential threat. I don't expect them to say they would be a threat, but atleast indicate something along the lines of being a future threat. All you've shown me so for as a basis that China is a future threat, is your own reasoning that they have the military and it will only make sense to use it (since a threat isn't positive, then they'll use it negatively) with no other basis.

Yeah, no. Nice try, but fail.

-I didn't BLAME the US, your article did, and the Chinese use it as an excuse.

They used it as justification (though none was needed). But they didn't blame us. That was entirely you. Let me quote you:

--hmm who’s fault is it that China wants to also show its right to extend? THE US WAY.

You blamed the US. And now you're denying what you clearly wrote.

-All you've done is tell me that China is a threat based on its growing military, maybe we have the definition of threat wrongly.

Maybe you need to improve your reading comprehension skills.
 
Let's see. You're pointed out that China is establishing bases around the world, and then point out that they're just following the US lead. If that's not blame, what is it?

McHrozni

Let's see. Why didn't you quote the rest of what I said and you'd see that it made reference to the article WHICH your amiga, ZIGGURAT, quoted from. I'll requote it esp. for you:
“BEIJING: China has signaled it wants to go the US way and set up military bases in overseas locations that would possibly include Pakistan. The obvious purpose would be to exert pressure on India as well as counter US influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.”

The article also went on to say WHY they are looking into going the US WAY:

“"As for the military aspect, we should be able to conduct the retaliatory attack within the country or at the neighboring area of our potential enemies. We should also be able to put pressure on the potential enemies' overseas interests,"
*************************
 
It makes sense, from a PR perspective, but that's all it is: PR.
..but you fell for weapons of mass destruction didn't you. ahh jk.
Zig, China has more to lose than to gain if it starts a war (Before you change you mind again let me quote you in your response to TShaitanaku:
...it does coincide with a very real, VERY common opinion in China, which is that they will eventually go to war with the United States. And it's not just random peasants who think that, it's a very common opinion within the military as well. And I don't just mean thinking that we're a possible adversary, or an adversary they need to be prepared to fight, I mean thinking that war is inevitable.
...But it is yet one more indicator (but far from the only or most significant one) of an opinion among the Chinese that signals danger. And we should be very aware of that danger.
)

I realize that you keep tying yourself up. China has not indicated that it is a danger, yes, they will secure their interest as the US secures their own. The US (advancing closer into Asia) is a threat to them as you view they are a threat. Before you point fingers, look at what your own country is doing and how this is influencing the actions of other countries. As a growing world power the US started by flexing their military muscles to protect their interest, invading other countries etc (whether for good/bad isn't the point), now China is a growing world power.
If you expect me to believe that China is a danger that we all should be madly concern about, simply because they are growing in military & they have interest, then I think you'd fit into the Religious Forum. It takes more than military & interest to raise concern They MUST have MORE to GAIN if they're going to be a threat and start a war. But I see why your arguement is falling, it is because you fail to mention the US' interest ;)
 
Zig, China has more to lose than to gain if it starts a war

That's more true the weaker China is, and less true the stronger it is. Now, which direction is China moving?

I realize that you keep tying yourself up.

No, Caveman. Having a position more complicated than 1+1=2 does not constitute "tying myself up." Nor do my attempts to unravel YOUR repeated strawmen.

China has not indicated that it is a danger, yes, they will secure their interest as the US secures their own. The US (advancing closer into Asia) is a threat to them as you view they are a threat.

I never said we weren't a threat to them. Obviously we are. But how, pray tell, do you think we're advancing into Asia?

Before you point fingers, look at what your own country is doing and how this is influencing the actions of other countries.

Again, you presume I'm taking positions that I simply never expressed.

As a growing world power the US started by flexing their military muscles to protect their interest, invading other countries etc (whether for good/bad isn't the point), now China is a growing world power.

Did I ever say otherwise? No, I did not. In fact, you're almost making one of the very points that I was making: as China gets stronger, it will flex its muscles more.

If you expect me to believe that China is a danger that we all should be madly concern about

You have this seemingly constant need to exaggerate every claim. Furthermore, I have no idea who YOU mean by "we". But I have only meant the United States. If you're not from the US, then your concerns may be quite different than ours, and reasonably so. Again, this SHOULD be obvious, but perhaps it's not.

simply because they are growing in military & they have interest

Again, I note that you conveniently left out the critical fact that China's interests and our interests conflict. Why the willful blindness?

