China creates video game simulating combat against US troops

[McHrozni]

The argument that china supports north korea to avoid having an economic competitor is particularly shaky. The popular theory as I understand it is that china wants north korea to be stable because it doesn't want millions of refugees flooding over it's border with north korea.

Prehaps, though it doesn't show much effort to get North Korea to change. It is possible they have more than one motive, however.

As for selling weapons to zimbabwe, america doesn't exactly have a perfect highground position to be arguing from. America has sold weapons to the muhajideen in afghanistan, to saddam hussein, libya, saudi arabia, and many more. And americas arms exports come to what, 6 times as much as chinas?

From the post you were replying to:
Red herring, even if it were true (and it's not). "America does worse anyway" is not an intelligent argument, it never was and it never will be. It's just an attempt to deflect attention away from the issue, and a pathetic one at that.

McHrozni

 

[rwguinn]

From a military standpoint, there is a huge difference between a "Threat" and an "Enemy"

 

[Trakar]

Damage control, they don't want to be seen as cooperating with the US, and they want to appear strong, lest they suffer an even greater insurrection.



You mean when you redefined the term "attacked a nuclear power" to include "having proxy fights with them"? Why would I respond to that? It's nonsense.

McHrozni

No, I mean the refutations of "no one attacks a nuclear power"

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

1.) It's wrong for any government to do this.
2.) It's not about the US being the "victim".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in China these things are state-owned, hence the government would be the only ones to fund these video games.
If any democratic government funds a video game as this, then we can say it sends the wrong message. BUT China isn't a democratic government.
Second thing to note, what would be the effect of a video game? Really, isn't there other tensions between the US & China more important than this? If the US government was to ban all video games depicting real countries wouldn't you all be now protesting about some freedom of speech or something?

Admit that if it was any other country set as the victim that we'd all be less offended by this video game.

 

[McHrozni]

No, I mean the refutations of "no one attacks a nuclear power"

Which you attempted by radically redefining what the term meant. It's quite evident that you can't defend your positions without logical fallacies and innuendos. You can keep your opinions if you want to, but you can't defend them. We're done here as far as I'm concerned.

McHrozni

 

[Ziggurat]

American foreign policy is the most arrogant of all countries, no contest. It claims the right to intervene militarily in countries throughout the world on flimsy pretexts. No other country even comes close.

You're evidently a subscriber to Spinoza's quote, “Blessed are the weak who think that they are good because they have no claws.” Because that, really, is the only actual difference. America has the capacity to intervene across the globe. Few other countries do. But plenty of countries can and do intervene militarily in the affairs of their neighbors.

Despite its (potential) power, China has no history of worldwide interventionism. It may intervene with its neighbours

And that makes it better? Under what logic?

The reason that China only intervenes with its neighbors is that they're the only ones it has the capacity to intervene with. But they're working hard to change that. You really think that once they have the capacity to intervene further abroad that they won't? You think the communist party of China is too principled?

 

[McHrozni]

You really think that once they have the capacity to intervene further abroad that they won't?

I would like to further this point and ask anyone who subscribes to that absurd notion to explain just why is China building an interventionist military capacity, if they have absolutely no intent to intervene abroad. Supply examples, please.

McHrozni

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

The reason that China only intervenes with its neighbors is that they're the only ones it has the capacity to intervene with. But they're working hard to change that. You really think that once they have the capacity to intervene further abroad that they won't? You think the communist party of China is too principled?

Paranoia?
All you've stated is allegations in the form of rhetorical questions.
one question: What reasoning are you using? seems to me your own. China displayed no history of wanting to dominate the world, they don't seem to be hinting it either.


I watched lots of Pinky & the Brain episodes, trust me, I'll know when someone is trying to take over the world

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

I would like to further this point and ask anyone who subscribes to that absurd notion to explain just why is China building an interventionist military capacity, if they have absolutely no intent to intervene abroad. Supply examples, please.

McHrozni

Are you saying they shouldn't?
I can check the military capacity of the US hmm those nuclear weapons look pretty much intended for use ..using the thought process that when something is there means it is intended for use?
Ok that was sarcasm.
Can I ask you a question now: How many troops does China have stationed outside their borders?

