Chemtrails nonsense

[MRC_Hans]

Those in my pic look to be about 30,000 feet. I've seen them much lower than that. No, I don't consider myself a to be a chemtrail nut.

Maybe not, but the notion of chemtrails is nuts.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

I remember my brother and I talking about them and he said they shouldn't be there at that altitude.

Condensation trails can form in all altitudes, from zero and up. However ..

At very low levels (like right on the runway), they are quickly mixed up and dispersed by the turbulent winds that always exist in the first thousand feet or so over Earth's surface.

At medium levels, the conditions where they will form are nearly always coincident with misty or cloudy weather, so we rarely see them.

The type of conditions where we will most often notice contrails is the type of high, blue sky where they stand out clearly.

Persistent contrails, that is contrails that stay visible for more than a few minutes, require some extra conditions:

- The steady, laminar airflow of high altitude (otherwise they will be dispersed).

- Just the right combination of temperature and moisture to allow the development of a string of convection cells. Convection cells are areas where warm air rise, pulling in more air with enough moisture in it, so the heat released by condensation can keep driving the convection. Exactly the same mechanism as a cumulus cloud. You can often see how a contrail turns into a bead-string of tiny cumulus clouds after a while.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

No, I really don't buy it but my brother is absolutely convinced. I got into an argument with him over this yesterday and it started with his supposed Morgollon's Syndrome. We both have a condition called Schamberg's Disease that can predispose you to T-cell lymphoma and diabetes. He already has diabetes but he's been getting lesions on his head and face the last 2 years and I suggested he get a biopsy done.......well he brushed me off with the Morgollon's and then got hostile when I pointed out that it was more likely the horse than the zebra, so to speak. I just worry about him neglecting himself. He is really weird about his health but then clinches on to this ridiculous Morgollon's Disease. I can't tell you how many times he pulls blue fibers off his skin to show me what's crawling on him......he sleeps with a blue blanket...I don't get it.

Sorry to hear about your brother's condition. However, con't get taken in by his ideas. That won't help him and it will harm you. That said, perhaps it is no use to discuss it with him. No need to poison the air between you with such stuff.

Morgollon's disease is mainly psychosomatic, so if your brother could be persuaded to seek professional help, it would be good. However, you may not be the one who can move him there. Perhaps there is someone else? Someone he respects and admires?

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Just saw the other post, thank you. I no longer think there is something wrong with contrails. Now how do I convince my brother that he doesn't have Morgollon's Syndrome?

But he might very well have. The symptoms you describe are spot on (google it). Which means that he needs psychiatric help.

Hans

 

[CORed]

No, and no.
Contrails, e.g., condensation trails, are not smoke - they are vapour condensation.
The explanation is in the name - otherwise they would be smoke trails.
You contradict yourself.
Car (infact any ICE powered vehicle) can and does leave streams of smoke in it's exhaust. This is more visible in diesel and badly tuned petrol cars, but they smoke nonetheless.

Yes, and airplanes (except small general aviation planes or very old ones) mostly burn jet fuel, which is in between gasoline(petrol) and diesel in molecular weight and also smoke production. You can sometimes see some smoke coming from jets at an airport (especially from planes taking off operating at or near full throttoe).

 

[EHocking]

Yes, and airplanes (except small general aviation planes or very old ones) mostly burn jet fuel, which is in between gasoline(petrol) and diesel in molecular weight and also smoke production. You can sometimes see some smoke coming from jets at an airport (especially from planes taking off operating at or near full throttoe).

And of course it depends on the engine type as well.

From the Contrail Science web page there is a photo (from a German study on the subject) of two planes at the same altitude. The A340 leaves a contrail and the 707 does not - different engines.

And there is a perfect example for Jodie below that, of a rocket launch photo that shows only a partial contrail as the rocket travels through moist air, and none in dry air.

That page also has very good examples of why you just can't estimate altitude of aircraft accurately from the ground too.
A very handy website, as it covers most of the bunk being discussed here - with references, not just blind assertions.

 

[Trebuchet]

Yes, and airplanes (except small general aviation planes or very old ones) mostly burn jet fuel, which is in between gasoline(petrol) and diesel in molecular weight and also smoke production. You can sometimes see some smoke coming from jets at an airport (especially from planes taking off operating at or near full throttoe).