It takes more than military & interest to raise concern They MUST have MORE to GAIN if they're going to be a threat and start a war.

This is ahistorical and foolish. People make mistakes. Entire countries make mistakes. Whether or not WE think that China has more to lose than gain, they may not feel the same way. They may, in fact, be making that calculation based on entirely different priorities than we think are. The idea that war cannot break out because the agressor would lose just doesn't withstand scrutiny. It's happened time and time again. And it WILL happen again. I do not know if it will happen with China. I never claimed to know. But you certainly cannot know that it will not. Hell, given how little knowledge of current events you've demonstrated, it's rather amazing that you think you can predict anything about the future.

But I see why your arguement is falling, it is because you fail to mention the US' interest ;)

Except, of course, that I did. In that very post you responded to. Let me quote myself to prove you the liar:

If, for example, Taiwan were to declare independence, that would threaten their interests. Our interest is in a stable, democratic Taiwan. At that point, our interests and their interests would collide

Really, when you want to claim that I didn't do something which I did do, at least have the sense to wait a few posts in the hopes that I might forget what I wrote. But this... amateur hour. Quite pathetic. You've really got to step up your game.
 
Really?
Really?

Or are you just trolling? Come now, be honest.

Just two names to be used by elite of people to sc***w up (can I say this in this forum? I do not want to be banned the first day I join) their own population.
Just tell the stupid majority that they are better than everybody else as they are born in Shanghai or Chicago, and the deal is done.
 
(can I say this in this forum? I do not want to be banned the first day I join)

The forum has an autocensor for most words that are considered unacceptable, which will simply replace the word with ****. Using tricks (such as substituting symbols or numbers for letters) to bypass the autocensor is a no-no, but using a word that the autocensor filters won't get you in trouble. And as long as what you're posting isn't really beyond the pale (like threats of violence or something illegal), then the moderators will issue a warning before they issue a suspension, and a suspension before they ban. So if you're at risk, you'll know it before you cross the line to to getting banned.

Just tell the stupid majority that they are better than everybody else as they are born in Shanghai or Chicago, and the deal is done.

That's a very narrow perspective. While I'm far from enamored with our political elite, our system of government is in fact radically different than China's. And the difference has very real, very significant impact on both populations. Only ignorance or willful blindness could prevent a person from seeing that.
 
The forum has an autocensor for most words that are considered unacceptable, which will simply replace the word with ****. Using tricks (such as substituting symbols or numbers for letters) to bypass the autocensor is a no-no, but using a word that the autocensor filters won't get you in trouble. And as long as what you're posting isn't really beyond the pale (like threats of violence or something illegal), then the moderators will issue a warning before they issue a suspension, and a suspension before they ban. So if you're at risk, you'll know it before you cross the line to to getting banned.

Thank you.
Just to check, the word I have written above is NOT against any rule, am I correct?
(I am still in time to change it, I guess)

That's a very narrow perspective. While I'm far from enamored with our political elite, our system of government is in fact radically different than China's. And the difference has very real, very significant impact on both populations. Only ignorance or willful blindness could prevent a person from seeing that.

You are talking like this as, I assume, you are an American (or Western) citizen.
In truth, the difference between China` s government and, say, the US government is not so much.
(I have visited and know people from both countries).
But this is my opinion, and I do not want to convince you.
 
Thank you.
Just to check, the word I have written above is NOT against any rule, am I correct?
(I am still in time to change it, I guess)

Assuming that the word you wanted to write was "screwed", then yes, it's fine.

You are talking like this as, I assume, you are an American (or Western) citizen.

Yes, I'm a US citizen. And?

In truth, the difference between China` s government and, say, the US government is not so much.
(I have visited and know people from both countries).
But this is my opinion, and I do not want to convince you.

Good thing you're not trying to convince me, because it's not convincing. I don't doubt that people from China are very similar to people from the US. But that wasn't my claim. My claim was that the governments were very different. And the differences are obvious and pervasive. One is a democracy, the other is a dictatorship. Since this is a message board, just consider China's restrictions on the internet. There simply isn't anything even remotely similar in the US. Basically the only thing you CAN'T post on the internet here is child pornography.
 

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