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

is this more about the US losing control & the paranoia that other countries are increasing in military? Who is the world's police? Should I be concern over an unproven notion of China's growing military on a world-take over march, or more concern that the US has hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in six continents? Is China so evil while the US is so holy that I should trust the US? Should we all start learning Chinese in the event that a take over is really eminent? Is the really about a video game?

 

[McHrozni]

Are you saying they shouldn't?

I'm not saying anything about it being justified or not. I'm asking you a question: why is China building an interventionist military capacity, if it doesn't ever intend to use it. Supply examples, please.

Should I be concern over an unproven notion of China's growing military on a world-take over march

Thus far you're the only one who ever mentioned it. I'm pretty sure that constitutes a straw man.

McHrozni

 

[IDB87]

An American accusing another country of arrogance? That's the biggest joke I heard in a long time.

A non-American criticizing American foreign policy? (let's all keep doing this until it becomes even more of a joke).

American foreign policy is the most arrogant of all countries, no contest. It claims the right to intervene militarily in countries throughout the world on flimsy pretexts. No other country even comes close.

Are you still on Latin America or..what would you be referring to? Also, is there a shelf life of your hatred for anything US or will it expire when you do?

I don't see China as a threat, unless it's made into one.

Was America always a 'threat' or were we made into one?

Despite its (potential) power, China has no history of worldwide interventionism.

This is irrelevant, really.

It may intervene with its neighbours, but it tends to focus on internal matters.

You mean like the suppression and persecution of the Falun Gong movement and their wonderful reeducation camps?

China was a major power before, it didn't attempt to dominate the world then either.

...When are you talking about? Imperial China?

On the other hand, if you poke him long enough even a peaceful dragon will become angry at you.

Oooh, rhetoric! How scary. We owe this wonderful dragon plenty of money, and if we don't pay, peaceful dragon will break our legs.

In other words, how are we 'poking' the dragon?

You know what's really sad? That you feel threatened by a country for no other reason than it could become more powerful than yours.

And because this super power has a terrible human rights record and has no compunction when it comes to killing and suppressing its' own population. Say what you will of America's involvement in Latin America, we don't kill our own.

Though it's somewhat understandable. When your country has been the most powerful for so long, the prospect of losing that position must seem frightening.

For so long? How long do you think, exactly? We were neck and neck with the soviets until the early 90s. Hasn't our reign as world tyrants been like...ten years?

 

[Ziggurat]

Paranoia?

There's nothing paranoid about it. All one needs to do is pay attention. They're pouring a lot of money into trying to expand their naval power, including getting an aircraft carrier and they're looking to build new overseas military bases. This isn't secret stuff. It's all publicly available information. It would be rather shocking if China wasn't trying to expand the reach of their military. I mean seriously, why wouldn't they? A country with COULD build global force projection capacities but doesn't isn't somehow nobler, it's just stupider.

And China isn't stupid.

one question: What reasoning are you using?

Common sense, actual events, and the words of the Chinese themselves.

China displayed no history of wanting to dominate the world, they don't seem to be hinting it either.

I never said anything about dominating the world. And of course they're not hinting at it. They can't dominate the world, so that's quite irrelevant. Both to me and to them, probably.

I watched lots of Pinky & the Brain episodes, trust me, I'll know when someone is trying to take over the world

Again, this isn't about taking over the world.

 

[IDB87]

What reasoning are you using? seems to me your own.

They're spending all that money on military hardware just for parades and the occasional rights movement that springs up.

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

You are insinuating that China should have a low military profile because of a believed threat a threat that you justify by saying "common sense".
Strong arming another country because you feel threatened by China's Military arm?
Why would China expand to outside it's borders, if not to dominate, then what?? They don't even have troops outside their border.
Do you not see that it is paranoia, and fear.

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

Common sense, actual events, and the words of the Chinese themselves.