And just to make sure we're clear, the "smoke" you see coming from cars on cold days and in airplane contrails isn't smoke. It's water, condensing from vapor produced by combustion. Unless you have a really bad engine.

 

[Jodie]

You avoided answering the question I see.

From this response, certainly c. seems to be the answer, i.e., your BiL picked that the lower contrails were at 5000ft from a photograph.

Utterly improbable. It is difficult to pick elevation of an object in a clear sky in the flesh, and utterly impossible to do from a photograph that has absolutely no other references (in the photograph) to gather information from

Are you then also asserting, that after he picked the altitude of the contrails that he also declared that they are chemtrails? Or are you merely attempting to back up your height assertion based on his "authority"?

Strictly based on his authority. I certainly can't tell by looking.

 

[Jodie]

But he might very well have. The symptoms you describe are spot on (google it). Which means that he needs psychiatric help.

Hans

I agree, I didn't realize how invested he was in this crap until I suggested a biopsy. It makes me really sad.

 

[Jodie]

Sorry to hear about your brother's condition. However, con't get taken in by his ideas. That won't help him and it will harm you. That said, perhaps it is no use to discuss it with him. No need to poison the air between you with such stuff.

Morgollon's disease is mainly psychosomatic, so if your brother could be persuaded to seek professional help, it would be good. However, you may not be the one who can move him there. Perhaps there is someone else? Someone he respects and admires?

Hans

It is psychosomatic, however, in his case we both have a genetic skin condition called Schambergs that is linked to Type II diabetes and makes you prone to T Cell lymphoma of the skin. I think the lesions are related to his non compliance with his diabetes but since we do have that predisposition, a biopsy wouldn't hurt. He is so resistant to the idea that he has a "real" disease condition. Denial with a capital "D".

 

[Cosmic Yak]

And of course it depends on the engine type as well.

From the Contrail Science web page there is a photo (from a German study on the subject) of two planes at the same altitude. The A340 leaves a contrail and the 707 does not - different engines.

And there is a perfect example for Jodie below that, of a rocket launch photo that shows only a partial contrail as the rocket travels through moist air, and none in dry air.

That page also has very good examples of why you just can't estimate altitude of aircraft accurately from the ground too.
A very handy website, as it covers most of the bunk being discussed here - with references, not just blind assertions.

I have linked to this page twice already.
Jodie- seriously, check it out. It has the answers to your questions.

 

[Jodie]

Thank you , I read it, it clarified the issue for me.

 

[EHocking]

I have linked to this page twice already.
Jodie- seriously, check it out. It has the answers to your questions.

Indeed it does.
Up until this point this excellent resource seemed to have been ignored, so I started quoting pages relevant to the individual post subjects - so that there were no "mistakes" on what was being discussed and refuted.

 

[fagin]

The NWO bastards are training birds to poison us now.

 

[Imhotep]

I miss the good old days of the water fluoridation conspiracy.

"A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice." Dr. Strangelove

 

[Belz...]

I served on two separate Nimitz Class aircraft carriers.

Are they as glorious in "person" as I think they are?

 

[Belz...]

Oh please. If it's happening I think it's being done with good intentions. I'm just not sure that it's a good thing in the long run for the environment.

What are you blabbering about? Please address what I actually said. There's no such thing as chemtrails.

Even so, sheets of condensed expended jet fuel in the atmosphere can't be a good thing.

That is irrelevant to your claim.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Are they as glorious in "person" as I think they are?

They are... impressive.

 

[CORed]

And just to make sure we're clear, the "smoke" you see coming from cars on cold days and in airplane contrails isn't smoke. It's water, condensing from vapor produced by combustion. Unless you have a really bad engine.

I have seen small amounts of black smoke coming from jet airplanes. This is not recent. I would not be surprised if newer planes burn cleaner. I'm talking about just barely enough to be visible, not something like you see coming out of a diesel truck at full throttle.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I have seen small amounts of black smoke coming from jet airplanes. This is not recent. I would not be surprised if newer planes burn cleaner. I'm talking about just barely enough to be visible, not something like you see coming out of a diesel truck at full throttle.

Older jets did tend to be smokier than modern models. The F-4 Phantom was a notoriously smoky aircraft (and loud as ****).