I'd like to know the "words of the Chinese themselves" that you're hinting at. (keep in mind that these "words" must be in line with what you're saying)

 

[PhilosophicalCaveman]

So far the arguement is:
A) The game was made by China's government (governments shouldn't make military video games) and the game used an actual country (the US) as evil.
-Everything in China is state-owned, if this game was to be made, like any other game it will hence have to fall under the China's government (unless I'm mistaken)

B) China's growing military is hinting as a threat.
-Why? If the US is growing military & extending out of their borders, why shouldn't we all be concern about that instead? (seeing that they had no problem using their 2 nuclear bombs to flex their military arm, even some still justify it today)


Keep in mind that: Paranoia flamed by the media and carried as torches in the hands of simpletons can spark Wars.

 

[Ziggurat]

Common sense, actual events, and the words of the Chinese themselves.

I'd like to know the "words of the Chinese themselves" that you're hinting at. (keep in mind that these "words" must be in line with what you're saying)

An example was in my second link.

""(So) it is baseless to say that we will not set up any military bases in future because we have never sent troops abroad," an article published on Thursday at a Chinese government website said. "It is our right," the article said and went on to suggest that it would be done in the neighborhood, possibly Pakistan."

I'd like to know why you think China will NOT expand the reach of its military power, or intervene militarily in other countries.

 

[Ziggurat]

You are insinuating that China should have a low military profile because of a believed threat a threat that you justify by saying "common sense".

I've insinuated nothing of the sort. And "should" is rather irrelevant, because regardless of what I want, China's military profile WILL increase. I have, from the start, been speaking primarily about the way things are and will be. I've said very little about how I would like them to be, because that's got very little to do with anything. I'm well aware that the world will not shape itself to my desires. Are you?

Strong arming another country because you feel threatened by China's Military arm?

I've never advocated strong-arming China. Really, you need to start paying attention to what I actually write.

Why would China expand to outside it's borders, if not to dominate, then what??

First off, dominating a few countries or specific regions (which China already does) isn't equivalent to dominating the world. Secondly, can you really be so unaware of why China wants to extend its military influence? Again, this is publicly available information. China wants to expand its military influence overseas in order to secure supply lines to resources (like oil, for example) that it needs. Currently international shipping lanes are largely secured by the US navy. But since China thinks that it may come into conflict with the US (again, the biggest issue is Taiwan), they don't feel comfortable relying on us for that. This is an observation of reality. My desires for how things should be are rather irrelevant to that observation.

They don't even have troops outside their border.

Um... yes. Yes, they do. Really, you just keep showing how little you know about the subject.

Do you not see that it is paranoia, and fear.

What I see is that when I present facts, you can't refute or address them. And your only argument consists of pretending, with no evidence (and in direct contradiction to evidence), that China will not act like every major power acts in this regard.

 

[Ziggurat]

So far the arguement is:
A) The game was made by China's government (governments shouldn't make military video games) and the game used an actual country (the US) as evil.
-Everything in China is state-owned, if this game was to be made, like any other game it will hence have to fall under the China's government (unless I'm mistaken)

Everything in China is not state-owned. That's simply false. Furthermore, since I have little doubt that this post is addressed to me, I've said from the start that I don't think the game matters.

B) China's growing military is hinting as a threat.
-Why? If the US is growing military & extending out of their borders, why shouldn't we all be concern about that instead? (seeing that they had no problem using their 2 nuclear bombs to flex their military arm, even some still justify it today)

China's growing military power is a threat to us because they have interests which conflict with our interests. Quite simple, really. One need take no position AT ALL about the morality of either side, or have any preference AT ALL for how things should be, to recognize that this is still the reality we face.

As for why other people should or shouldn't be concerned about the US's power, well, who is this "we" you speak of? I have little doubt that the Chinese and Russians (for example) are concerned about the US's power. Our interests conflict with theirs. The Japanese, however, have interests which are aligned with ours. They have no reason to be concerned about US power, and in fact are far more likely to feel threatened by any decline in our power.

Keep in mind that: Paranoia flamed by the media and carried as torches in the hands of simpletons can spark Wars.

Keep in mind that in this conversation, you've been the one with consistently uninformed opinions about what's actually going on right now. You may not be paranoid, but if there's a simpleton here, well, it's not me.